Powder for 40 MAJOR

[rr4406pak]

Two questions on this thread:

1. If you have an S_I gun you can load out to 1.20" max overall length correct? So if you have a round loaded out to 1.21" it will not feed? Should I load out to 1.18" to be safe? (I'm currently using 3.8gr of Titegroup under a 180gr plated bullet load to a 1.12" OAL).

2. So which Clays are we talking about?

It is not:

-International Clays

-Universal Clays

-Alliant Clays

So which Clays is it??????

Thanks.

Edited January 25, 2008 by rr4406pak

[yoshidaex]

So I assume the failure would be in the area just above where the ramp should be right?

Correct. Find a case that was fired from a 40 S&W glock, "glock bulge" would be due to not enough case support.

But what was mentioned was a "ramped" barrel "not" fully supported and this is where I get mixed up!!

Good question. When people talk of ramped or fully supported barrel, it usually refers to the same thing.

[yoshidaex]

Two questions on this thread:

1. If you have an S_I gun you can load out to 1.20" max overall length correct? So if you have a round loaded out to 1.21" it will not feed? Should I load out to 1.18" to be safe? (I'm currently using 3.8gr of Titegroup under a 180gr plated bullet load to a 1.12" OAL).

2. So which Clays are we talking about?

It is not:

-International Clays

-Universal Clays

-Alliant Clays

So which Clays is it??????

Thanks.

1. It depends if your barrel is throated to accept the 1.200 oal and longer rounds. Load a 1.200 oal round and using your barrel like a case gauge, drop the round in. If its flush with the rear of the barrel hood, you're good to go. If not, you can get the barrel throated to accept longer rounds or just load your rounds to a length that will fit the barrel. I've heard of people loading 40 all the way out to 1.260 oal. If it fits in your magazine and feeds with no issues, more power to you. Running a longer oal will require a bit more powder to be used to meet a specific PF/velocity. Loading long helps with feeding in some types of guns and gives you a bit of a safety margin if you decide to use fast powders.

2. Plain hodgdon clays and hodgdon Universal clays is whats being referred to. If you're a beginner reloader, i'd suggest some other powder other than plain clays. Plain clays has a very narrow safety margin.

[kevin c]

Hey thanks for the links. So I assume the failure would be in the area just above where the ramp should be right?

But what was mentioned was a "ramped" barrel "not" fully supported and this is where I get mixed up!!

Sorry about that. I wasn't very clear.

Many if not most bbls are ramped to improve feeding. Often the chambered round will have a small area on the side of the case left exposed by the ramp's cut into the chamber, which, if it extends deep into the chamber, does not support the case against expansion during firing as much as the rest of the chamber. Some chambers have deliberately deep ramps - that is my personal experience with the 9mm Beretta 92FS, the .40 Taurus, which is a Beretta clone, and Glocks. This is considered safe by the manufacturers with SAAMI/Nato spec ammo - the brass may be bulged on one side, but the gun fires safely. The problem comes with potentially very high pressure handloads, and the short loaded round I'd made was likely pretty close to being a bomb (being short 65 thousandths is a LOT).

Regular spec ammo can blow up a gun with a chamber that is inadvertently undersupported. This happens with home smithing where somebody decides to "improve" the feeding by taking down the ramp radius. Kaboom...

[BOGA]

VV N330 and 200 HAP for me

[Shay1911]

In my Witness Elite Limited 40 I run..

4.6 Clays

180gr Zero JHP

OAL: 1.170

Usually around 169 PF.

Leo

Similar new load here in CZ Tac Sport

4.4 Clays

180gr Zero FMJ

OAL: 1.172

Around 168 PF.

[ebg3]

Two questions on this thread:

1. If you have an S_I gun you can load out to 1.20" max overall length correct? So if you have a round loaded out to 1.21" it will not feed? Should I load out to 1.18" to be safe? (I'm currently using 3.8gr of Titegroup under a 180gr plated bullet load to a 1.12" OAL).

2. So which Clays are we talking about?

It is not:

-International Clays

-Universal Clays

-Alliant Clays

So which Clays is it??????

Thanks.

The Alliant powder is called Clay Dot. I suspect it is similar to Hodgdon Clays.

[revchuck]

In my Witness Elite Limited 40 I run..

4.6 Clays

180gr Zero JHP

OAL: 1.170

Usually around 169 PF.

Leo

Similar new load here in CZ Tac Sport

4.4 Clays

180gr Zero FMJ

OAL: 1.172

Around 168 PF.

Guys - FWIW, you probably already know this, but the book max for Clays and 180s is 3.5 grains, albeit at 1.125" OAL. I know long loading gives you a little fudge factor, but 30%+ over max? Y'all are big boys, though.

