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Great Read- Unintended Consequences by John Ross


falconpilot

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For the readers that like historical Fiction, you owe it to yourself to pick up a copy of John Ross's book, "Unintended Consequences". It's a great read that covers alot of the Firearm laws of this country, how they were introduced, for what reasons. It also covers the involvement of our goverments historical infringement upon our rights "to bear arms". Remember that the story line is fiction, but based on alot of historical facts. This is a book that will grab you, and make you think.

Heres the link - http://john-ross.net/

You owe it to yourself to take a look!

Jim

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I can understand how the last 1/3 might bother some people, espically goverment employees, ATF and etc., but remember that in my first post I did mention "keep in mind that it is a work of fiction". I believe that the ultimate message that it delivers is far more powerfull and important to us, than to let the so call "offensive parts" prevent its reading.

I personally don't find it offensive and crude being that its fiction. What I do find offensive was the Brady Bill, Ruby Ridge, and Waco. They really happened....

I personally really enjoyed Dan Brown' , The Da Vinci Code which alot of people found offensive. My Faith is strong enough that I have no problem reading something, enjoying its entertainment value, and sorting out the rest. Alot of people are campaigning against the new movie, "The Golden Compass". While I can understand some of the views, it seems that today so many people believe everything that they see or hear in the media(one of the points in Unintended Consequences).

It seems that some people can't think for themselves!! Read a book or go to the movie, sort out the crap, but enjoy the entertainment values, and learn from the historical views as well.

"Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it"

Jim

Currently reading it - interesting book.
Edited by falconpilot
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If you have read Ayn Rand's "Atlas Shrugged" you have almost read "Unintended Consequences".

I have read both and they are books to keep forever.

(I don't agree with ALL of Ayn Rand's philosophy.)

When John Ross's book may actually be my favorite of the two because of the subject matter, no science fiction and the use of historical facts.

I would like to see this thread stay open.

FM

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I didn't find anything offensive about the book. The problem for me is that the beginning is so drastically different from the ending. I would feel good about recommending the beginning to anyone. It has more historically accurate and interesting data about the "gun culture" than any other book I've read, and I think it does a great job of representing the viewpoints of most gun owners by giving data on how we arrived where we are today.

The ending does NOT represent the average gun owner. I can not recommend the book to my mother for example (or anyone who isn't already a member of the gun culture--or anyone who doesn't have the ability to take things with a grain of salt) because the story depicts gun owners as a group commiting violent sexual crimes and murdering political figures. This is described in detail in the last few hundred pages. For me is was entertaining. For many others though, I could see the beginning of the book increasing their affinity for firearms (no matter their previous views), but the end of the book would almost certainly further their conviction that gun owners "...fill in the blank..." Any prejudice they had prior to reading the book would just be confirmed and amplified, especially if a gun owner recommended the book.

An earlier post, "...not a good book to have on the shelf when big brother comes callin." pretty much sums it up. Its message is extreme in a way that can't be accepted by everyone.

It is still one of my favorite reads, but I don't recommend it to many people.

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Trevoro quote -

An earlier post, "...not a good book to have on the shelf when big brother comes callin." pretty much sums it up. Its message is extreme in a way that can't be accepted by everyone."

It's message is extreme as far as the fiction part of the book near the end...I'd never suggest that we(as a gun culture) take such extremes as the fictional story line of the book, but I feel that the real message of the book is making the point that if we stand together, and act together(such as support the NRA, the shooting sports fountains and such, making sure that we exerise our right to vote, electing conservative politcian(not the liberals), we can change the direction we are heading as a country...We don't have to stand still and take whatever someone else thinks is good for us...Acting before its too late, not after the deed is already done is what we need to do..Not just set on our "as#@#" hoping that the liberals don't really take our guns...Just my thoughts :cheers:

And again, by acting, I mean voting, supporting the NRA, and all the other mean to support and protect our rights to bear arms and shooting/hunting sports..I DO NOT advocate, nor indorse the ideal of killing anyone..unless they are about to do myself, love ones, family or friends harm...Then all bets are off......

