New to open, someone coach me

[Jeff686]

Alright, I know this is a wide open question. What should I see and feel as I develop a load for my new open gun.

My new guns is a Tanfoglio Gold Team in 38 super, with ports and a comp.

I know that preferences may be different from person to person, but what is the end-goal for load development? How much dot motion is reasonable and how much is too much? What should it feel like?

During the process, what should I be looking for, and what should I change to achieve better results.

For example, when should I consider going up or down in bullet weight? When should I consider changing springs?

Educate me...

[Neomet]

If it were me, and it will be soon enough , I would just slap a RN 124 CMJ on top of 7.5 of 7625, use a 10 pound spring and shoot 5,000 rounds before I did anything. Not even sure I would do anything after the first 5,000. I used to race and learned the painful lesson of changing things "to make it better". My time would have been better spent working on my driver skills rather than figuring out a way to save 16 ounces of unsprung weight. JMHO and I am sure you are going to love the new pistola and the process of learning it.

edited to add the obligatory warning that the load stated is just what I would use, not a recommendation or endorsement. May cause your hair to catch on fire, eczema, hemmoriods, or increased desire to sing at karaoke bars.

Edited January 12, 2008 by Neomet

[Jeff686]

If it were me, and it will be soon enough , I would just slap a RN 124 CMJ on top of 7.5 of 7625, use a 10 pound spring and shoot 5,000 rounds before I did anything. Not even sure I would do anything after the first 5,000. I used to race and learned the painful lesson of changing things "to make it better". My time would have been better spent working on my driver skills rather than figuring out a way to save 16 ounces of unsprung weight. JMHO and I am sure you are going to love the new pistola and the process of learning it.

Well, I'm not far off from your suggestion. I don't mind picking something and going with it for a while, but want to pick something reasonable.

I'm running RN 124 plated with 7.3 of 7625. I tried it today, and thought there was still considerable muzzle climb. The dot would dissapear off the top of the window.

Will adding another 0.2 grains make much of a difference? I thought maybe I should go to the 121gr recipe that Henning uses, which is very similar to the 124gr load. Will removing 3gr of bullet weight change things significantly?

[Neomet]

You are going to need more gas if you run 121s. Might make the comp work better also. Not sure how much more (someone can probably chime in here with that info) but I would guess 7.8 or so???

[BSeevers]

Well I have put a lot of Open rds downrange(500K) and I have no idea how high my dot goes. I can tell you exact splits at almost every situation and distance that I can do.

You do need a consistant dot tracking since that's how you shoot fast and accurate. Most of that is your grip and stance.

I shoot the sight since no matter what it does, cause standing upright and shooting in practice leads to a different recoil mgt and sight picture challenge than shooting on one foot leaning over, at a mover in an Area match.

I think you need a good load combination but the advice to pick one and practice makes more sense to me.

[R.Elliott]

7625 is a fairly fast powder, and I found that with my gun (same as yours) it seems to like slower powders better. I found the gun a bit bouncy with the faster stuff. I had a crap-load of 4746 on hand when the gun arrived, tried some 3N37, HS-6 and N-350. So far I think I like 4756 best. Very flat shooting. 3N37 provided quite a spectacular light show though. My eyebrows are coming back in nicely now........

You won't notice much of a difference shooting 121's over 124's, if any. Just pick something you can get plenty of easily and practice like crazy.

[jostein jensen]

Make sure your start load makes Major!

When I started with my IMM I poured 7,5gr of 3N38 below a 124gr MG JHP and was going to shoot that 5k rounds to find out how it felt and what I liked.

The dot was predictable, a bit muzzle rise, and the gun felt soooo nice and soft!

Chronoed at 154.....

Yeah no wonder it was soft... Needed 9,1 to make 167.5. Got accustomed to it over a couple hundred rounds and the blast wasn't noticed anymore, I could hold my eyes open due to double plugging, and the dot track was predictable. Not flat, but straight up and down.

