Why no camo?

[Zerwas]

I wear the combination of a blaze orange shirt and cut off bdu pants made into shorts. I think it looks good.

Now you see me...

Now you don't...

[Carlos]

The gun grabbers don't care, that's true.

There are folks out there, though, who are on the fence. Who don't know what to think. Who may not be gun owners/shooters but who just might become avid participants and supporters of the sport if given a chance. They are on the outside looking in, trying to figure out what they're seeing/hearing about. Being easy to pigeonhole as being extreme paramilitary sorts makes it too easy to turn off these people who don't yet know better, and may not once they get an incorrect impression of what we do.

Cutting them some slack here, but the press, also, sometimes doesn't get past the surface to find the real story. A picture is worth a thousand words. A shooter wearing a SVI team shirt = sport shooting. A shooter wearing digital camo and web gear = military shooting.

Are we extreme? Yes, to many we are, and proudly so, as far as gun rights go. Are we paramilitary? No, we are not. Why make it easy for the antigun crowd to misrepresent who we are - people having fun shooting. Why make it easy for the press to run what few pics there are of the sport, showing something we are not about.

Do I object to RealTree camo? I don't, and I don't think USPSA/IPSC does either. Military style clothing/camo is what can be misunderstood by those who dont know (the potentially interested), may be misinterpreted by those who don't check their facts (the press) and will be both misrepresented and misinterpreted by those who actively oppose us (the anti's).

my .02

Kevin C

Well said. In addition, we are also a region within IPSC, worldwide. Some of our fellow regions have national laws that ban civilians from any sort of activity that might be construed as either military or police training, and some countries even go so far as to ban civilian use of military calibers like 9x19mm. If military/police uniforms become the norm in IPSC or USPSA, it will cause problems for some regions, and it could lead to the end of IPSC in those countries. If a prohibition on IPSC seems far-fetched, please consider what is going on in Denmark right now (though granted, our fellow shooters did it to us there).

[Jay6]

Not sure why so many people care about the dress of others here. Who cares what someone is wearing for clothes when they shoot? To be honest this sounds like some of the women who work in my office!

I for one wear a suit to work everyday, and a large amount of my outdoor attire is camo (I do a great deal of bow and turkey hunting) so what would be the problem with me wearing something olive drab or camo to a match (as long as it did not pose a safety risk)? I am definitely not in a militia, and the last time I checked I was a fairly sane individual. Also being fairly new to the sport I am grateful that the people at my first matches could have cared less what I was wearing as long as I was safe and having fun.

[-JQ-]

If you are a policeman - wear a police uniform. - If you are not - don't.

If you are a Fireman - wear fireman digs. - If you are not - don't.

If you are in the military - wear military style clothing. - If you are not - don't.

I guess I'm stuck wearing the clothes of a computer nerd...dang...I knew I should've been a fireman.

[Crusher]

Why no camo?

Keeps the "Ramblo and Mall Ninja" wannabees in the friggin closet where they belong for all others if "you is-be"

In the earlier days of IPSC/USPSA you would have been amazed at the attiudes and dialog of some> In the beginning it WAS considered "combat handgunning" This is just a carry over from those days.

[EricBudd]

I think there is a matter of degrees that we are overlooking. I doubt many match directorc care about BDU or 5.11 pants along with a UnderArmor or TechWear shirt (or any other civilian shirt). The concern is the guy who shows up in full camo gear and starts painting his face at the safe table.

[spartacus]

Agree with the full camo is a no-no. But like said before, camo is in style, i bought a pair of camo shorts from Kohls, they're a little baggy so i can move about freely, and have pockets. They're the desert camo, and i wear them to shoot all the time. I'm not trying to be a commando, they're just really comfortable.

[Jay6]

I think there is a matter of degrees that we are overlooking. I doubt many match directorc care about BDU or 5.11 pants along with a UnderArmor or TechWear shirt (or any other civilian shirt). The concern is the guy who shows up in full camo gear and starts painting his face at the safe table.

