Single Stack Question

[bruce282]

I have a bone stock Springfield Mil-Spec 1911. I bought it because everyone should own at least 1 1911, and to shoot CDP in IDPA. When SS came around I bought more mags, mag holders and a Blade-Tech holster. I have even talked to Benny about installing real sights and hard chroming the slide. But my question is this: Will this gun hold up for season of shooting SS meaning 2-3 local matches and 2-4 major matches plus practice. I ask because for the last 2 years in Production I have 1 not user caused malfunction using my G17 and G34.

Thanks,

Bruce

[boz1911]

As far as durability I don't see an issue, as far as reliability and performance that's another story.

The stock trigger group needs to be replaced, the barrel is pretty much junk. Extractor reliablility is an issue and the sights suck just to mention a few downfalls. I have one of these guns and spent a fortune to make it a good gun.

Personally for the $ this gun will cost to upgrade you can buy several other 1911's that have all the features you need and will want.

[revchuck]

We don't know how reliable and accurate the gun is as stands. If it's good to go in these areas, all you'd need is a trigger job, grip safety (and whacking the hammer to work with it), decent sights and a mag well. I wouldn't mess with hard chroming if money is a big issue. You're probably looking at ~$200. That amount is nowhere near what you'll spend on ammo components for the schedule you've proposed.

If the gun needs more than that, it'd be more cost effective to trade it on a 1911 that already has those things done to it.

[Paul Burtchell]

Durability is probably not an issue. Being competitive may be another story.

[John Dunn]

What do you mean by "hold up"? As a high round count competition shooter you should expect some parts breakage, like extractors, etc. Other than that a 1911 should last a 100,000 rds.

[Radical Precision Designs]

I see this scenario in a daily basis at my retail Store. A good portion of my customers are competition shooters. I am one myself. We enjoy the Sport. But we do not want to pay more than absolutely necessary for our "top" tools. We also enjoy the feeling of having brought up the guns we use from a mere low vessel into the high fallooting thing of flawless and cutting edge performance that dreams are made of.

In addition of custom competition guns, I sell side by side regular production guns. Invariably I will have a non-specific "mil-spec" type next to another gun with all the bells and whistles from the same manufacturer. Freedom of choice. Most of the "add-on" features are prevalent in one while devoid in the other. When you figure out the cost of retro-fitting the parts needed to upgrade, including possibly "refinishing" the gun with the bells and whistles comes out cheaper. Yet a lot of the customers willopt to purchase the lower grade gun. So far the only saving real grace I see is the "challenge" of doing the "deed" yourself. Nothing wrong with that. I find it very refreshing and amusing. Especially since I will get to sell them the custom parts, and very often install a lot of them. In some instances i will have to correct a few errors in judgement. But it is all good. In the end, most customers will have the satisfaction of having done it themselves. Pride of ownership, and a fair undertanding of how it all works.

Yes, it is true that many of these "mil-pec" guns will have some sub-standard parts. They are indeed functional and serviceable, but they were not originally intended for a heavy competition usage either. For that the manufacturer made the other one with the bells and whistles. But ... very often even those guns with the bells and whistles will also have some substandard part in them. Why? because very often those are the only parts the manufacturers produce or obtain with their name on them. This is where they will hold down the line in manufacturing costs and or assembly costs, which will all transfer to the final price you pay at the cash register. IF the top quality, high performance parts were installed and "tuned up" in the inception, most likely you would cry and complain about the final price. Add to that the fact that you can not select which particular brand of parts go in the "internals" either.

So, yes. These "mil-spec" style guns will continue to sell very well, in spite of their short-comings. And, y'all will continue to bitch about them as you bring them up to your desired specs and performance. It's the nature of the "beast" (we all !).

[Bryan 45]

Springfield frames and slides are as good as anyones. The sights on the Mil-spec aren't that bad, it's the GI that has BAD sights. I vote for shooting the snot out of it and see what YOU like about it and what you don't.

I like SS because it's not an equipment race. Extended mag release, mag well, .40 cal, none of it means much, it's how well YOU shoot and reload.

[Beretta Lover]

I have a bone stock Springfield Mil-Spec 1911. I bought it because everyone should own at least 1 1911, and to shoot CDP in IDPA. When SS came around I bought more mags, mag holders and a Blade-Tech holster. I have even talked to Benny about installing real sights and hard chroming the slide. But my question is this: Will this gun hold up for season of shooting SS meaning 2-3 local matches and 2-4 major matches plus practice. I ask because for the last 2 years in Production I have 1 not user caused malfunction using my G17 and G34.

Thanks,

Bruce

Grasshopper,

You have already answered your own question (partly). Almost no 1911 will last as long or fire as reliably as any glock, especially the G17. Having said that the Glock can be lightly customized to shoot at the same level as the top IPSC/IDPA guys with a relatively low level of cash outlay.

