Browning Hi-Power Trigger Job

[Bill Nesbitt]

Butch, what kind of accuracy are you looking for? Are you shooting groups, shooting bullseye targets or shooting IPSC/IDPA style targets for fun? That will give us a better idea what you want. It looks like you want a single action autoloader in 9mm.

I have seen 9mm 1911 autos that work just fine.

PM me with the names of your gunsmiths. Maybe I coild steer you toward somebody.

Stock 1911s in 9mm seem to be hit or miss as far as working well.

[ButchW]

I have 2 separate gunsmith who told me flat out don't ever thing about 9mm in 1911 unless I want an ammo grinder

I've no idea what is meant by an "ammo grinder" but, whether it cost them money or not, that kind of generic statement is just plain stupid. Some strongly held biases are based on limited experience and a stubborn resistance to being convinced by mere facts and copious evidence.

/Bryan

Will not eject properly, will not seat properly, jams constantly, dirtier - the worst it gets. Is that better? aka "ammo grinder" sorry you never heard that expression.

1911 is a low pressure gun! It was designed as a low pressure gun. It ejects and lines up low pressure ammo well. All the rest gets chewed up and once in a while even spit out properly. High pressure guns are ramped differently.

For every person who claims to have a good 9mm 1911 I have heard 10 horror stories. The only 2 gunsmiths I ever met I liked and trusted said "Don't buy one!!" Both sell custom match grade 1911's in 45 ACP. I had 2 gunsmiths (one in mentioned in this thread) say buy a Hi Power if you want 9mm that is why I started this tread to find out some fruitful opinions not sarcasm.

For you all who want to live and die with a 1911 45 in your hand that fine with me. I don't; I won't.

By the way I am not biased, I have my opinions and know what I like, sorry if you don't like that. If there is no such thing as a good target pistol in the world but a 1911 then I will hang up my semi-autos and shoot revolvers and high power rifle.

Edited December 17, 2007 by ButchW

[ButchW]

Butch, what kind of accuracy are you looking for?

Excellent (aka similar to what my 30 carbine Ruger & 686 do.)

Are you shooting groups, shooting bullseye targets

Yes. No competition. Shooting is fun, relaxation or once in while thrilling. Not much into pain other than 30-06. My calibers are 30 carbine, 380 / 9mm, 38 special & 357.

It looks like you want a single action autoloader in 9mm.

Absolutely.

[Paradiddle]

I would recommend a CZ 75SA - they are around $500, very accurate, and are well regarded. Perhaps a Sig P225 single stack 9mm will also float your boat. My friend has one and it is a VERY nice pistol.

Before you discount the 1911 style, you should try to find an shoot one - they work.

Jeff

[ButchW]

I would recommend a CZ 75SA - they are around $500, very accurate, and are well regarded. Perhaps a Sig P225 single stack 9mm will also float your boat. My friend has one and it is a VERY nice pistol.

Before you discount the 1911 style, you should try to find an shoot one - they work.

Jeff

I am keeping the CZ models on the burner for a while I just have no place around here to look & hold one especially not a match or target version. I live in an area of hunters and "blow out ammo" guys. Not many real target shooters other than shotgun. I destroy my targets so a couple "competitors" I know will never see them and get discouraged. Shooting is a God given privilege of good health. And just good clean fun. And about 10,000 rounds a year for me in relaxation.

I have shot many custom & Kimber 1911's in 45 ACP. 45 ACP just doesn't do anything for me. The gun is ok.

I have an Automag so the 1911 seems to be a downgrade (not really, just feels that way with a short barrel and no flame.) I could get my fathers off my brother to shoot if I really wanted it. It is about a $3000 gun by today's standards.

Sig 225??? Didn't see one on their web site. Sig 226 single stack (X5) is out for sure.

