Dropped round detonation

[G-ManBart]

Mike....is it possible that this story *might* be a fabrication?

Just following suit!

Nice. What a fitting response (and lack thereof to my post to you). You know how you can tell when someone hasn't got anything to back them up? They switch to avoidance and/or stupid humor.

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?...st&p=359887

Funny how you didn't try to poke fun at Benos or suggest that maybe he's lying.

I'm not lying about what happened and I don't think the many people who have described similar things happening to them are lying. If you don't want to believe it, that's your right, but don't insult a bunch of people you don't know and expect to be treated with any respect.

[Carmoney]

Chris, I don't think you or anybody else is lying in this thread.

My intent was to lighten up a thread that I thought was becoming unnecessarily grim and ominous. Stupid humor is a specialty of mine. I should have known better than to try to follow up Merlin's perfect one-liner.

[G-ManBart]

Chris, I don't think you or anybody else is lying in this thread.

My intent was to lighten up a thread that I thought was becoming unnecessarily grim and ominous. Stupid humor is a specialty of mine. I should have known better than to try to follow up Merlin's perfect one-liner.

Gotcha...one of the limitations of the internet, it's pretty hard to pick up on sarcasm etc. R,

[Nik Habicht]

I'm never dropping my loads in a bag and heat sealing it ever again! makes my A$$ pucker just looking at those pics. I'm going to buy a bunch of Dillon ammo boxes from now on, and I will never sit at my loader without my glasses. I am going to write a Large note on my Bench that says EYE PROTECTION!!! Man that is a scary wake up call. Just realized how comfortable I was getting. Time to re evaluate my safe practices. Thank you so much for posting. You might of just saved an eye or someones life.

If you're serious just put safety glasses in the bullet trays of your machines, or if you prefer, leave 'em on top of the top of the primers....

[Carmoney]

Yes, absolutely. Injury to the eyes is the real danger of a round going off outside the chamber of a gun under any circumstances--because basically, you're talking about a loud noise and small pieces of shrapnel flying around--when the cartridge is uncontained, the bullet itself is not really much of a hazard. I wear prescription eyeglasses all the time anyway, but I would never shoot or reload without some sort of eye protection.

(See? A helpful and constructive addition to the thread from ol' Carmoney. Who woulda thought?!)

[askomiko]

I'm never dropping my loads in a bag and heat sealing it ever again! makes my A$$ pucker just looking at those pics. I'm going to buy a bunch of Dillon ammo boxes from now on, and I will never sit at my loader without my glasses. I am going to write a Large note on my Bench that says EYE PROTECTION!!! Man that is a scary wake up call. Just realized how comfortable I was getting. Time to re evaluate my safe practices. Thank you so much for posting. You might of just saved an eye or someones life.

If you're serious just put safety glasses in the bullet trays of your machines, or if you prefer, leave 'em on top of the top of the primers....

Yup, always wear safety goggles! I know one occasion where a reloader got really serious eye damage when he rotated a full primer pick-up tube and a primer (or several) went off.

I only use normal eyeglasses while shooting tough! Hmm. Gotta go and try contact lenses and proper safety glasses with em.

Edited December 8, 2007 by askomiko

[Victor N TN]

this is like SNOPES for IPSC guys. I've heard of it, but never a first hand account.

This will make you stop and think.

[bones507]

this is like SNOPES for IPSC guys. I've heard of it, but never a first hand account.

This will make you stop and think.

I have been reloading single stage on a rock chucker for about 10 years now and have never had an accident, thankfully. I just went from using the drop primer tube to using the RCBS hand primer that i have had for a long time. I figure it takes just a few mins more but its safer as only 1-2 can detonate if they decide to go off instead of a tube of 100.

I also loaded my rounds and threw them in a zip lock baggie if i didnt have any more ammo boxes and would casually toss them on the bed of the truck and not think anything of it while setting up. I WILL CHANGE THAT PRACTICE IMMEADIATELY!!

After reading all this stuff it makes sense to take the extra few minutes or seconds to do things the safe way than sepnd 4-5 hours in the hosp emergency room getting fixed up and telling the cops "Well, this primer detonated when i threw the bag down on the truck and thats why i got this .38 round lodged in my left ear".

[38superman]

I've posted this before, but I will restate it just for grins.

Once upon a time a plastic bin got knocked off my loading bench with about a half dozen loaded rounds in it.

It was a fall of about 3 ft. onto a plywood floor and one of the rounds detonated.

The round that went off hit the floor nose first and left an imprint in the wood surrounded by powder burns.

The brass case was shattered and the primer was blown out, never to be found.

My 7 year old granddaughter was unlucky enough to be standing next to me and the detonation happened right in front of her.

Shrapnel flew everywhere and a piece of it punctured her leg.

At the hospital I had the following conversation with the doctor:

"I have to report this to the authorities"

"Why?"

"By law all gunshot wounds must be reported"

"But she wasn't shot.

It was a freak accident.

A bullet fell to the floor and detonated.

It wasn't in a gun when it went off."

"It doesn't matter. It is a wound that was caused by a bullet."