There might be a lot of grip errors involved in dot tracking, so don't sweat it if it has a little flip to start with. You'll work it out down the road!

Welcome to the dark side!

[HSMITH]

I agree with JJ and BSeevers, get a real major load and shoot it. It will make you a better shooter where weeks over the chronograph only shrink your wallet. Once you KNOW what the gun does switch it up a little, try a different powder, a light bullet or something else.

I made the mistake/choice of trying a bunch of different powders, bullets and on and on. I put 2000 rounds over the chronograph in the first 2 months I had an Open gun. You know what I had when I was done with that? Data, data that applied to NOTHING but power factor. Just data. I am back to the number two load I tried as my primary load that I will shoot for ANYTHING important at all and number three load I tried as secondary load that will cover everything else I don't need my primary load for. The difference in performance between the two? Not much if any, the real difference is the powder in my secondary load is half the cost of the powder in my primary load.

[Flexmoney]

I'll pile on...

SHOOT THAT TOOL !!!

Get to the range and work through Matt Burkett's timing drills (posted on his webiste). That should help you discover a grip and stance that match up with your gear.

[boz1911]

Also new to open. I plan on loading something to 170PF and shoot it. Ordered bullets and powder in bulk, so I'm commited for a while at least. I searched the forum for powder/bullet suggestions (there are many) and decided on one. From what I gather the combinations are endless. The main issue I see is brass for the 38SC. Anyone got suggestions on where to buy, find, etc??

[G-ManBart]

Also new to open. I plan on loading something to 170PF and shoot it. Ordered bullets and powder in bulk, so I'm commited for a while at least. I searched the forum for powder/bullet suggestions (there are many) and decided on one. From what I gather the combinations are endless. The main issue I see is brass for the 38SC. Anyone got suggestions on where to buy, find, etc??

Starline 38SC brass works really well. You can buy it direct from them, but other sources sell it as well. I'm not sure if anyone has better prices, but I haven't searched in a while...maybe save a few bucks that way.

[Matt P.]

Angus has VERY good prices on Starline 38SC www.ghostholster.com

[dansy]

You shouldn't load for dot movement just get a major PF over the chrono....with my Dawson 2 holes big comp.....I found that to get major in a confortable fashion...the gun was jumpy and harsh and the primer were not pretty.....I'm now using 4756 and it's much better....or when available I shoot 3n38.

[Neomet]

Angus has VERY good prices on Starline 38SC www.ghostholster.com

Fine... tell me the day after I order 2,000 somewhere else. Funny, I spend enough time on his site and I never looked to check out his brass prices. Dang good!

[LeoHallak]

In my Gold team I have always favored 7625 with the 124/125 zeros. I didn't like how the gun felt with slower powders or lighter bullets. I have yet to try 121 yet though.

The more you shoot it the less the dot will move as you get used to it.

Leo

[boz1911]

Thanks everybody for the brass info. My initial load will be 121 grain Montana IFP over "X" amount of 4756. Col will be 1.250. All this out of a Bedell full size 38SC gun. Ang suggestions the amount of "X"? I'm thing a starting load of 8.0 and work up a tenth at a time. Do I need to start at with a higher number? Looking for 170-172PF, I think??

[dansy]

While I like the 4756 in both our Bedells KKM Barrels we load at 8.2 gr with a 124 MG JHP in Starline SC and Federal Small Pistol Magnum primer at 1.230" AOL.

One note about the IMR 4756 I do find differences between LOTS of powder, I usually acquire 20lbs at the time so I don't have to chrono too much (and free shipping) but my load has been from 8.2 to 8.4 gr for the same Power Factor about 170'ish,

[Ace38super]

Thanks everybody for the brass info. My initial load will be 121 grain Montana IFP over "X" amount of 4756. Col will be 1.250. All this out of a Bedell full size 38SC gun. Ang suggestions the amount of "X"? I'm thing a starting load of 8.0 and work up a tenth at a time. Do I need to start at with a higher number? Looking for 170-172PF, I think??

