Cheap O/U's, are they worth anything?

[straightshooter1]

Triggers is another difference. The less expensive (OK, cheap) shotguns have rough triggers and you won't do your best, at least with clays, using them. On Stoegers, for example, there is a case hardening which, when a gunsmith tries to smooth the triggers, turns out to be a very thin coating, and the steel beneath is so soft, the trigger job will not hold.

The operation of the gun, in opening and closing, is more difficult (rougher) with the cheap guns. Most all new guns are stiff, but not rough like the Stoegers, and to some extent, the Mossbergs I have seen.

Extractors are slooooooow, but ejectors can be used like extractors simply by placing your had over the fired shell(s) and letting them pop out into your hand.

Used Citoris are pretty easy to find and CDNN has Cynergys on close-out. I have a 26" and a 28" Cynergy and love them both.

Don't buy some cheap gun, rather look for the used Citori, Cynergy or Winchester 101. For $800 +/- you can have a nice gun for the field or clay sports.

Bob

[Jim Norman]

I am hardly an authority on OU shotguns, (or any guns for that matter) but here is my expreriance. I WANTED an O/U for a long time. I decided I would buy one, so I went to the stores and hefted many in the under 1k range. I wound up with a Citori XS, Why? Because I could shoulder the gun without it catching me in the arm pit. The length of the pull was exactly the same as the Berretta, but the palm swell was in a slightly different location and the Browning just came right up.

Don't buy a cheap gun if you expect to stay happy. You won't get your money back and you'll only wind up spending that money and a bit more to get a good gun, which makes the good gun much more expensive unless you bought it first and eliminated the cheap gun. (Cheap and $600 don't really mix that well in my mind, but...)

So find a gun that fits and buy it. You'll use it and you'll like it as opposed to cursing it, letting it collect dust and spending the money twice.

Jim

[Madmark]

Among the cheap guns you've looked at, the ugliest is the best. The Remington SPR310 (Baikal IZH27) is a good buy for the money. The fit and finish on these guns is not what you'd find on a Browning or Beretta, but they are durable and dependable. Out of the box they are functional, but with a little tweaking are a joy to shoot. There is a forum at Shotgunworld that contains many good tips and tricks on tweaking these guns. Check it out here.The Mossbergs, CZ's, and other Turkish guns have a history of spotty metalurgy and bad firing pins. I had looked at the DeHaans, which are upgraded versions made by the same company as the rest of the Turkish guns (Huglu). I have not owned any of the Turkish guns, but If I was going to buy one, it'd be a DeHaan. (They come with an extra set of firing pins, the weak link in the Turkish guns)

Some other good buys in budget o/u's are the Lanbers, Veronas, and Yildiz guns.

The only reason I sold my SPR310 was because it didn't fit me. I shot it in all different conditions, and the only FTF I ever had was due to lack of cleaning. If one could be had for under $400, and it fits you, you would not go wrong buying it.

The SPR310 has mechanical triggers, selective extractors/ejectors, an auto safety that is easily disabled, and the chokes are the Colonial Tru-Choke .795x44TPI double lead thread.

That being said, I purchased a Browning Sporting Clays Special Edition and a Beretta 686 Silver Pigeon, both for under a grand each. Good buys are out there on the used market. If you can pony up the extra dough for a better quality used gun, do it. But don't let a lack of expendable cash keep you from enjoying the clays games. Buy the best you can afford before the start of the shooting season, and get out and break some clays!!

Good luck on your search!

[Michael Carlin]

I always coveted an over/under but could not bring myself to pay the kind of money the O/U of the current rage draws.

About a three years ago I was at a High Power Rifle match in Eau Claire WI, and we were rained out. So my gunsmith and I found ourselves at Scheels in Eau Claire. Dale drew my attention to a Marlin model 90 in 12 gauge on the used rack; it seems to me that it was priced at $299.00. He told me it had been there in April some five months earlier.

Haggling is a family affliction and I offered the salesman 200 for it, reasoning that it had not moved since April. He came back and said that the Manager would let it go for the $219 he had allowed for it on trade. I bought it.

It is a fine over under, and fits me well. It has broken a few birds for me, and is a pleasure to shoot. This year my SO and I are going to take some lessons and really learn to shoot a shotgun. I am shopping for a 20 gauge Marlin 90 for her!