I really enjoyed the part where I had to explain to three cops and a child welfare official why a 7 year old had a "bullet wound".

No more Federals for me.

Tony

Edited December 17, 2007 by 38superman

[Johann the Horrible]

A while ago, as a LEO at the time I had to guard a VIP on a hunting trip. The last night he threw a packet of cartridges into the fire as a joke. A short while later the cartridges started going off. The bullets stayed in the fire but the cases shot out. This happened because the cases were lighter than the bullets. So 38 Superman, the cops were wrong, the bullet never hit the child, pieces of the case probably did. A cartridge consists of a bullet(the part that comes the front of the barrel), the case(the part that holds everything together) the propellant(the part that burns) and the primer(the guy that causes all the pandemonium). I never had a dropped primer go prematurely on me. Hope it never happens. There is enough other thing to worry about!!

[38superman]

A while ago, as a LEO at the time I had to guard a VIP on a hunting trip. The last night he threw a packet of cartridges into the fire as a joke. A short while later the cartridges started going off. The bullets stayed in the fire but the cases shot out. This happened because the cases were lighter than the bullets. So 38 Superman, the cops were wrong, the bullet never hit the child, pieces of the case probably did. A cartridge consists of a bullet(the part that comes the front of the barrel), the case(the part that holds everything together) the propellant(the part that burns) and the primer(the guy that causes all the pandemonium). I never had a dropped primer go prematurely on me. Hope it never happens. There is enough other thing to worry about!!

You are absolutely correct.

The child was never struck by the bullet, it didn't go anywhere, just rolled across the floor.

She was struck by a fragment of brass from the case which shattered.

That was exactly the point I tried to make with the doctor, but he wasn't interested in the details.

He was hell bent to involve the authorites.

Once I showed them the remains of the brass case and explained what happened, they were satisfied.

I wonder if the doc was dissapointed they didn't put me in handcuffs.

Tony

[Johann the Horrible]

A while ago, as a LEO at the time I had to guard a VIP on a hunting trip. The last night he threw a packet of cartridges into the fire as a joke. A short while later the cartridges started going off. The bullets stayed in the fire but the cases shot out. This happened because the cases were lighter than the bullets. So 38 Superman, the cops were wrong, the bullet never hit the child, pieces of the case probably did. A cartridge consists of a bullet(the part that comes the front of the barrel), the case(the part that holds everything together) the propellant(the part that burns) and the primer(the guy that causes all the pandemonium). I never had a dropped primer go prematurely on me. Hope it never happens. There is enough other thing to worry about!!

You are absolutely correct.

The child was never struck by the bullet, it didn't go anywhere, just rolled across the floor.

She was struck by a fragment of brass from the case which shattered.

That was exactly the point I tried to make with the doctor, but he wasn't interested in the details.

He was hell bent to involve the authorites.

Once I showed them the remains of the brass case and explained what happened, they were satisfied.

I wonder if the doc was dissapointed they didn't put me in handcuffs.

Tony

Doctors kill more people every year than guns. After I took a long look at my life and what Doctors did to me I came to realize that they got closer to killing me than any Cop killer ever did. One of the units that I commanded specialized in tracing and arresting Cop killers. Hell the murderers just shot at me, the Doctors fed me Penicillin!. I hope your grandchild gets over the shock quickly. What happened to you is a one in a thousand if not one in a million. It is one of those things that you just hear about and very seldom see.

[David Sinko]

Many years ago I had a Remington .22 LR Thunderbolt go off when it was halfway in the chamber of my 10/22. It blew out the magazine and the extractor. I never could figure out if it was the force of being stripped from the magazine that did that or what.

The very first gun magazine I ever bought (I think that was '78 or '79) had an article about how batteries can and did set off loose rounds (also .22 rimfire) carried in a shirt pocket.

All things considered, a primer is still a magnificent piece of engineering.

Dave Sinko

[Johann the Horrible]

Many years ago I had a Remington .22 LR Thunderbolt go off when it was halfway in the chamber of my 10/22. It blew out the magazine and the extractor. I never could figure out if it was the force of being stripped from the magazine that did that or what.

The very first gun magazine I ever bought (I think that was '78 or '79) had an article about how batteries can and did set off loose rounds (also .22 rimfire) carried in a shirt pocket.

All things considered, a primer is still a magnificent piece of engineering.

Dave Sinko

Saw the same thing happen with a semi-auto pistol. It turned out that the bottom end of the breach-face was sharp(I believe that the primer must have been proud as well). Made a nice mess of the gun. In a rimfire this could happen ever easier as th priming compound is on the outside of the round.

[flutedchamber]

Chris,

I realize that I have come onto this thread rather late, but I thank you for the warning, and I am glad that you were not hurt. This is what I am afraid will happen to people who tumble loaded ammo to clean off any lube, besides possibly altering the powder burn rate.

[G-ManBart]

Chris,

I realize that I have come onto this thread rather late, but I thank you for the warning, and I am glad that you were not hurt. This is what I am afraid will happen to people who tumble loaded ammo to clean off any lube, besides possibly altering the powder burn rate.

