Bagging vs. Holstering

[HoMiE]

From another post...."I had a shooter who wanted to go right from shooting to bagging without holstering because he said his holster didn't hold the gun securely, I told him that range commands required that he holster the gun to finish the COF. Once he took his hand off the gun I allowed him to bag, as he left the firing position his father threw the rule book in his face and told him that if he wanted to keep shooting then he had better read the rules."

2004 USPSA - 8.3.7.3 If the gun proves to be clear, the competitor must holster his

handgun. Once the competitor’s hands are clear of the holstered

handgun, the course of fire is deemed to have ended.

2008 USPSA 8.3.7.3 If the gun proves to be clear, the competitor must holster his

handgun.

Based on this rule change, starting Jan. 1, 2008 I would say it is OK to bag your gun at the end of course. What say you?

[Chris Keen]

Sure, why not ? Some folks come to the line already bagged. Then they shoot, and UASC, and holster the gun for the duration of the day.

[Lexor40cal]

The rules ('04 or '08) do not stop you from bagging straight after a COF, they may read "holster", but you have to understand that bagging is just as safe, if not more safe than holstering.

The competitor can keep the gun out and bag it, the rules do not preclude the bagging of a gun?

"Range is Clear" is the end of the COF, if the gun is holstered or placed in a bag?

From another post...."I had a shooter who wanted to go right from shooting to bagging without holstering because he said his holster didn't hold the gun securely, I told him that range commands required that he holster the gun to finish the COF. Once he took his hand off the gun I allowed him to bag, as he left the firing position his father threw the rule book in his face and told him that if he wanted to keep shooting then he had better read the rules."

2004 USPSA - 8.3.7.3 If the gun proves to be clear, the competitor must holster his

handgun. Once the competitor’s hands are clear of the holstered

handgun, the course of fire is deemed to have ended.

2008 USPSA 8.3.7.3 If the gun proves to be clear, the competitor must holster his

handgun.

Based on this rule change, starting Jan. 1, 2008 I would say it is OK to bag your gun at the end of course. What say you?

[Chris Keen]

Range is Clear ............. IS NOT the end of a COF.

Removing your hand from said gun is ........... whether it's in a holster or a bag, makes no difference

[mscott]

A local guy bags in between stages due to back problems. He says the weight of the gun and mags gets real bothersome by the end of the match if he doesn't take them off. It has never proved to be a problem that I am aware of. He does holster when finished and then bags up. I don't see a problem in the rules, but if the guys holster is that much of a POS it might be a safety issue.

[HoMiE]

Range is Clear ............. IS NOT the end of a COF.

Removing your hand from said gun is ........... whether it's in a holster or a bag, makes no difference

2004 Rules, 8.3.7.3 Once the competitor’s hands are clear of the holstered handgun, the course of fire is deemed to have ended.

2008 Rules, 8.3.8 “Range Is Clear” – This declaration signifies the end of the Course of fire.

[Chris Keen]

Tomatoe .... Tomato

[warpspeed]

I have always preferred bagging to holstering but it usually requires the RO or someone elseto hold the bag during the CoF.

[Coolduckboy]

On my last stage of 2007 Nationals Open/L10 I got the Rule book thrown at me, (Yes it was thrown at me), Because they told me that the COF doesn't end until my gun is holstered and my hand is off of it, Then i could bag my gun if need be. The whole rest of the match i told the RO's, including this one, that i would like to bag afterwards and they were compliant but I think it was totally rediculous that they had to be A$$holes about it.

I probably didn't help much since I said that It was either bag and then they (3 of them) Told me exclusively holster only and it was a courtisy that RO's let you bag after the CoF. I believe that if you Bag/Holster your weapon in a safe manner that, that procedure ends the CoF.

[Kingman]

To me part of the match is the fact that we carry our equipment with us. To bag a gun every time and unbag eats up time. You must go get your bag at the end of a COF or have someone else bring it down.

If someone claims there holster is not secure then that is a problem.

I would further agree based on the rules holstered is pretty clear.

[Coolduckboy]

It isn't that much of an inconvience for an RO to carry a bag. They need to get off their high horse if they get offended to carry a small bag.

Plus i can take just as much time if i have my bagged or not.

my .04 cents. i am done.

[Alan Meek]

It isn't that much of an inconvience for an RO to carry a bag. They need to get off their high horse if they get offended to carry a small bag.

Plus i can take just as much time if i have my bagged or not.

my .04 cents. i am done.

Which RO do you have carry the bag?

[Micah]

I had a shooter who wanted to go right from shooting to bagging without holstering because he said his holster didn't hold the gun securely...

This concerns me more than anything else...

[BSeevers]

It isn't that much of an inconvience for an RO to carry a bag. They need to get off their high horse if they get offended to carry a small bag.