My gunsmith says that the Model 90 was made "like a bank vault" and will probably outlast me easily.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=85516342

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=85613019

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=85644439

Edited November 24, 2007 by Michael Carlin

[Bret Heidkamp]

Don't buy some cheap gun, rather look for the used Citori, Cynergy or Winchester 101. For $800 +/- you can have a nice gun for the field or clay sports.

Bob

+1 Lots of the cheap O/U's feel like canoe paddles. The fit and finish are pretty rough, too. Of CRITICAL importance is fit. Try to find something with an adjustable cheekpiece if you don't fit a standard gun. You can add an adjustable later, too, for about $150 clams.

Get to the impact board (not pattern board!) and see where it hits. Try about 16 yards with an improved or so choke. Stand in your start position, put shotgun to shoulder, just like you would on a clay bird and fire immediately. Trick is not to correct it by sighting, you want the natural impact to show up. This is an eye-opener for some as their guns will be WAY off, even at close range. The only way to change this is to move the cheekpiece and recoil pad.

Sorry if this was a slight drift, but I found this is the single most important thing, much more than price. The shotgun must shoot to where you look, and this is the ONLY way to tell if it fits you. That $500 saved will p*ss you off so bad later if the shotgun doesn't fit...

[JDBraddy]

Some games, like benchrest rifle, are all about the equipment. Other games, like Skeet and Sporting Clays are all about your skill. For those games, you buy the best equipment you can afford up front, and hope you can learn to shoot as well as it will. In 1994, I bought a Remington 1100, and I couldn't hit a damn thing. I used it about four months and was so disgusted with it, I went and traded it in on a new SKB-685. Another customer who was in the store, bought the used Remington for less than half what I'd paid for it, before I had even left the store. He followed me outside and asked if I wanted to shoot a few rounds of skeet with him, to try out our new purchases. I said OK. He shot 100 strait with that Remington right in front of me. The gun wasn't the problem. He gave me a little coaching and my scores doubled over the next several months. I just sold my used SKB-685 for $50 more than I paid for it new, back in 1994. Right now, I'm shooting a Browning 525 "Sporting Clays", that's hardly broken in yet. I've come close a time or two, but have yet to break my first 100 strait. Moral of the story, I doubt I could hit one more bird with a $20,000 Perazzi, than I can with this Browning. Do without a while if you have to, look and see what the better shooters are using, and ask to try them out untill you get a feel for the differences between them. Once you have some idea of what you'd be happiest with, save, scrape, sell something, whatever you have to, to get a gun you know you can live with, then forget a bout the equipment race, get a little instruction, and shoot the hell out of whatever you've got!

[Putty]

Dang, where were you when I was selling 2 perfect Beretta o/u's BL models for $450 ea.?

Go beretta baby, me loves my silver pigeon..swings like a dream, drops em like a nightmare.

[Hank Ellis]

Thread drifting a bit.

I had never shot a shotgun in my life till late 2005 when Katrina came along and I realized I didn't have a scattergun in the safe. My bad.

On the recommendations of the fine individuals here, picked up a Rem 870 Turkey model which has a 21" ribbed barrel and screw in chokes. Figgered I'd better get to the clays range and get competent with the gun. Didn't take long to figure out that the turkey gun was not the best choice for clays. Not enough barrel length. Kinda like the sight radius thing in handguns. Found a 28" tube on eBay and shot that a while. Started having a bit of success but noticed that my score would drop a couple birds every round. Bottom line was the 870 was beating the poop out of me. New gun time.

The clays guru told me to get a Beretta 391 as an all around clays gun in the under $1500 range. Shot that for 5,000 rounds. Somewhere in that time I somehow became a 'regular' at the clays range and the old guys started to help me out. Most of the help was in the mental part of the game but there was several one-liners that stuck in the cranium. One was, "It's not possible to make one shotgun do every one of the games the best it can be shot." Another was "One of these days, and you will know when, you'll drop that auto and go with a OU."

Well, I just hit that point. I figured out that a trap gun and a skeet/sporting clays gun are two different animals. I also shot a OU for the first time and marveled at how much the banging and clanging the bolt of an auto makes. And it's not the same as the 870 for some reason. Sure you can make one gun semi sorta work for all the games and for 90% of scattergunners its OK. But when you know, you know.