From what I saw I can't imagine a round in a tumbler ever getting anywhere near enough speed to make the same thing happen as when I dropped this one. Everything I've heard points to the fact that the ammo manufacturers tumble their loaded ammo to clean it prior to boxing. I really wish we could get someone in the industry to either refute or support that point. On altering the burn rate I'd think that being shipped for days on end in ships, trucks, trains etc ought to shake the heck out of the powder and if it caused a problem we'd know about it. I've read where guys have put ammo in a tumbler, ran it overnight and then chrono'd it with the same batch of ammo that wasn't tumbled with no difference. I really wish I still knew some of the guys back at Alliant from when I lived near there....bet I could have gotten them to provide some insight on the topic. With that said, I don't tumble my loaded ammo because I don't need to and it's too much trouble! R,

[jjlefty51]

Wow. Being a new reloader that dumps them in a bucket then sizes them as you described I think I will approach it differently. I am using small rifle primiers which I understand to be harder than pistol. But wow that scare the cr** out of anyone.

[PistolPete]

Now here is my question.... If a round goes off that is not supported in a barrel will it have enough velocity to do any damage or injury to a person. Looking at the photos my guess would be "yes". Seeing the brass split like that would say that might be more dangerous than the bullet itself. At my local range they empty the trash cans by burning them. When they do you hear bullets going off from the heat. I'm guessing this isn't very safe?

Thanks,

Pete

[G-ManBart]

Now here is my question.... If a round goes off that is not supported in a barrel will it have enough velocity to do any damage or injury to a person. Looking at the photos my guess would be "yes". Seeing the brass split like that would say that might be more dangerous than the bullet itself. At my local range they empty the trash cans by burning them. When they do you hear bullets going off from the heat. I'm guessing this isn't very safe?

Thanks,

Pete

It all comes down to basic physics. The cartridge isn't supported, as you mentioned. Because of that, the lighter part (case) is going to move the most and the heavy part (bullet) isn't going move far. In my case the bullet went through the cardborad box and then a short distance...can't recall what I wrote, but maybe two feet or less. The case went up to the ceiling with enough speed to put a pretty deep hole in the ceiling. Getting hit with the case in the eye would probably cost you the eye. Other than that, the shrapnel would be my worry, but only in my eyes....okay, the groin would probably be bad too Other than that I don't think there's much chance of getting hurt beyond a pinprick from the flying brass. I'd guess you'd get a decent bruise from the bullet if your hand or leg was right next to it when it went off, but no more.

[pjb45]

Did you get a new reloader--gman?

[G-ManBart]

Did you get a new reloader--gman?

Not yet, but I'm ordering a 1050 soon. Wifey was just going to buy it for me, so I decided to make it my Christmas present and let the family chip in some for it.

[Keith_J]

Pistol primer tests use a drop weight test. The weight is 1.94 ounces and the height of the drop that should set off 100% of the primers is 11 INCHES.

Now that establishes the energy needed to set it off...using half the weight but double the drop height means the energy is the same.

Also, the minimum height of drop is in the 2 inch range. All with a standard 0.100" diameter firing pin.

Yes, I do believe this can happen.

[Duckbuster]

I've always thought it might happen, but never gave it a second thought until now. Glad I saw everyone's stories and Glad you're ok. I have a friend at work who did the same thing except he had a .22 round jam and discharge while he was trying to jack the chamber. He lost an eye, but he still considers himself lucky.

[JKSNIPER]

2 incidents to speak about .

#1 just happened here at our local L.E. range.

L.E.O. training with his AR-15 had an A.D. with the weapon pointed downward and it hit concrete. The concrete and fragments spalled back up and some of it went under his eye pro and avulsed his cornea of his eye.

One of the EMTs that responede to assist him asked if he wore contact lenses and when the guy said no the EMT realized that the thing sticking out of his eye was his cornea.

He WAS wearing eye pro unknown which brand/type.

#2 a L.E. sniper friend of mine was shooting in the rain. His eye pro kept fogging up and he removed same .

Big mistake.

I think it was the 2nd of third round fired AFTER he removed his eye pro that just blew up in his weapon(Rem 700 .308 PSS) and he caught a load of brass frag right in his eyes.

2 eye surgeries removed a crap load of brass from his eyes.

He was fortunate to not be blinded by this accident however he IS night blind as the damage to his cornea caused light seen at night to make star patterns in his eyes.

The rifle was snet to remington and a determination as to what the exact cause was never made.

Possibly a double charged round (Factory ammo) possibly over pressurized chamber due to water in chamber or wet ammo.

Unknown why it happened but the lesson here is WEAR YOUR EYE PROTECTION.

You only get 2 eyes. Keep them safe.

I leave my eye pro (Have multiple pairs) on my tools so I have to lift/move them to operate the tool thereby reminding me to WEAR THEM.

I would leave them on my reloading press or at the reloading table to force myself to use them.

Bart and everyone else that has has accidents thank God you're all ok and were smart enough to be wearing your eye pro.

JK

[photog]

Lee equipment specifies CCI or Winchester primers in their Pro1000, because of the lower detonation tendencies. Is there any conclusive evidence that Federals or Remingtons are more likely to be accidentally detonated (vs. CCI/Win)?