9mm has snap. The 30 carbine load as 32/20 and 38 special target have nothing. 357 or 30 carbine rifle in pistol is flame and thrill. 44 mag is too much. No stinking way on 454, 460 or 500, or 50 BMG either.

[Paradiddle]

Sig 225??? Didn't see one on their web site. Sig 226 single stack (X5) is out for sure.

9mm has snap. The 30 carbine load as 32/20 and 38 special target have nothing. 357 or 30 carbine rifle in pistol is flame and thrill. 44 mag is too much. No stinking way on 454, 460 or 500, or 50 BMG either.

The 225 is an older Sig - not available new. There are a couple online vendors that sell 225s that they've gone through - they are great gun - high quality.

[Patrick Sweeney]

OK, a single action 9mm it is. Since you won't go with a 1911, and the BHP trigger seems to be a real sticking point, you've pretty much taken the search to rarities.

That leaves the various CZs and clones, built (or re-built) to single action. Relatively rare or pricey S&Ws, then the Llamas, Stars, etc.

Let us know what works out.

[ButchW]

OK, a single action 9mm it is. Since you won't go with a 1911, and the BHP trigger seems to be a real sticking point, you've pretty much taken the search to rarities.

That leaves the various CZs and clones, built (or re-built) to single action. Relatively rare or pricey S&Ws, then the Llamas, Stars, etc.

Let us know what works out.

Are any built like the 1911 with a direct connected trigger?

Are 1911's the only guns used in competitions (not cowboy action of course)? Does anyone win without a 1911?

I see a pricey S&W is far cheaper than a built 1911 in 9mm. The cheapest quote I ever got was $1800.

[Bill Nesbitt]

Butch,

Sounds like you might want to look at some of the 9mms that they are using in PPC. I'm not sure who all makes them.

I'm not sure you can get the trigger and accuracy you want in many pistols other than a 1911. I am aware of many people shooting 1911s in 9mm in IDPA and they work. Some are custom guns and some are factory. I know of 2 people who have been shooting Nowlin 1911s in 9mm and they wouldn't shoot them if they didn't work. I'm pretty sure that at least one of them has around 100,000 rounds through it.

You might look at one of the single action SIGs. I think it might be the 210??

Also some of the CZs or clones might do what you want.

Good luck in your quest. Keep us informed of what you find.

[bountyhunter]

I have seen many people shoot Brownings or clones in competitions.

Has anyone out there cut down the rest of the trigger assemble? What was your final result?

If I can't get a lot better than what I have in my Beretta, why spend money?

Thanks

You can get a standard HP down to around 4# pull and still be reliable. The HP GP Comp (with the longer sear lever) can go about a pound lower. Those guns are really rare, I have one.

The HP is an OK gun, but the trigger will never compare to the 1911.

[bountyhunter]

I'm sure a good smith could get you a trigger you would be happy with on a High Power.

You can get a clean break on a HP, but the secondary cut on the sear has to be just right. Many HP's will develop hammer follow as the sear wears even a little bit which is really annoying because then you need another trigger job.

[bountyhunter]

I have 2 separate gunsmith who told me flat out don't ever thing about 9mm in 1911 unless I want an ammo grinder. My father's 1911 could not do 9mm or 40 corbon or 10 mm, problem after problem

I wish you had told me that before I shot those 30,000 rounds out my 9mm STI Trojan without a single hiccup.

Must be one of those cases of doing it because I didn't realize it was impossible....

[bountyhunter]

Does anyone win without a 1911?

I see a pricey S&W is far cheaper than a built 1911 in 9mm. The cheapest quote I ever got was $1800.

Here's a quote: STI Trojan in 9mm, about $920 from dawson Precision.

[ButchW]

Does anyone win without a 1911?

I see a pricey S&W is far cheaper than a built 1911 in 9mm. The cheapest quote I ever got was $1800.

Here's a quote: STI Trojan in 9mm, about $920 from dawson Precision.

Thanks. I really wasn't specific... I & my gunsmith was talking more like the $2300 model without the compensator.