I have a Brazos 5" Super with Poppelholes and use the 125 Zero jhp or 125 Hornady HAP. 4756 works great and my summer load is 8.8 at an OAL of 1.235 (Zero) or 1.240 (Hornady). The thing about 4756 is the temp sensitivity. I will be using 8.4 this weekend (outside temp around 0) and I know the power factor will be as high or higher than 8.8 in the summer. 4756 seems to get hotter around 50ish and lower temps. You really need to chrono at the temps you will be seeing. Starting at 8.0 sounds good.

[Jeff686]

I just tested some SP2 at lunchtime. Wow, that stuff really barks compared to the 7625. I can tell it works the comp better, but I think I started flinching!! Shooting 158pf of SP2 was more uncomfortable than 173pf of 7625. What do you guys do, wear plugs and muffs?

Is that common for other powders of similar speed? I was going to try some Longshot or 3N37(8). Maybe I'll stick with the 7625 while I get used to Open Division.

Edit: I was using 124gr bullets. Would the 7625 work the comp better with a lighter bullet?

Edited January 23, 2008 by Jeff686

[dansy]

I found the 7625 somewhat pressure sensitive.....meaning the pressure can increase very rapidly, it might be on the edge with 115gr.

Indoor I do double plugs, outdoor normaly only my plugs but depending on the situation I sometime double plugs..

I would shoot SP2 if I could get it here.....

[al503]

I just tested some SP2 at lunchtime. Wow, that stuff really barks compared to the 7625. I can tell it works the comp better, but I think I started flinching!! Shooting 158pf of SP2 was more uncomfortable than 173pf of 7625.

Jeff, try bumping up the charge weight and get the PF around +-170. That's when you'll get the most out of your comp. Whether it gets louder or not won't matter as you'll see how flat it shoots when you're making major.

[boz1911]

Thanks everybody for the brass info. My initial load will be 121 grain Montana IFP over "X" amount of 4756. Col will be 1.250. All this out of a Bedell full size 38SC gun. Ang suggestions the amount of "X"? I'm thing a starting load of 8.0 and work up a tenth at a time. Do I need to start at with a higher number? Looking for 170-172PF, I think??

I have a Brazos 5" Super with Poppelholes and use the 125 Zero jhp or 125 Hornady HAP. 4756 works great and my summer load is 8.8 at an OAL of 1.235 (Zero) or 1.240 (Hornady). The thing about 4756 is the temp sensitivity. I will be using 8.4 this weekend (outside temp around 0) and I know the power factor will be as high or higher than 8.8 in the summer. 4756 seems to get hotter around 50ish and lower temps. You really need to chrono at the temps you will be seeing. Starting at 8.0 sounds good.

I was able to make major at 8.4 grains but 8.6 gave me a 172 comfortable power factor. I was very impressed with the consistent speed numbers. Hell within 10 rounds I knew what it was going to take to make major. I will verify speed changes with temperature changes as time goes on. Thanks for the info guys, saved me a lot of ammo at the chrono!

[Jeff686]

I just tested some SP2 at lunchtime. Wow, that stuff really barks compared to the 7625. I can tell it works the comp better, but I think I started flinching!! Shooting 158pf of SP2 was more uncomfortable than 173pf of 7625.

Jeff, try bumping up the charge weight and get the PF around +-170. That's when you'll get the most out of your comp. Whether it gets louder or not won't matter as you'll see how flat it shoots when you're making major.

I ran it up to 10gr of SP2. That gave me about 168pf. It's just that the bark is loud. I really did start flinching (at the noise, not during the trigger pull). It doesn't matter how flat it shoots if I can't keep my eyes open!!

I'll juice it up a little more and try it again. Maybe I'll get used to it.

[Neomet]

I'd doubleplug even outdoors. Hell, I'd doubleplug while I was reloading between stages. If I could turn off all sound after I hear the buzzer and until I fired my last shot I would do it.