[Shay1911]

In my Witness Elite Limited 40 I run..

4.6 Clays

180gr Zero JHP

OAL: 1.170

Usually around 169 PF.

Leo

Similar new load here in CZ Tac Sport

4.4 Clays

180gr Zero FMJ

OAL: 1.172

Around 168 PF.

Guys - FWIW, you probably already know this, but the book max for Clays and 180s is 3.5 grains, albeit at 1.125" OAL. I know long loading gives you a little fudge factor, but 30%+ over max? Y'all are big boys, though.

I used this calculator to estimate the difference in pressure when you vary the bullet profile and the OAL : http://kwk.us/powley.html

I was loading very compact flat point bullets, so they took less space inside the case. It makes a big difference in the calculation.

I did not see any pressure signs at all on the spent cases.

FWIW, I dont care for that load anymore. It was not accurate enough for me and there was too much variance between rounds. I switched back to Ramshot Comp.

I do appreciate the concern, we all need to be reminded to be safe.

[DougCarden]

FWIW.....tonight indoor range with Chrono set up. Load was 4.8gr Solo 1000, 1.200 OAL 180 LFP Wolf small pistol primer.

low 926 Hi 960 avg 946 did this twice with time in between. Absolutely NO pressure signs. Load was not discernable between VV320 load and this one. I also shot some 200s I had loaded up with INTL Clays...really soft 170PF load....couldnt tell the difference.

Load went into one hole off bench at 12yds and did a 1.5inch group several times at 18 yds with my 5in Schueman barrel.

I found my new practice/ local match load......WOO HOO....Thanks Carlos for the nod...for the primers and the powder....

See ya,

DougC

[bigsaxdog]

OAL : http://kwk.us/powley.html very cool link, thanx.........

[politegunner]

I'm thinking about switching to V-V N320 for a 165jhp load making major. I haven't got the latest data from V-V, but what I've got from their 'site ('06), shows a max of 5.7gr giving a veloc of 1103 fps, thus a pf of 182. Meanwhile back in the REAL world, I'm running a g22 with a KKM barrel so I'm thinking VVN320 may be just the ticket with a charge of 5.5 or so. I'm really liking what I read here concerning low flash and clean burn. Big plus also is no k-b issues due to slight fluctuation in OAL.

[AustinMike]

Maybe I got a slow one, but my KKM in barrel in my G22 runs considerably slower than factory barrels. I haven't tried 165gr. bullets, but with 180gr. FMJ I wasn't hitting major with 4.4gr. of N320. I decided not to push it further in a Glock with the shortish OAL. I'm still happy with Power Pistol myself. It's only slightly more felt recoil than the faster powders to me. I was worried about the muzzle flash I kept hearing about, but after shooting the cave stage at Double Tap this year and having one of my best runs of the match I'm wondering what everybody complains about. I didn't think it was bad at all.

[BBoyd]

I use Winchester Super Field (WSF) with a 180 grain jacketed bullet.

However, I just read an article in Gun World magazine on loading the .40 and the author found the

155 and 165 grain bullets to have better accuracy.

the article shows the 155 mont gold with 8.8 grains of Silhouette to have been the most accurate with a .835 group at

1,205 velocity.

check out the may issue of gun world. i may switch to a lighter bullet.

[Shay1911]

I use Winchester Super Field (WSF) with a 180 grain jacketed bullet.

However, I just read an article in Gun World magazine on loading the .40 and the author found the

155 and 165 grain bullets to have better accuracy.

the article shows the 155 mont gold with 8.8 grains of Silhouette to have been the most accurate with a .835 group at

1,205 velocity.

check out the may issue of gun world. i may switch to a lighter bullet.

8.8? That sounds very hot.

http://www.ramshot.com/powders/loadguide/Ramshot_V4.2.2.pdf

Don't get me wrong, I like 165 with Sil.

[Albert]

Shay1911, would you share your 165gr/Ramshot Sillouette recipe? Is that through a CZ Tactical Sport?

I've been using N320 with a 180gr FMJ, but I have some 165gr that I've been planning to work up with N310, just haven't had the time. if there is a better & more economical powder that would push a 165gr JHP to make major I'd be all over that.

Recently I tried a 124gr w/Sillouette out of an SP-01 and the fiber optic on the SP-01 snapped back so fast it has me considering buying Sillouette in bulk.

[kgunz11]

tagged for later

[Shay1911]

Recently I tried a 124gr w/Sillouette out of an SP-01 and the fiber optic on the SP-01 snapped back so fast it has me considering buying Sillouette in bulk.

Exactly my feelings:)

165 with Sil was a bit too snappy for me, but front sight snaps back super fast. Last time I chronoed the TS, I needed 6.4 to make major with Sil.