I know what I said earlier but I guess that situation would be a little much.

[tryan1968]

I think there is a matter of degrees that we are overlooking. I doubt many match directorc care about BDU or 5.11 pants along with a UnderArmor or TechWear shirt (or any other civilian shirt). The concern is the guy who shows up in full camo gear and starts painting his face at the safe table.

+1

[raz-0]

The gun grabbers don't care what you wear. You could wear your little tennis outfit or your golfing nickers and they think you are trash anyway.

I am tired of people side stepping issues, afraid of upsetting someone. I am me and make no apologies to no one.

Rules of any game must be abided by in order to keep a level playing field. However, if a rule is made to keep from looking bad to others...that stinks!

The gun grabbers are after our guns and don't think for a minute that your image has anything to do with it.

Buddy

Yes, but if you take that gun grabber, and have him try and paint us in a negative light, will images of us dressed up like GI Joe be easier to exploit when influencing the average person who doesn't really care that much either way?

It's not about making our enemies like us, it's about giving our enemies a minimum of rope to hang us with.

But it is context sensitive, and thus better left to the host club or MD to make the rule on then USPSA as a whole organization.

[MichiganShootist]

I'm not trying to "bend" the thread... but I think there is another type clothing I see at shooting matches (both USPSA and IDPA) which is probably more likely to give our sports a black eye than camo.

It's some of the "funny" tee shirts.

I know... many are a blast and I have a couple myself... but shirts with slogans on them like the examples below are a gun grabber (or prosecuting attorneys) dream. These are actual shirts I have seen at matches this year.

THERE ARE FEW PERSONNEL PROBLEMS THAT CAN'T BE SOLVED WITH A GOOD MACHINE GUN

MEMBER ---AL QAEDA HUNTING CLUB

GUN CONTROL MEANS HITTING YOUR TARGET

And one that had an IDPA target on the back which was full of bullet holes... there was blood coming out of the holes

It's like the bumper sticker "Keep Honking I'm Re-Loading" it's funny... but it wouldn't be if the driver happened to get into a road rage incident.

[clown]

The gun grabbers don't care what you wear. You could wear your little tennis outfit or your golfing nickers and they think you are trash anyway.

I am tired of people side stepping issues, afraid of upsetting someone. I am me and make no apologies to no one.

Rules of any game must be abided by in order to keep a level playing field. However, if a rule is made to keep from looking bad to others...that stinks!

The gun grabbers are after our guns and don't think for a minute that your image has anything to do with it.

Buddy

+1.

[Jim Norman]

My 10-YO daughter has a camo T-Shirt that says Major Cutie on it, She also has at least one Camo pattern skirt.

I did not buy them for her, they came from a large, well know childrens clothing retailer. Camo is to some extent a fashion statement.

I have a pair of the 5.11 digipat pants. I wish I had bougt a couple more pair when they were availabl ein my size, they fit, they are comfy, they hid all sorts of dirt, grease and grass stains. and they were $6.95 or some such rediculous amount. The plain ones are around $40 a pair.

When I wear them I have on occasion been asked if I am a former Marine. I ALWAY reply that no I am not and that the particular pattern does NOT have the Globe & Anchor and further I would NEVER wear it as I have not earned that right. The only Globe & Anchor I have is from my father, he did earn the right. It is in my display case along with a few other rememberences.

All this aside. The pants stay as does nay good quality rain gear or cold weather gear I might aquire.

Now if only we could get the Swedish Bikini Team to show up and shoot wearing Camo Bikinis.....

Jim

[Carlos]

Why no camo?

Keeps the "Ramblo and Mall Ninja" wannabees in the friggin closet where they belong for all others if "you is-be"

In the earlier days of IPSC/USPSA you would have been amazed at the attiudes and dialog of some> In the beginning it WAS considered "combat handgunning" This is just a carry over from those days.

Seem hard to believe?