But you helped in another way I now have an idea of what is meant by 2011.

Edited December 18, 2007 by ButchW

[RePete]

People rag on the BHP but it's like anyother pistol. Shoot the damn thing and learn, yes learn, it's idiosyncrasies. Then maybe you will shoot it reasonably well enough to compete.

You have to get used to the way it handle, cycles, trigger feels etc.

I like my BHP and I shoot it quite well.

People just don't want to take the time to play with it.

[Mick]

If you look at the factory "competition Hi Powers" from the 80s you can see they moved the location of the pivot pin on the transfer bar to make the trigger pull more acceptable. It works. BUT, I shot BHPs for years and NEVER got 30,000 rounds from one that didn't become unserviceable from breakage ( I kept a log on all of them). If you want a 9mm that will last get a Glock.

If you want a 9mm that has a good trigger and will last build an SV. I bought a used "beachface" gun in .40 and changed it to 9mm because of a good deal on 9mm ammo. I used a bushing barrel in case I thought of using it for non-USPSA events. It is a bullet hose!

I use my SV Super mags from my OPEN guns and they work fine.

Good trigger, high capacity and long service life. What else do you need?

[ButchW]

If you want a 9mm that has a good trigger and will last build an SV. I bought a used "beachface" gun in .40 and changed it to 9mm because of a good deal on 9mm ammo. I used a bushing barrel in case I thought of using it for non-USPSA events. It is a bullet hose!

I use my SV Super mags from my OPEN guns and they work fine.

Good trigger, high capacity and long service life. What else do you need?

Sorry don't know the lingo. What is an SV? Beachface? Good trigger & long life sounds great to me, high capacity is nice but not a must for paper killing.

The breakage you described easy to fix? Costly? or pitch gun?

[North]

Butch

SV = http://www.sviguns.com/

[Jim Watson]

Butch,

A Browning won't do what you say you want. Move on.

Since you seem averse to 1911s; check out the S&W M952. Or get on good terms with a cop who shoots PPC and see if he will sell you his PPC 9. S&W won't sell them to Americans because they hold too many shots and don't have enough safeties, but they are wonderfully accurate.

There are still some P210s around, even though SIG discontinues them periodically. Kind of like the furniture store that has a going out of business sale about once a month.

[Bryan 45]

It sounds like you're not afraid to spend the coin on it, I'd say look for a Sig 210 also. Commonly referred to as the world's most accurate 9x19.

[ChrisStock]

I must have a terrible M&P. I have three Hi-Powers. Two Brownings and a FN and I'ld rather shoot any of them than my M&P.

Get a trigger job on it...

+1

The factory trigger, like most pistols, flat out sucks for what we do with them. With the proper trigger job, a sweet and crisp 3# break and resets that are 1911 like are possible.

[RePete]

Go here for S&W trigger work.

http://www.burwellgunsmithing.com/misc/M&Ptriggerjob.pdf

[Gary1911A1]

Go here for S&W trigger work.

http://www.burwellgunsmithing.com/misc/M&Ptriggerjob.pdf

Very informative. Thanks for posting!

[Jim Watson]

Yup, I have been thinking of taking S&W up on their $50 rebate and free magazine offer; then sending the gun off to Mr Burwell. I'd rather pay him to do it than to tear into the gun myself.

[ButchW]

People rag on the BHP but it's like anyother pistol. Shoot the damn thing and learn, yes learn, it's idiosyncrasies. Then maybe you will shoot it reasonably well enough to compete.

You have to get used to the way it handle, cycles, trigger feels etc.

I like my BHP and I shoot it quite well.

People just don't want to take the time to play with it.

My father did well with a 1972 Browning Hi Power. That is why I started with this tread. I figured I could get a clone or even a Hi Power and spend $100 or so on trigger work and have a nice toy for Bullseye shooting and not have 2 grand in the whole deal.