Supreme Court

[Nik Habicht]

oh no, another closed thread on the way? c'mon, guyz...we're talking the 2nd amendment here!

No --- we're talking Brian's rules here. It's his house. There's plenty of other places to debate politics and the second amendment on the net......

[JThompson]

You are right Nik, but if this one goes badly Brian's house will be closed. I don't think Brian's Airsoft forum would be the same.

Let's keep the thread informative and open.

[Heavy Metal Only]

No, let's not suggest what militia means or drag the NRA into this.

So far, this thread has managed to be very educational and fairly non-political (as far as this subject can be).

That is why it has remained open.

Sorry sir, I don't mean to have another topic closed on accout of my big mouth. Im just a proud American that will Not give up my arms.

[ima45dv8]

No, let's not suggest what militia means or drag the NRA into this.

So far, this thread has managed to be very educational and fairly non-political (as far as this subject can be).

That is why it has remained open.

Sorry sir, I don't mean to have another topic closed on accout of my big mouth. Im just a proud American that will Not give up my arms.

Understood.

And you're not alone.

[mjbine]

No, let's not suggest what militia means or drag the NRA into this.

So far, this thread has managed to be very educational and fairly non-political (as far as this subject can be).

That is why it has remained open.

Sorry sir, I don't mean to have another topic closed on accout of my big mouth. Im just a proud American that will Not give up my arms.

Understood.

And you're not alone.

+1

[Heavy Metal Only]

Whats next the band of sharped sticks, or having too many stones?

[Larry White]

Whats next the band of sharped sticks, or having too many stones?

We may have to find out who has stones.---------------Larry

[Heavy Metal Only]

Whats next the band of sharped sticks, or having too many stones?

We may have to find out who has stones.---------------Larry

I have rocks, $100.00 bucks per lb anyone interested?

[tightloop]

"Take it as written" isn't as simple as it sounds, more's the pity. If it were, courts would have no such thing as opinions which they've had since inception.

Life isn't black and white and neither are our laws, thankfully. To that end, here's to hoping that logic and common sense prevail and our rights are not infringed.

While life is not black or white, the laws which govern our lives and more specifically, the principles behind the laws should be very close to black and white...You don't rob a bank a little bit, you either did or you didn't...you don't kill someone a little, either you did or you didn't...

The Framers either gave us the individual right to possess firearms or they didn't...we should not be searching for some way to untie the Gordian Knot here.

The SC should concern themselves with the real problematic cases which confront this nation...like how are we going to get OJ in jail, why isn't Al Sharpton doing time for lying to the Grand Jury in the Brawley case among others...stop trying to pose a question where none should be....

and yes, Big Dave, some of us try to make our decisions bases on black or white, look hard enough and there is very little gray in most of them.

[Carlos]

You are right Nik, but if this one goes badly Brian's house will be closed. I don't think Brian's Airsoft forum would be the same.

Let's keep the thread informative and open.

On that note, here is the very most neutral and short description I could find of what factually transpired yesterday (short answer: we have to wait until the 20th for a possible response yea or nay).

Here is the LINK

or try:

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/nation/ba...,0,425366.story

Let's keep this thread open by leaving the politics out of it.

[Jim Norman]

One other point, and please understand this is directed at no one in particular and all of us in general.

We do not need to shout out how "they" will take my guns when....

This is exactly waht we don't need as an image. Look at it from the POV of the anti's. A group of people screaming about how they will not obey laws and those people (us) are armed. Now I know what we are saying is not what they are hearing, but it is what they are hearing that may determine the future.

Let us all speak calmly and clearly and state our case in consice legal, moral and constitutional terms. Slogans and shouting while acting like a bunch of rejects from a "Blue Collar Comedy" video will not win for our side.

And no offense to my fellow BCC rejects, but now is not the time to look like Larry the Cable Guy's family reunion.

Let us set the tone above what the left does.

Jim

[Alan Meek]

One other point, and please understand this is directed at no one in particular and all of us in general.

We do not need to shout out how "they" will take my guns when....

This is exactly waht we don't need as an image. Look at it from the POV of the anti's. A group of people screaming about how they will not obey laws and those people (us) are armed. Now I know what we are saying is not what they are hearing, but it is what they are hearing that may determine the future.

Let us all speak calmly and clearly and state our case in consice legal, moral and constitutional terms. Slogans and shouting while acting like a bunch of rejects from a "Blue Collar Comedy" video will not win for our side.

And no offense to my fellow BCC rejects, but now is not the time to look like Larry the Cable Guy's family reunion.

Let us set the tone above what the left does.

Jim

Jim,

Very well Said

Alan

[ima45dv8]

One other point, and please understand this is directed at no one in particular and all of us in general.

We do not need to shout out how "they" will take my guns when....

This is exactly waht we don't need as an image. Look at it from the POV of the anti's. A group of people screaming about how they will not obey laws and those people (us) are armed. Now I know what we are saying is not what they are hearing, but it is what they are hearing that may determine the future.

Let us all speak calmly and clearly and state our case in consice legal, moral and constitutional terms. Slogans and shouting while acting like a bunch of rejects from a "Blue Collar Comedy" video will not win for our side.

And no offense to my fellow BCC rejects, but now is not the time to look like Larry the Cable Guy's family reunion.

Let us set the tone above what the left does.

Jim

Thanks for the wisdom, Jim.

That's got "Post of the Month" quality all over it.

[ChrisStock]

Thanks for putting a little more succinctly than I could, Jim. I have been formulating the thought for a few hours, but apparently you were quicker off of the line. Well said!