Edited by falconpilot
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Its interesting....but not a good book to have on the shelf when big brother comes a callin :unsure:

Jim

With some of us on this forum (names unused to protect the innocent) a book on the shelf is the last of their worries with 50+#s of powder, 30K primers and enough loaded ammo to supply most state police agencies in their reloading rooms...

:devil:

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"Fiction" is a copout. Mr. Ross' book is a suggestion and blueprint for murder. Plain and simple. I'm not saying it's a sophisticated one, nor even a good one, but it is a blueprint nonetheless and John Ross put it out there with the notion that it would play well to the more suggestible souls in our society, a la The Turner Diaries. To come to another conclusion about the latter third of the work is really pretty naive. For the feds to be upset over it is pretty understandable. It's no less than a death threat in a legalized package.

That said, with some editing, the first 2/3 of the book could become an American classic. It's really a pity the choices that were made.

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Yep. The first 2/3 was the best firearms related story I've read, with great detail. Then it twists into black helicopters and killing federal agents. Not personally offensive from a strictly fiction point of view, but embarrassing to endorse it. "Yeah! this is what we're all about! yeah!" I don't want to be associated with a "culture" where murdering our government's employees is okay. Too bad, because it could easily have been a vehicle to explain our real culture.

"Fiction" is a copout. Mr. Ross' book is a suggestion and blueprint for murder. Plain and simple. I'm not saying it's a sophisticated one, nor even a good one, but it is a blueprint nonetheless and John Ross put it out there with the notion that it would play well to the more suggestible souls in our society, a la The Turner Diaries. To come to another conclusion about the latter third of the work is really pretty naive. For the feds to be upset over it is pretty understandable. It's no less than a death threat in a legalized package.

That said, with some editing, the first 2/3 of the book could become an American classic. It's really a pity the choices that were made.

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Kind of corny in spots but the underlying message is powerful....

I am afraid it might be prophetic.

This book is very hard to get in either Hard or paperback. If you go to amazon or Nobles they will order it but be prepared to wait a long time. It is a good book though. I ended up borrowing a friends copy and read it before I ever got mine.

I read this book about 6 years ago, and then reread it 2 years ago. It is amazing to go to the internet and look up some of these items. They deffinitely never taught us this stuff in US History in High school. :blink: I also believe that a time will come in this country when we as citizens will be faced with a really hard decision about guns and other rights. I am also sad that it might be before I pass.

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You can go to www.accuratepress.net and order the book direct I believe....As far as what we learned in US History..I agree with you there!! Our shools are now teaching more and more "Selective" ideals than ever before, and unfortunely, they are generally very liberal in what they chose to teach. Never mind that our kids can't prey in school any longer or that the ten commandments no longer stand at State captials or courthouse across the country..I'll get off my soap box..If I've offend anyone....Didn't intend too....

Kind of corny in spots but the underlying message is powerful....

I am afraid it might be prophetic.

This book is very hard to get in either Hard or paperback. If you go to amazon or Nobles they will order it but be prepared to wait a long time. It is a good book though. I ended up borrowing a friends copy and read it before I ever got mine.

I read this book about 6 years ago, and then reread it 2 years ago. It is amazing to go to the internet and look up some of these items. They deffinitely never taught us this stuff in US History in High school. :blink: I also believe that a time will come in this country when we as citizens will be faced with a really hard decision about guns and other rights. I am also sad that it might be before I pass.

Edited by falconpilot
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I have to agree with most who have read it...the first parts are really good.

The last part is totaly out of bounds :angry2:

The book paints the Federal agents as evil and corrupt...In my humble experiance the exact opposite is true.

ALL of the agents I have ever known ..are men of honor!!!!

This book is interesting...but it plays into a conspiracy mentality and portrays gun owners in a very bad light.

Books of this nature have become the play books for a lunatic fringe that we ALL would reject!!!

Jim

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It's a book. It's entertainment. So some people like most of it and don't like other parts about it. Big deal.

Overall it's still a good read - that was my impression about 8 or 9 years ago. As for being "offensive" because it presents government employees in a certain way, OK, write another book that paints them in glowing terms or watch Jack Bauer - a super duper government type who many normal people find offensive.

And if I remember correctly there were offended government employee's who didn't like the book who went after the author and attempted to prosecute him on whatever they could fabricate. But the author was a lawyer or had money and the last I heard they failed. This was several years ago and the memory could be off on bits and pieces.