Take a look at this video (which hopefully posted correctly) from a 3gun match in the Czech republic (particularly the guy w/ the 12 gauge pistol grip shotgun, hockey helmet & camo pants; he appears to be the RO):

http://www.oktarget.cz/mpegs/2.mpg

Or go to: http://www.oktarget.cz/sport_en.html

Then, 1/2 way down the page, look at: "Action Shooting 1, 2, and 3"

Besides, camo clothing is not banned. But I agree with the current rules discouraging it in our sport.

[gunsablazin]

We had some newbies show up at our local 3-gun match dressed like commandoes, Kabars and the works. I think they felt out of place most of us were wearing shorts and polos. I told them they looked really "tactical" , the ones who came back were dressed more conservatively, problem solved. I refuse to even wear the IDPA "uniform" 511 gear nothing wrong with it mind you, but shorts or jeans and polo's are fine by me. As I shoot in Volunteer country I usually wear orange during football season, supporting the Vol's and being very visible at the same time, well lets just say if I get shot it will be on account of my smart mouth!

Robin

[Echo Four]

I guess it is just me, but I spend a decent amount of time at the range in "camo". I'm not a big fan of running around in the mud and muck which is often at my range if I am wearing most of my clothes. However, I have 15-20 sets of cammies from my days in the Marine Corps. If wearing a pair of them to the range makes me some tacticool mall ninja or some violent idiot- then so be it I guess.

If I'm shooting a match I do tend to wear more acceptable clothing. If my range is actually dry for once I'll usually be in shorts or kahkis and a polo. But I refuse to feel bad about wearing camouflage clothing to the range.

[SV_shooter]

c'mon, you dont like the "ipsc parrot"???? it was on my christmas list this year, but now I'm asking for polo shirts and chino's! I think I saw that Parrot at a gun store in west Hollywood...

I guess image really is everything...

And here I walked around the matches looking at everyones guns!

If you see me at the match, I'm the one wearing the pink furry overalls and the captain America helmet w white mickey mouse boots....

[uscbigdawg]

I'll say this to clarify and bend a smidge. If you have the OBVIOUSLY bought from Gap/Old Navy/other store camo shorts that are cut off faided and fraid, that's one thing. BDU's, ACU's, and bits and pieces there of are not welcome at the club where I shoot at. Understand that if I'm the MD, you'll be goin' home or at least asked to change.

Like I said. I wear this crap every day 'cause I have to. If I don't have to, then well, you don't have to. This applies for PD's that have shown up in the past in their BDU's 'cause they were a "SWAT" or "Special" team.

I want to CLEARLY seperate the two worlds.

Rich

[Nik Habicht]

The gun grabbers are after our guns and don't think for a minute that your image has anything to do with it.

Buddy

I'm not focusing on the gun grabbers --- you can't persuade a zealot. I am focusing on those "anti-gunners"who are anti due to a lack of information: I've managed to change a few minds, I'm working on others, and with this group, esp. in the beginning, image is often a way to begin to establish credibility.....

[buddy_fuentes]

Nik, I don't think my outfit will have much leverage on someones ideas of our sport. Most of them are formed, about guns, by listening to news reports of some creep that shot others for no apparent reason. The real truth of the matter, at the ranges I shoot at, there are almost no spectators. Other than the Gator Classic, in the past year there has been maybe a dozen on the outside. Those were friends/family brought by competitors. So my point is that there is not much image to show to anyone other than your shooting buds.

The only camo I own is a old hunting vest and a light hunting jacket, because I haven't hunted in fifteen years. Camo is not something I would normally wear, but if I saw you show up in your camo's I wouldn't have a second thought. Well...maybe if it were one of the pink camo patterns I've seen. Hmm, we will pass on that conversation.

I usually wear Wrangler shorts and a Magellan fishing shirt. Cooler weather calls for jeans and a jacket.

