benos Posted April 25, 2003 Share Posted April 25, 2003 Had a few last thoughts on the confusion producing word "relax." First, I don't mean a state of being relaxed, like my grip, arms, or body is "relaxed." Instead, I mean my grip has or is relaxed, somewhat, from either its previous state or the state it would have been if it (the grip) occurred unconsciously. Depending on Temperament, the "idea" of relaxing may have no meaning to some; their body-mind's manifest the appropriate state whatever the circumstance. For many others, however, it can be benificial to consciously monitor the grip pressure ONLY as it is being established, (especially in competition when increased stress or anxiety produces involuntary responses). Then forget it and pay attention to what you need to in order to hit each target. That's all I have to say on this matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadetree Posted April 27, 2003 Share Posted April 27, 2003 It is funny that this topic should come up. I have been thinking a little bit about my grip lately and how if anything I tend to grip the gun a little too lightly. Often when I first start shooting, weather it be at a match or in practice, I find the gun jumping around in my hands which forced me to adjust my grip after each shot. That can really slow you down. As I become more involved in my shooting I begin to forget about my grip and mirraculously the gun remains stable in my hand. After looking at it a while I found two possible reasons for this. First is that I do a lot more dryfire than live fire practice. When dry firing it is not nessesarry to grip the gun as tightly because there is no recoil or tork. Second when I start shooting my elbows tend to be a bit lower than my hands. At the day goes on I start to lift my elbows up and out a bit which pushes my hands together a bit more eliminating the bouncing around in my hands. Any other thoughts or insight on this matter would be apriciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benos Posted April 28, 2003 Author Share Posted April 28, 2003 That's all I have to say on this matter. Okay... I always attempt to simulate my shooting grip when dry-firing; if nothing else it builds your grip strength. I think about, imagine, and remember my grip strength (with both hands) as "one gripping force," which has a maximum value of 100% (when gripping as hard as I can). Then I experiment with this in practice by mentally commanding myself to "grip at 90%" or whatever. But when shooting accurately, like at the Bianchi Cup, I'd seldom think about my grip because the course of fire wasn't influencing me to over-tighten my entire body to where you couldn't jack-hammer a toothpick up my ass. In my first year (1981) at the Cup, however, I did have a life-altering, enlightening experience by commanding myself to "relax" my grip on the gun. (As related somewhere on this forum.) be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcoliver Posted April 29, 2003 Share Posted April 29, 2003 Same here BE. I realized when dry firing, I can pay more attention to my grip, trigger finger, thumbs tension, arm tension, etc. This is because there's no distraction from the gun going off. I'm hoping I can pay attention to these things while dry firing that when live firing, these essentials are already in place and I can better focus on the more important thing...and that's the shooting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadetree Posted April 30, 2003 Share Posted April 30, 2003 Hmm........ I will try being a bit more mindful of my grip when dryfiring and see where it takes me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcoliver Posted April 30, 2003 Share Posted April 30, 2003 just to add, be mindful also of how much more your peripheral vision will allow you to see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikW Posted July 8, 2003 Share Posted July 8, 2003 We had this stage Sunday with all partial targets, plus a few plates, all beyond ten yards. More black and white than brown, if you know what I mean. I swear I could hear Brian telling me to relax like Luke hearing Obi-Wan telling him to use the Force. I relaxed my grip on my Open blaster and let the gun fire itself when the dot was on the A zones. It didn't do much wiggling or jumping, but I felt a little bit like I was waiting for it. I think that's what you call visual patience. I called two imperfect shots, but I didn't take any make up shots. I won the stage with 142 out of 150 points and on the same second as the best times. I think I need to apply this relaxed grip thing to my Limited gun shooting. At least learn to relax my grip on my Open gun on every stage. It's just so hard to overcome or avoid tension. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M4Super90 Posted August 11, 2008 Share Posted August 11, 2008 (edited) I've been working on my grip pressure lately. I've noticed, even in dry fire, as I try to add speed my grip and trigger press pressure increases. This causes results similar to a trigger slap during live fire. Any tips/trick on how to condition a lighter trigger and grip pressure while adding speed? Edited August 11, 2008 by M4Super90 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted August 12, 2008 Share Posted August 12, 2008 Any tips/trick on how to condition a lighter trigger and grip pressure while adding speed? Yes. You grip the gun more with the weak hand, freeing up the strong hand to run the trigger. Most under class-men tend to tighten up their string hand when they want to go faster. This tension slows the trigger finger down. I've preached on this many times. Try a few searches and see if you can find one of the many dedicated threads on trigger finger speed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joecichlid Posted August 12, 2008 Share Posted August 12, 2008 For me, the word relax while shooting means just that. Take myself out of the situation and let my training take over, rela and enjoy the ride. Let my ears hear the start of the beep and my hands start the draw. Let my hands correctly grip the gun and my arms move it forward. Let my eye see the target and my body bring the gun to my eyes. Without forcing it, the safety clicks off as the dot finds the target, finger squeezing the trigger and the shot breaks. For me, if I force the motions it is just that, forced. I can never do well when I force things, I must be relaxed and "let" things happen at their own pace. If my training and practice is correct "it" will happen smoothly and quickly. After a lengthy time away from shooting (a month which is a long time when I am used to shooting every week) I have forgotten how to relax. My mind and scores over the last few weeks have shown me I need to re-learn to relax. Some may see this as total bs, others may agree but no matter what for me it works. Joe W. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larry cazes Posted August 12, 2008 Share Posted August 12, 2008 I've been working on my grip pressure lately. I've noticed, even in dry fire, as I try to add speed my grip and trigger press pressure increases. This causes results similar to a trigger slap during live fire. Any tips/trick on how to condition a lighter trigger and grip pressure while adding speed? After five years in this game, I think I have recently started to begin to understand the advice given to me years ago by some very good shooters. They all said "Shoot slow, move and do everything else fast". If I try to shoot fast, I miss. If I relax and just do what it takes to hit I achieve more on a stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benos Posted August 12, 2008 Author Share Posted August 12, 2008 I've been working on my grip pressure lately. I've noticed, even in dry fire, as I try to add speed my grip and trigger press pressure increases. This causes results similar to a trigger slap during live fire. Any tips/trick on how to condition a lighter trigger and grip pressure while adding speed? What prompts you to "try to add speed"? be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M4Super90 Posted August 13, 2008 Share Posted August 13, 2008 I've been working on my grip pressure lately. I've noticed, even in dry fire, as I try to add speed my grip and trigger press pressure increases. This causes results similar to a trigger slap during live fire. Any tips/trick on how to condition a lighter trigger and grip pressure while adding speed? What prompts you to "try to add speed"? be Nothing prompts me during the draw other than a conscious effort to reduce my draw time. I'm using Steve Anderson's book, which recommends you do sets - i.e. 10 warm ups, 10 at your normal par, and then try to do a set below par. As I try to do the last sub par set, my grip pressure tends to go from neutral and floating, towards the white knuckle death grip. In general, what's prompting me to try and add speed is I've noticed a lull in my overall improvement and a bit of burnout. I'm trying new drills and experimenting with different things - i.e. steel matches, USPSA matches, etc. (I've shot IDPA for years). I want to see if with enough reps I can make myself a bit speed blind, which will hopefully let me see what I need to faster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWT Posted August 25, 2008 Share Posted August 25, 2008 This transfers across multiple boundaries, not just shooting. (I know this is going to sound lame...) But back when I played football in High School, I can remember the day I made first string... I wasn't even really thinking about football, I was just practicing, doing my routine, consistently getting the quarter back, things meshed, I was relaxed (I was a Defensive Tackle), oddly enough, I wasn't even really thinking about football, I just dealt with it as it came. I was kind of