Plus i can take just as much time if i have my bagged or not.

my .04 cents. i am done.

Which RO do you have carry the bag?

None.

RO's are there to ensure safety and assist the shooter through the course of fire. I don't think assisting or proper Ro-ing involves carrying bags.

Edited December 16, 2007 by BSeevers

[ChuckS]

Range is Clear ............. IS NOT the end of a COF.

Removing your hand from said gun is ........... whether it's in a holster or a bag, makes no difference

Next year it is:

8.3.8 “Range Is Clear” – This declaration signifies the end of the Course of

fire. Once the declaration is made, officials and competitors may move

forward to score, patch, reset targets etc.

[ChuckS]

Holster does not hold the gun securely? If a holster is "related equipment" then I think it is covered:

5.1.6 Handguns must be serviceable and safe. Range Officers may demand

examination of a competitor’s handgun or related equipment, at any time,

to check they are functioning safely. If any such item is declared unserviceable

or unsafe by a Range Officer, it must be withdrawn from the

match until the item is repaired to the satisfaction of the Range Master.

[Alan Meek]

Holster does not hold the gun securely? If a holster is "related equipment" then I think it is covered:

5.1.6 Handguns must be serviceable and safe. Range Officers may demand

examination of a competitor’s handgun or related equipment, at any time,

to check they are functioning safely. If any such item is declared unserviceable

or unsafe by a Range Officer, it must be withdrawn from the

match until the item is repaired to the satisfaction of the Range Master.

Thread Drift........

Chuck your avatar........

There are no words

[flyingchange]

It isn't that much of an inconvience for an RO to carry a bag. They need to get off their high horse if they get offended to carry a small bag.

Plus i can take just as much time if i have my bagged or not.

my .04 cents. i am done.

Which RO do you have carry the bag?

None.

RO's are there to ensure safety and assist the shooter through the course of fire. I don't think assisting or proper Ro-ing involves carrying bags.

+1

When I'm ROing, I don't have a problem with a shooter bagging after his COF (I do it myself when I'm doing stats for a match I'm also shooting), but he should get a squadmate to hand the bag to him or something.

[Chris Keen]

I liked the Vibra-Prime avatar better

[Joe4d]

Holster does not hold the gun securely? If a holster is "related equipment" then I think it is covered:

5.1.6 Handguns must be serviceable and safe. Range Officers may demand

examination of a competitor’s handgun or related equipment, at any time,

to check they are functioning safely. If any such item is declared unserviceable

or unsafe by a Range Officer, it must be withdrawn from the

match until the item is repaired to the satisfaction of the Range Master.

I agree sounds like a DQ for unsafe equipment or at least until he gets it fixed or can borrow a replacement. It amazes me how people can read into or make up there own definition for a simple sentence. Rule book says to holster. No ifs and or buts. How can this sentence be translated to anything else ? Whether it is just as safe isnt relevant. Whether you agree or not isnt relevant. You enter a match you agree to follow the rules. If you dont like it dont shoot. Petition the leadership to change or clarify the rule. But dont pick and choose which rules apply or which rules only apply to everyone else.

Sounds like a prima donna issue to me. As these are usually the people that are nowhere to be found when it is time to tape and reset, and have no qualms about taking forever getting ready.

[ima45dv8]

Joe, 5.1.6 is not a DQ for unsafe equipment. It says the item, not the shooter, is withdrawn.

Now if someone tried to continue with a piece of equipment declared unsafe by an RO, that would be a "bus ticket".

[HoMiE]

I posed this question becasue I have never come across anyone saying holster first, then you may bag. Once I looked up the rule, 2004 version, I could see that the CoF ends when gun is holstered and hand is clear. Then looking at the 2008 version, same requirement of holstering, but what if I wanted to bag. Is the RO going to follow the strict wording and not allow me or anyone else to bag? Most of the shooters I see come to the line and end the course by bagging/unbagging. Bagging is almost a requirement when you shoot where it rains or snows, even dusty conditions.

[ChuckS]

Thread Drift........

Chuck your avatar........

There are no words

I liked the Vibra-Prime avatar better

This one has yet to be noticed by a certain individual. I was inspired by the Spoiling My Surprises thread.

Edited December 16, 2007 by ChuckS

[ima45dv8]

I've never had a problem with a shooter who wanted to finish the stage by bagging. There is usually a good reason they need to do it, and as long as it's done safely, no problem for me.

And I have carried more than a few gun rugs along with the timer so people could bag when finished.

[mactiger]

Bagging instead of holstering is acceptable. As the RO, or the RM, I would not expect the range officers to carry your bag for you, but if someone brought it up for you, that would be fine. Bag or Holster, in 2008, the COF ends with "Range is Clear". This question comes up in RO seminars, and the answer is the same: bagging is identical to holstering once the competitor is done.

Troy