If you want to go down the 1911 path, so be it (join the club) but it won't be cheap and it won't be without complication.

All my guns break (except for my glocks and Berettas) anyway

Fell the dark side...

[Radical Precision Designs]

I have a bone stock Springfield Mil-Spec 1911. I bought it because everyone should own at least 1 1911, and to shoot CDP in IDPA. When SS came around I bought more mags, mag holders and a Blade-Tech holster. I have even talked to Benny about installing real sights and hard chroming the slide. But my question is this: Will this gun hold up for season of shooting SS meaning 2-3 local matches and 2-4 major matches plus practice. I ask because for the last 2 years in Production I have 1 not user caused malfunction using my G17 and G34.

Thanks,

Bruce

Grasshopper,

You have already answered your own question (partly). Almost no 1911 will last as long or fire as reliably as any glock, especially the G17. Having said that the Glock can be lightly customized to shoot at the same level as the top IPSC/IDPA guys with a relatively low level of cash outlay.

If you want to go down the 1911 path, so be it (join the club) but it won't be cheap and it won't be without complication.

All my guns break (except for my glocks and Berettas) anyway

Fell the dark side...

Oh, oh, oh !!!!!!!! You did a " boo-boo" ???

[zhunter]

Grasshopper,

You have already answered your own question (partly). Almost no 1911 will last as long or fire as reliably as any glock, especially the G17. Having said that the Glock can be lightly customized to shoot at the same level as the top IPSC/IDPA guys with a relatively low level of cash outlay.

If you want to go down the 1911 path, so be it (join the club) but it won't be cheap and it won't be without complication.

All my guns break (except for my glocks and Berettas) anyway

Fell the dark side...

Someone is TROLLING!!!

[Jeff686]

Just go shoot it. You don't need all those bells n whistles.

I made B-Class in L-10 with a POS Norinco 1911 from China. It ran for 4+ years, shooting 2x a month before needing any work.

[Derek45]

This is a pic of my custom 1995 IPSC Limited gun.

It started out as a basic parkerized Mil-spec 1911A1 springfield.

I ran the piss out of this gun and it held up very well.

DAMN, I miss this gun !

[Resjudicata]

I shot single stack and L10 most of last year with a pair of Springfield Mil Specs (Not GI) and had no problems other than those caused by Tungsten guide rods. One shot out the end of the slide during a stage then the broken end bound up the spring. They were replaced with two piece Wilson rods.

However, the only parts still stock were the slide, frame and barrel. I replaced all the trigger parts with drop in McCormick parts. I cut the frame for the SA beavertail myself using a dremel and file with their jig. I used the crappy Wilson mag well that just hooks around the grip screws.

I found the standard Mil Spec for $400 then spent about $200 in parts plus my labor. I say if you can do it all yourself it's okay and worth it. The slide frame and barrel will all last under competition. However, if you can't do it yourself then it's worth it to just buy a Springfield loaded and be done with it.

Chris

[Theo Carter]

I have 2 of those guns and the only thing you have to change for sure is the sights. You can get a good gunsmith to work with whats in the gun untill you decide what you like in a trigger. Another thing you can replace is the bushing. But like I stated earlier you can just start with the sights.

[2 para's]

if you want to go 1911 no matter what FACTORY ONE you pick out in the long run you WILL end up throwing half the parts away.

so why not get a S/A Mil-Spec you get the beefiest frame out there a good slide and unlike some one else said a good barrel.

with the sights they have on it Which aren't bad for fixed the cuts that are all ready in it you you can cut over them to install any heine/bomar/or anything else you want. send the gun out to clark and he can tighten up the frame to slide and weld up the barrel hood and lugs to get it shooting 2 inch groups at 50 yards' the barrels not bad just the fit.Beaver high ride safty,magwell,trigger group hell that stuff you can do yourself.

[JakeMartens]

Get some better sights, a beavertail and new hammer, sear and disconnector and trigger, add a magwell and extended mag release and go shoot the hell out of it.

[dubletap]

Yeah what they said... I bought my Springfield 15 years ago put a Kart barrel in, slide tightened, an S&A mag well, Bomars & FO, Ed Brown Beaver Tail and have a 2 lb trigger. I shot it when I first got started for the first couple of years, then shot a race gun for 8 years. Started up with the SS 2 years ago as my only gun. I shoot 1200+ rounds a month. I recently went to a Aftec after breaking 2 extractors (both aftermarket) in the last 2 years, and had to replace my mag springs. I probably have $1200 - $1300 in the gun including the smithing. Lots of grip tape, finish is worn, kinda ugly, but it shoots all day long.

[chrisjohn]

Do you reload? Unmodified glocks never malfunction in 9x19 with factory ammo, that's what they were designed to use and do it well.