But even if you didn't like the last part of the book, it borders on criminal that Americans and few other peoples have little or no idea about most of the history presented in the earlier Politically Correct parts of Unintended Consequences.

Edited by Viggen
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I have to agree with most who have read it...the first parts are really good.

The last part is totaly out of bounds :angry2:

The book paints the Federal agents as evil and corrupt...In my humble experiance the exact opposite is true.

ALL of the agents I have ever known ..are men of honor!!!!

This book is interesting...but it plays into a conspiracy mentality and portrays gun owners in a very bad light.

Books of this nature have become the play books for a lunatic fringe that we ALL would reject!!!

Jim

Jim, I have to disagree about the last part being out of bounds. With the scenario presented by the book the atf agent was breaking the law to get back at a person that as far as the story was concerned, did not break the law, but had embarrassed the agent. So if it is ok for the fictional character to break the law and use his authority to get his way thru whatever means it took, then it is ok for a fictional character who is the victim to do what is necessary to defend and embarrass a govt. agency. All the book was doing was showing how as govt. gets larger it has groups that abuse the authority and that is the unintended consequence. I will agree that most people in the govt. are decent folks, but I also have met some that dont have the maturity for the job and are cought up in the power of the position they have. I was told as a child and I still believe it when my Grandmother told me that power is an illusion that many people think they have. Sometimes even in fiction there are good guys that take direction from bad people and then they pay a price. If this was a movie it would do well, but there will never be anyone that will make it as hollywood would support it with the finanaces to produce it.

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I have to agree with most who have read it...the first parts are really good.

The last part is totaly out of bounds :angry2:

The book paints the Federal agents as evil and corrupt...In my humble experiance the exact opposite is true.

ALL of the agents I have ever known ..are men of honor!!!!

This book is interesting...but it plays into a conspiracy mentality and portrays gun owners in a very bad light.

Books of this nature have become the play books for a lunatic fringe that we ALL would reject!!!

Jim

Jim, I have to disagree about the last part being out of bounds. With the scenario presented by the book the atf agent was breaking the law to get back at a person that as far as the story was concerned, did not break the law, but had embarrassed the agent. So if it is ok for the fictional character to break the law and use his authority to get his way thru whatever means it took, then it is ok for a fictional character who is the victim to do what is necessary to defend and embarrass a govt. agency. All the book was doing was showing how as govt. gets larger it has groups that abuse the authority and that is the unintended consequence. I will agree that most people in the govt. are decent folks, but I also have met some that dont have the maturity for the job and are cought up in the power of the position they have. I was told as a child and I still believe it when my Grandmother told me that power is an illusion that many people think they have. Sometimes even in fiction there are good guys that take direction from bad people and then they pay a price. If this was a movie it would do well, but there will never be anyone that will make it as hollywood would support it with the finanaces to produce it.

You have valid points my friend!

I respect your opinion...but I think this particular book has gained way too much traction as a tool against our freedoms.

In retrospect many stories that are far worse in content have come to the silver screen.

As far as movies and hollywood go...I love the movie Pearl Harbor...but I puke when I see Alek Baldwin play the part of Doolittle.

This book would make a good movie but I fear the hollywood types would pervert its true meaning into something real ugly.

Case in point...the Tom Clancy novel...Sum of all fears.

Jim :)

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I have to agree with most who have read it...the first parts are really good.

The last part is totaly out of bounds :angry2:

The book paints the Federal agents as evil and corrupt...In my humble experiance the exact opposite is true.

ALL of the agents I have ever known ..are men of honor!!!!

This book is interesting...but it plays into a conspiracy mentality and portrays gun owners in a very bad light.

Books of this nature have become the play books for a lunatic fringe that we ALL would reject!!!