We should know who we are and be stand-up guys for our Country, beliefs, family, sport, religion and anything else we have a conviction on. I am not ashamed of what I do and will stand up and defend myself. I hope each of you do the same thing, too. We have too many in our society that duck the issues.

We don't have to believe the same thing, but lets stand-up for what we do believe.

Thanks, Buddy

[johnhurd]

You people are so worried about the image you present, I say all humanoid shaped targets should be banned and as far as guns go they kill people they should be thrown out as well. Your PC will enhance the "Slippery Slope" just what the antis want. God I am glad I am old, won't be long before y'all are throwing wet sponges at 8X11 sheets of blank typing paper!!!

[kurtm]

No reason to think the guy in full "tactical gear" is a military wannabee, he could be your local SWAT team member, or from myraid of Governmental L.E. organisations "just wanting to help". I myself like to wear the old Afrika Korp shorts. Just a nice even tan, no pattern what so ever, and the belt buckle sayes "God be with us". Now you can't get better than that! After all IT AINT CAMMO

It is nice to know where I will never attend matches; dressed in my good old O.D. trousers, utility, combat. 1ea-9s-c-9500, and I would like to point out that once a Marine, always a Marine, no former to it! But in closing I would like to have the last laugh...I shot a couple of stages at the 3-gun Nationals in cammo pants, I shot a couple of stages at the 3-gun Nationals in cammo pants NAH NAH NAH KURTM

[Albert Wessels]

I have no objection to "civilian cammo" or hunting cammo worn at the range. I do however think that the full SWAT type uniform with all its bells and whistles may not always be appropiate, especially if worn by people not associated with police/military institutions.

I have been to one or two matches where some of the newbies turn up in weird and wacky tactical clothing draped with all kinds of "gee whiz" gadgetry and all the latest tactical goodies.

I have found that most of them return a lot more conservatively dressed once the guy in the shorts and polo shirt out shoots them completely. Most of them quickly realizes its the shooting that matters, not the clothing.

For the others I have found that a friendly discussion, explaining the reasoning behind the "less agressive" dress code normally works. They either understand and come back a bit more conservatively dressed, or dont come back at all. Those that dont come back normally blames the fact that they are not allowed to wear their "uniform",although I normally get the impression that the fact of getting their butt kicked by a guy in a pair of denim shorts and t-shirt had more to do with their reluctance to return.

Running around under the hot, African sun also has a way of quickly convincing people that all the gear and gadgetry might not be the best option....

[Jim Norman]

There is an aspect to shooting that is being missed here.

At a regular USPSA Pistol Match, shorts and match shirt work fine. At a regular 3-gun tournement, what ever carries your gear works fine, However, when we start talking about different multi-gun match types, like the NC Recon as an example, you start to need to have shall we say "Tactical" gear. You need to carry all your ammo, your rifle/shotgun and your sidearm as well as water and food, ALL DAY. forget the cute cart ( I have one) forget the CR Speed and the race type mag holders. You need to be able to crawl, run, roll and not lose your gear. With all that on, who cares what your clothes are? Jeans and a shirt or BDU, anyone looking at a match like this is either going to say "Cool, where do I sign?" OR "What kind of para-military training camp did I fall into." If the latter, nothing we wear or don't wear is going to change their minds.

I personally like my $6 5.11 Digi-Pats. I only wish I had bought more. THey are comfy and they cost 1/6 what a pair of good jeans cost.

Jim

[TMC]

I think its more a regional thing. Kevin and I shoot in the shadow of the liberal capitol of the country, San Francisco so we don't need any bad press here and guys in tac gear don't help. But if you shoot in an area of the country where seeing a guy in WalMart in full camo doesn't raise an eyebrow because most people in that area hunt and fish then camo on the range would be fine. The problem comes when you have to write rules/guidelines for the whole country and then going conservative is always seems best.

A wise man once said "When you tell somebody somethin', it depends on what part of the United States you're standin' in...as to just how dumb you are" I think the same idea applies to fashion.