in a relaxed but ready state. Then they told me I got first string, and then I think probably tension trashed my performance for the rest of that practice. As I began to put pressure on my own performance, and I quit trusting myself. Funny how we are. I find I perform things best when I don't think about the things I'm about to do, I mean, don't just be absent minded, but realize what needs to be done, what the objectives are, it's kind of like an exam or major test, you've studied, prepared, you don't feel particularly smarter that day or better than usual, but deep down you know you're ready. Just realize it, and be calm, and do what you've trained yourself to do. Sounds easy, it really isn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbo23 Posted August 25, 2008 Share Posted August 25, 2008 You may have tried this already. But if you are getting tense going faster mentally. Just try to get to the gun fast and let the rest come as trained. It was eye opening to me how slow I was off the buzzer. Even though I thought I was fast. I had the same thing going on and still do from time to time. But if I just try to react fast and shoot control, I am faster. The second that I try too hard is when I clutch the gun. Just my .02 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocket35 Posted August 25, 2008 Share Posted August 25, 2008 Video interview with Rob Leatham... http://www.tacticalgunfan.com/index.php?op...5&Itemid=74 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benos Posted August 26, 2008 Author Share Posted August 26, 2008 I've been working on my grip pressure lately. I've noticed, even in dry fire, as I try to add speed my grip and trigger press pressure increases. This causes results similar to a trigger slap during live fire. Any tips/trick on how to condition a lighter trigger and grip pressure while adding speed? What prompts you to "try to add speed"? be Nothing prompts me during the draw other than a conscious effort to reduce my draw time. I'm using Steve Anderson's book, which recommends you do sets - i.e. 10 warm ups, 10 at your normal par, and then try to do a set below par. As I try to do the last sub par set, my grip pressure tends to go from neutral and floating, towards the white knuckle death grip. In general, what's prompting me to try and add speed is I've noticed a lull in my overall improvement and a bit of burnout. I'm trying new drills and experimenting with different things - i.e. steel matches, USPSA matches, etc. (I've shot IDPA for years). I want to see if with enough reps I can make myself a bit speed blind, which will hopefully let me see what I need to faster. Okay, now I understand, thank you. Maybe experiment with how you think about "adding speed," or going "below par." For example when you get to the "10 below par" set, instead of telling yourself to "go below par," tell yourself to see and act without any mental restrictions at all. And just see what happens. This transfers across multiple boundaries, not just shooting.(I know this is going to sound lame...) But back when I played football in High School, I can remember the day I made first string... I wasn't even really thinking about football, I was just practicing, doing my routine, consistently getting the quarter back, things meshed, I was relaxed (I was a Defensive Tackle), oddly enough, I wasn't even really thinking about football, I just dealt with it as it came. I was kind of in a relaxed but ready state. Then they told me I got first string, and then I think probably tension trashed my performance for the rest of that practice. As I began to put pressure on my own performance, and I quit trusting myself. Funny how we are. I find I perform things best when I don't think about the things I'm about to do, I mean, don't just be absent minded, but realize what needs to be done, what the objectives are, it's kind of like an exam or major test, you've studied, prepared, you don't feel particularly smarter that day or better than usual, but deep down you know you're ready. Just realize it, and be calm, and do what you've trained yourself to do. Sounds easy, it really isn't. That's definitely not lame - that's great stuff! Reminds me of a Tool line... "Over thinking, over analyzing, separates the body from the mind." That's a lesson I know I've never fully learned. be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoMiE Posted August 26, 2008 Share Posted August 26, 2008 Reminds me of a Tool line... "Over thinking, over analyzing, separates the body from the mind." That's a lesson I know I've never fully learned.be Push the envelope. Watch it bend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlamoShooter Posted August 26, 2008 Share Posted August 26, 2008 A tooth pick I will not think of tooth picks the same. Jack hammer a toothpick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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