Jim

Jim, I have to disagree about the last part being out of bounds. With the scenario presented by the book the atf agent was breaking the law to get back at a person that as far as the story was concerned, did not break the law, but had embarrassed the agent. So if it is ok for the fictional character to break the law and use his authority to get his way thru whatever means it took, then it is ok for a fictional character who is the victim to do what is necessary to defend and embarrass a govt. agency. All the book was doing was showing how as govt. gets larger it has groups that abuse the authority and that is the unintended consequence. I will agree that most people in the govt. are decent folks, but I also have met some that dont have the maturity for the job and are cought up in the power of the position they have. I was told as a child and I still believe it when my Grandmother told me that power is an illusion that many people think they have. Sometimes even in fiction there are good guys that take direction from bad people and then they pay a price. If this was a movie it would do well, but there will never be anyone that will make it as hollywood would support it with the finanaces to produce it.

You have valid points my friend!

I respect your opinion...but I think this particular book has gained way too much traction as a tool against our freedoms.

In retrospect many stories that are far worse in content have come to the silver screen.

As far as movies and hollywood go...I love the movie Pearl Harbor...but I puke when I see Alek Baldwin play the part of Doolittle.

This book would make a good movie but I fear the hollywood types would pervert its true meaning into something real ugly.

Case in point...the Tom Clancy novel...Sum of all fears.

Jim :)

I cant argue with you there, as I have noticed that every Tom Clancy movie has been turned into pure crap by hollywood. I love to read his books but will not watch a movie from his novels.

As far as this book getting traction, I mention the name of this book to people in the workplace( I work in Hospitals as a mfg service rep) and most people have never heard of the book and those that have are generally positive about it. Now those that have heard of the book number about 8, but they fear some of the same things that we do it is just they wont do anything about it as they are more concerned with going to bars and parties and the beach. So I dont see the traction that you are getting at but it can be there with the right group. But not being part of the black helicopter group I dont buy into all the conspiresies, I do watch certain parts of our govt. with a different viewpoint.

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UC was written in 1996 during the depths of the Clinton anti gun years. It was powerful to read and the history in it caused me to do a lot of research into the events mentioned, so that I could learn more. But, I recognized it as fiction as viewed it as such and the latter part of the book was read for what it was, fiction. There has been a lot of stuff written and filmed over the years which have an anti government bias ( the recent movie Shooter, for example), so not sure why people believe that this book is any different.

John Ross is a huge 2nd amendment supporter in Missouri. He was quite a bit involved in the multi year battle to get CCW there. He is a solid citizen.

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I have to agree with most who have read it...the first parts are really good.

The last part is totaly out of bounds :angry2:

The book paints the Federal agents as evil and corrupt...In my humble experiance the exact opposite is true.

ALL of the agents I have ever known ..are men of honor!!!!

This book is interesting...but it plays into a conspiracy mentality and portrays gun owners in a very bad light.

Books of this nature have become the play books for a lunatic fringe that we ALL would reject!!!

Jim

Jim, I have to disagree about the last part being out of bounds. With the scenario presented by the book the atf agent was breaking the law to get back at a person that as far as the story was concerned, did not break the law, but had embarrassed the agent. So if it is ok for the fictional character to break the law and use his authority to get his way thru whatever means it took, then it is ok for a fictional character who is the victim to do what is necessary to defend and embarrass a govt. agency. All the book was doing was showing how as govt. gets larger it has groups that abuse the authority and that is the unintended consequence. I will agree that most people in the govt. are decent folks, but I also have met some that dont have the maturity for the job and are cought up in the power of the position they have. I was told as a child and I still believe it when my Grandmother told me that power is an illusion that many people think they have. Sometimes even in fiction there are good guys that take direction from bad people and then they pay a price. If this was a movie it would do well, but there will never be anyone that will make it as hollywood would support it with the finanaces to produce it.

You have valid points my friend!

I respect your opinion...but I think this particular book has gained way too much traction as a tool against our freedoms.

In retrospect many stories that are far worse in content have come to the silver screen.

As far as movies and hollywood go...I love the movie Pearl Harbor...but I puke when I see Alek Baldwin play the part of Doolittle.

This book would make a good movie but I fear the hollywood types would pervert its true meaning into something real ugly.

Case in point...the Tom Clancy novel...Sum of all fears.

Jim :)

Hollyweird is making ATLAS SHRUGGED; so we will see how they would have butchered UC.

Read Atlas Shrugged by Ayn Rand before you read UC. They are essentially the same. I did it backwards and wish I didn't.

FM

Edited by Front Man
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