I much prefer the Ramshot Competition with the 165's. I load 4.9 and it gives me 170PF. Its clean, consistent and cheap. If you like the 320, you wont notice any difference with Competition. At least I don't.

I load 4.5 Comp with 180's for the TS. I do prefer 165's with that gun, comes back super fast.

Hope this helps...

[rr4406pak]

BBoyd,

Can you elaborate on why/how Gun World determined the 180gf bullet inferior to the 165 & 155gr with regards to accuracy?

Thanks

Edited May 13, 2008 by rr4406pak

[Albert]

Thanks Shay1911. I went through 4 lbs of Ramshot Competition with 180gr Master Blaster bullets and they created too much smoke and I started to develop other problems with those loads trying to find a balance that worked. I think I found the ceiling/threshold for Competition and pushed it up to 4.9 grains but was still having issues making major powerfactor.

I think I'll try it again with the 165s. It's too bad no one sells it locally.

I bought a bunch of 320, but I might try the Competition again with 180 JHPs .

Anybody have an newer update on E3? I've only remember 1 post in this thread mentioning it was too dirty.

Edited May 13, 2008 by Albert

[Bergie]

I've used Titegroup for many years in my Limited .40.

I have been wanting to start using a new powder and get away from Titegroup.

I decided to go with Solo 1000.

I am using a 180 Magtech RNF jacketed bullet, Winchester small rifle primer in my 5" SV with Schuemann barrel.

I shot Titegroup with this same bullet and made 169 PF using 4.7 grains at 1.20 OAL.

I didn't know exactly where to start with Solo 1000 but I read things that made me start at 4.1 grains so I wouldn't take the chance of blowing up my gun.

4.1 grains only gave me 760pfs

I kept on creeping up until I finally reached major with 5.3 grains, 940 pfs avg and 169 PF.

It is a very nice load to shoot. Not as much felt recoil and much less smoky than Titegroup. No pressure signs on the spent primers.

My gun also doesn't feel like it's on fire after I shoot 100 rounds in practice.

I still have some Titegroup but I will only use it for practrice ammo.

Have not tried the Solo 1000 with the Precision black bullets yet but I will be interested to try it.

Titegroup is extremely smoky with black bullets.

So far I am very happy with my new Solo 1000 load.

[Glen517]

Now I'm no expert. I'll just tell you from my experance I've used both titegroup and vv320 both feel the same to me as far as recoil they both load about the same grains for the same pf in my guns. That being said I have used mostly vv320. Mainly due to vv320 being much cleaner. I load 180 gr zero JHP's 4.7gr of 320 1.150 oal winchester cases and federal primers. The load makes major in both my STI and XD never move a thing on my press. Over the last 3 years I have shot many matches and had them cronoed from Fla. to Tulsa to Wis. to Pa. and everyplace in between haven't failed to make major yet. Always crono between 169 and 171 very stable load and a joy to shoot. I hope that helped you out a bit.

[JDBraddy]

I have never loaded .40 before, but I have a new SV Sight Tracker comming the end of June or first week in July. I just bought Dillon .40 dies and calibre quick change kit for my 550b, and have always had best results in non-comped guns using heavy bullets and fast powders. I plan on using trying Solo-1000 first. I've used it for years in my 12g loads and .45 ACP. So I already buy the stuff in 25 pound kegs. In my series 70 Goldcup, 4.6gr behind a Precision 230gr RNF loaded to 1.250 OAL makes 169 power factor. Once my new SV arrives, I plan to start around 4.5gr behind a 180-200gr bullet loaded to 1.200 OAL and slowly work up using my Chronograph as a guide, and watching for pressure sign. If this powder performs as well for me in .40 as it has in .45, then I'll be a very happy camper.

Edited June 8, 2008 by JDBraddy

[Sparky]

I shoot 200 gr Zero's and have tried Clays, VVn320 and WST. I didn't like the pressure with Clays and n320

became hard to get for a period of time and so I switched to WST about 3 years ago and have not had a

problem. I load 4.5 gr of WST, 200 gr Zero, 1.200 length.

[mwx40x40]

In my Witness Elite Limited 40 I run..

4.6 Clays

180gr Zero JHP

OAL: 1.170

Usually around 169 PF.

Leo

Similar new load here in CZ Tac Sport

4.4 Clays

180gr Zero FMJ

OAL: 1.172

Around 168 PF.

Guys - FWIW, you probably already know this, but the book max for Clays and 180s is 3.5 grains, albeit at 1.125" OAL. I know long loading gives you a little fudge factor, but 30%+ over max? Y'all are big boys, though.

FWIW, it depends on which book you look at. I know Hogdon has 3.5 , but check out Lee and Sierra