So again, you can follow some cheap path, but don't. Buy a quality Beretta or Browning OU in the $1500 range. Have someone semi-competent fit the gun to you. Or fit it yourself with a couple boxes of shells and the pattern board and go to town.

I've worn your shoes and have walked your path.

Oh yeah, I still take the 870 Turkey out a few times a year and pump some buckshot into IPSC targets just to stay current with the gun. Totally freaks outs the Fudds at the clays range.

[Kimberkid]

Update:

Did a little hands on research this weekend. I went to a couple stores and handled a few of these low end guns, looked closer and compared. Remington 390's are out, the wood on a couple of them seemed almost plastic and looked sure to break very soon. Opening and closing them was tough, too tough, like bad fitting tough. 2 different Mossbergs were in suprisingly good shape, opened and closed smooth, but firm and secure with wood that while bargain grade, seemed durable.

When compared to new Cynergy's, Citori's, and various Beretta models I was shocked. This is definetly the way I will go. I also got 2 sales offers via PM (thanks a ton guys) and a line on one locally.

I also know that Grandpa has a 12 ga. Citori that is a mate to the 20 ga. that the little brother ended up with. There was a rumor around the Thanksgiving table that it didnt really get shot anymore, and might be available for long term loan.

I think I am gonna bide my time for a little while and see what my best options are. Thanks again everyone for the assistance.

[dirtdawg]

I've "tried" shooting a sub $500 O/U, Lanber, Saiga (?) and such. Yeah they go bang but the fit, trigger, mechanics and balance are all over the place. It is possible to get a nice shooting one-but how often have ya won the lottery?

If cost is the main concern, find an old Citori or 686 or even SKB (watch for finish issues ).

Good luck!

[Hank Ellis]

Well, I've played with that Franchi that I mentioned a few posts ago for a couple of cases of shells. Decided not to buy it. For some reason I just can't get comfortable with it. My scores were nowhere near what they should be and not all the lost birds were due to me just flat missing them.

I'll wait for now and continue with the 391. At least I know what it will do. I'll save the bucks and something better will come along in the future.

[Irishlad]

Keep in mind the original premise with KimberKid was no more than 500 rounds a year, which is why the "cheaper O/U's" came into discusion.

Once you are into real "clay target" shooting, choices(good ones) narrow down substantially. But, there are more choices today that have "promise", than 10 years ago...maybe.

You can easily detect that by going to large shoots and see what people actually use. Generally, there's a good reason for that.

[TLD]

Thanks guys again for everything.

I have found models from Mossberg, Remington, CZ and Charles Daly that all fit my criteria for about $600 off the rack. Any features I should stay away from?

I had assumed 26" barrels would swing better for Skeet, but if they are really that much more punishing, then 28" is the way I will go. That was more of an assumption than a learned preference. Have mostly shot 28" and 30" guns in the past.

An O/U has to be held, shot, and fit by someone that knows what they are doing (and that could be you). It does make a big difference in your performance.

I'd opt for a used Beretta or Browning over a new gun that you have mentioned. Beretta made a butt ugly field gun that several guys I know shot in clays. I think it retailed for under $1,000 new, way less used. Several guys in my shooting circle tried the Mossbergs and had issues - barrel regulation, trigger problems mainly.

[hax]

Sorry to dig up an old post, but...

I purchased a lamber over under for my first gun when I was 18 and I still use it today. It was under 500$ at the time and has interchangeable chokes. The only thing I want to change on it is, I would like to get external chokes for it. It is a great 12 ga and has served me well. Never had any problems with it and I've put it through its courses. I would do the same thing again.

[Albertl35]

Also check ads at www.trapshooters.com - you can find good deals there also

[EkuJustice]

I'll reply. With a quality OU if you have an issue it's rebuild able and parts are gonna be avaliable. With the cheap ones that generally don't last on the market long parts can be hard to get. Your also more hit or miss on the cheap guns as far as barrel regulation as I have seen guns with a lot of regulation problems with the barrels not hitting to the same place

[Albertl35]

Get a used Browning Citori...till you decide you want to do more...then it gets expensive...;-)