Will your SS run with factory ball .45? Absolutely. Will it hold up? If you run enough ball to break it, you will have spent 15K on factory ammo. Don't worry about the weapon, worry about feeding it.

[J-Ho]

Just go shoot it. You don't need all those bells n whistles.

I made B-Class in L-10 with a POS Norinco 1911 from China. It ran for 4+ years, shooting 2x a month before needing any work.

+1 on the Norico. I've had one for years. It misfed once. It was someone else's reload. A friend who shoots a STI in limited uses a Norico for IDPA.

[BBoyd]

I shot a colt gold cup in IPSC matches, every week for nearly 4 years and never did zip to the gun other than clean it.

I still have it and still shoot it on occasion. I say shoot away and lets us know when and if you ever have a problem with it.

[bruce282]

Thanks to everyone who replied. I just started reloading and my 550b came with .45acp dies so I'm going to load up 230gr plated RN with 4.1 of Clays while the slide is getting new sights installed. The wife got me the Gun Digest 1911 manual so I'll look into dropping in a better trigger assembly.

Thanks again,

Bruce

[Irishlad]

I think the gun can "take it".

The question will be whether your hand can "take it" without a well-fit beavertail.

Just a thought!

[ChrisStock]

I think the gun can "take it".

The question will be whether your hand can "take it" without a well-fit beavertail.

Just a thought!

I was going to add this in after my experience last week going through a full case of light handloads on a couple of courses I set up to run at practice. In 500 rounds I managed to turn the space between my trigger finger and thumb into a raw piece of meat surrounded by lovely black, blue, and yellow bands. I haven't been able to shoot anything for a couple of days now, as it feels and looks like I wailed the snot out of my hand with a mini sledge.

Yes, a beavertail will be replacing the straight rearward pointing grip safety before my SA Milspec sees the range again, or I'll outright sell it. I have never had a pistol open up a can of whup@$$ on me like that. I don't recall mine from Uncle Sam ever doing that to me, and after comparing the grip safety on another 1911, I can see how it happened. Lesson learned.

Edited December 14, 2007 by Lighteye67

[dirtypool40]

no 1911 will last as long or fire as reliably as any glock, especially the G17. Having said that the Glock can be lightly customized to shoot at the same level as the top IPSC/IDPA guys with a relatively low level of cash outlay.

If you want to go down the 1911 path, so be it (join the club) but it won't be cheap and it won't be without complication.

All my guns break (except for my glocks and Berettas) anyway

That's a riot. It always amuses me, and is a testament to the great marketing Glock has done. I'm surprised he didn't say "Except Kimber" that's the other "Kool-aid" party line. And I almost missed the part where with a little cash outlay you can take your Glock and prove it's the ARROW and NOT the Indian.

Someone is TROLLING!!!

I think Z's right.

I've owned and shot Glocks for carry and competition. They are alright, but break and malfunction just like everything else. They are built with huge tolerances that make lots of sacrifices for reliability, so they usually run pretty well. There are still lemons from all makers, and like many I wish Glock would listen to shooters and improve their design.

Do you reload? Unmodified glocks never malfunction in 9x19 with factory ammo, that's what they were designed to use and do it well.

Glocks NEVER malf. Hmm. Well, I stand corrected.

To answer the original question, with decent mags and ball profile ammo, a Mil-Spec should hold up at least as well as a Glock, Berretta or anything else, and be just as reliable.

Yes, some of the Mil Spec's out there are bargain items put together with questionable QC. I'll admit, I'm not crazy about the thought of shooting 20k + through a Mil Spec. It's about like shooting the same number through a Glock, both chew on my hand and have horrible triggers and sights out of the box.

I guess Venry covered it; you get what you pay for with a $400 "race gun". For a few hundred more, less than $1000 total, you could spruce up a milspec or a Glock and make a shootable, accurate, reliable pistol you'll enjoy more.

It would also be easier to start with a Loaded SA or Kimber and just add some internal polishing, a S&A magwell, trigger job and fibre optic front of you like. For about a grand you're racing.

Basically the same with a Glock, except I'd go 35 and Limited.

Edited December 14, 2007 by dirtypool40

[Vlad]

You want strange? I own a mil-spec I'm slowly upgrading and its costing me more then then just getting a factory made gun. I don't regret it one bit, first because it was a present from my wife, and second because I dislike front slide serations. I've replaced all small parts, installed beaver tail, magwell, new grips, etc. The only original parts left are barrel, slide, frame, firing pin, and maybe grip screw bushings. The sights are next to be replaced but that will be the first thing I couldn't do myself, I need a real gunsmith for that.

Yeah a Mil-Spec is fine for SS, you can shoot it as it is or upgrade it. Your choice. Have fun.