[Carmoney]

And no offense to my fellow BCC rejects, but now is not the time to look like Larry the Cable Guy's family reunion.

Guess it's time to look like him before he became a "cable guy"--back when he wore button down shirts, khakis, and white tennis shoes: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCJ7ESnjvHk

[SA Friday]

Carlos, your explination of the case and situation are perfect. Keep it coming. This is the best explinations I can find anywhere on this case, and its quite literally the most important case the SC has had to address since US v Dickerson.

[Jim Norman]

Three possibilities?

1) SCOTUS refuses to hear the case. DC ban overturned, but only applies to DC. Balance of US law un affected. Hollow victory for our side

2) SCOTUS hears case

a) They rule that the Second Amendment to the Constitution is an Individual Right and other than very narrow exceptions, this ban, and others of it's kind are moot. We win big, for now. The Anti's will of course move into other methodology to disarm us. Taxes on ammo, range restrictions, noise, pollution.

They rule that DC actually does have the right to ban ownership and possession with in the city limits. We lose, our children lose, the country loses and the world loses.

Best for us is 2a, Federal Court upheld, Second is an Individual Right and new laws become much more difficult. Existing laws are revisitied in an effort to remove them from the books, Examples being NY, NJ, CA HI and MD along with Morton Grove.

Obvious worst case is 2b, Local and state governments can regulate a constitutionally guaranteed right. How long before we register fax machines, copiers and the Internet?

And yes, I am that paranoid. Look at the enhanced OnStar system if you think that there are not people that want total control over all of our actions.

Jim

Edited November 14, 2007 by Jim Norman

[BigDave]

and yes, Big Dave, some of us try to make our decisions bases on black or white, look hard enough and there is very little gray in most of them.

Either there is grey, or there is none, right?

Killing someone is an all or nothing proposition - yes. Killing someone with malice of forethought = murder. Killing someone without malice of forethought = manslaughter. Killing somone in self-defense - hopefully nothing.

Don't misunderstand me - I agree with you. The whole lot has gotten completely out of hand, and not just on the issue of the 2nd (just look how the 4th has be eviscerated in recent years) and the SC would be wise to get back to basics with a focus on individual rights and liberty.

[tightloop]

and yes, Big Dave, some of us try to make our decisions bases on black or white, look hard enough and there is very little gray in most of them.

Either there is grey, or there is none, right?

Killing someone is an all or nothing proposition - yes. Killing someone with malice of forethought = murder. Killing someone without malice of forethought = manslaughter. Killing somone in self-defense - hopefully nothing.

Don't misunderstand me - I agree with you. The whole lot has gotten completely out of hand, and not just on the issue of the 2nd (just look how the 4th has be eviscerated in recent years) and the SC would be wise to get back to basics with a focus on individual rights and liberty.

I am not a constitutional scholar, but have our individual liberties just slipped away a little at a time or was there a pivotal point after which we lost them. We do desperately need to return to the days of having the highest court in the land understand that the country was founded on Individual liberties, not a huge confrontational, uncooperative and decidedly left leaning government decided what was best for "the little man" who could not decide for themselves...

As we stated on another thread, it goes back to voicing your opinion in a democratic and constitutional manner, by voting each and every time you can; to insure that your ideas are at least heard and hopefully followed by those who are elected..seems like a long long time ago that we had elected representatives from the local to the President that really followed the wishes of those who put them into office...and on a final note, we need to make it lots easier to remove those that do not follow the wishes of those that elected them...

[AikiDale]

If my reading of history is anywhere near correct we have always been on the edge.

"When the freedom they wished for most was the freedom from responsibility, then Athens ceased to be free and never was free again." -- Edith Hamilton

[smokshwn]

Dale,

That quote hits damn near on the button.

[XRe]

That quote hits damn near on the button.

Unfortunately, I fear its a bit too close for comfort...

[J-Ho]

One other point, and please understand this is directed at no one in particular and all of us in general.

We do not need to shout out how "they" will take my guns when....

This is exactly waht we don't need as an image. Look at it from the POV of the anti's. A group of people screaming about how they will not obey laws and those people (us) are armed. Now I know what we are saying is not what they are hearing, but it is what they are hearing that may determine the future.

Let us all speak calmly and clearly and state our case in consice legal, moral and constitutional terms. Slogans and shouting while acting like a bunch of rejects from a "Blue Collar Comedy" video will not win for our side.

And no offense to my fellow BCC rejects, but now is not the time to look like Larry the Cable Guy's family reunion.

Let us set the tone above what the left does.

Jim

Git 'er done Jim

[itento]

Changing the "they" to "us". When I moved to my current location form Maryland and joined the local gun club, I was told that the club was considered possibly subversive and was briefed that way to new soldiers at the nearby Army post during their local area initiation breifing. I kind of doubted that that was true (considering a good number of our members are retired military) but we had only a few law enforcement officers and active duty military members. Our recruitment was almost exclusively at gun shows. Over the last 4 years we have turned our membership around dramatically. We started getting more and more active duty ( young & energetic ) through running activities (specialty matches, IPSC, IDPA, W3G, Sporting Clays). We also reached out to our local Sheriff's and Police Departments. We gave complementary memberships to 3 Sheriffs and 3 Police Chiefs and have 2 Sheriff's Depts conducting training and qualifications on our range. Over the last two weeks we ran qualifications for the Post Security (130 civilian contractors). The best part is that this last weekend our mayor joined the club. This didn't really cost the club anything but a little hard work. I feel we will need all the friends we can get in the near future.

Edited November 15, 2007 by itento

[Heavy Metal Only]

George Washington said once "A free country should be armed"