Just can't stop thinking about a new gun.

[Flexmoney]

Get away from IPSC.ORG...those aren't the rules in the USA.

Here is where you need to go:

http://www.uspsa.org/

[Steve Moneypenny]

Try the guns see what fits you and your style the best.... go to a match and ask... also I have "heard" that the M&P 5" will be out in january 08... but even the 4" is far superior to the Kahr for the types of competition we do.

as for accuracy.. if you can't hit a plate with the other gun then you have a long way to go ( we all do) before we are more accurate than our pistols.

[98sr20ve]

Get away from IPSC.ORG...those aren't the rules in the USA.

Here is where you need to go:

http://www.uspsa.org/

http://www.uspsa.org/rules/Handgun_15th_2004.pdf

Page 91 of 116 directly from the site you posted says basically no sub 5 lb triggers and only gun's listed on the IPSC website. So I still don't see how the Glock 34/35 is legal in Production.

[Flexmoney]

OK, quit looking at that IPSC stuff.

The rule book on the USPSA site is the most recent version that we use in USPSA.

It happens to be the same as the IPSC rule book...with some VERY minor differences. Those differences are denoted by US versions of the numbered rules. In the Appendix with the Division information, you'll need to look at the USPSA divsions, not the IPSC divisions.

We shoot USPSA in the United States.

You'll want to look at Appendix D9.

[Flexmoney]

And, here is the USPSA Production gun list:

http://www.uspsa.org/rules/production_list.php

[98sr20ve]

And, here is the USPSA Production gun list:

http://www.uspsa.org/rules/production_list.php

Thanks, I was going off the wrong list.

[Steve Moneypenny]

IPSC = HEAVY triggers and rules that change because peopel don't know things.

[98sr20ve]

IPSC = HEAVY triggers and rules that change because peopel don't know things.

OK, I have been dry firing the Glock and the M&P. The M&P in my hand feels fantastic. I wanted to like the Glock because the "gamer" in me wants the longer barrel. But everything about the M&P just seems nicer except for one small thing. The removable rear panel hits my thumb in a odd spot. It was much worse on one gun (which is why I had to go to another dealer). The second one was better but not perfect. I figure some tape or a file would knock down just that one edge and it would be perfect. If the M&P had Glock written on the side I would not hesitate for a second to get it. If I get the shorter M&P it would still work as a cold weather carry piece, same with the smaller Glock 17.

[Flexmoney]

No external modificationa allowed to Production division guns. You can't build up or knock down the grip.

[Kingman]

be careful if you are going to modify the grip. It is a trip straight to open division.

[98sr20ve]

be careful if you are going to modify the grip. It is a trip straight to open division.

But, I can use grip tap to cover the transition? That would actually be fine as well.

[SA Friday]

Yes, you can use grip tape on a production gun according to the USPSA rules.

Steve, You are one of the fortunate people starting this endeavour. You have the ability to receive some of the best assistance in the USA right there in your back yard. ANY of the following people right there in your back yard can help you out in letting you shoot guns of various types already set up for this game, and mentor you through the initial pains of learning:

Todd - EZ Bagger on BE

Hoser - Tom Freeman on BE ( A bit backwards, but thats Hoser )

Lizard - I don't even know if he get on BE anymore, but great mentor.

Stew - EERW on BE

Todd is the one I attached myself to when I started shooting USPSA. He helped me learn a LOT. Hoser runs the IDPA matches at Pueblo West and is a GM shooter. Lizard runs the USPSA matches at Pueblo West, and if I can ever learn as much as him about shooting and guns, I will feel my self blessed. Stew is a Master class production shooter on the brink of GM, and has been shooting USPSA since 1987. This is just a short list of the 100+ shooters that will freely help you out and let you try out their guns so you can make a decision on which gun you would like to get.

Go to another match and ask them millions of questions. I bet Todd would loan you his 34 and gear to shoot the match if you PM him about it. Ask Stew about CZ's. He knows tons about them and shoots them religiously. Shoot Lizard's XD. Bug Hoser about all the rules and the guns that will cross over from IDPA and USPSA.

I hope to see you at a match when I'm back on leave to CO in late October.

[EZ Bagger]

No Problemo. I have a 34 and a 35 and plan on being at Pueblo's match on the 14th. Of course, you could try the open guns too

[98sr20ve]

No Problemo. I have a 34 and a 35 and plan on being at Pueblo's match on the 14th. Of course, you could try the open guns too

Awesome. Thanks a lot.

Steve

[EricW]

The removable rear panel hits my thumb in a odd spot. It was much worse on one gun (which is why I had to go to another dealer). The second one was better but not perfect. I figure some tape or a file would knock down just that one edge and it would be perfect. If the M&P had Glock written on the side I would not hesitate for a second to get it. If I get the shorter M&P it would still work as a cold weather carry piece, same with the smaller Glock 17.

There are 3 interchangeable back grips for the M&P. Do you have any idea which one you were having trouble with? The small and medium are both completely flush to the frame. The large insert actually stands proud of the frame underneath the rear of the slide.

FWIW, my grips cover the rear grip almost entirely on the small and medium inserts. The large piece has that sort of "duckbill" that will remain exposed with my grips. Personally, I would not worry about minor trimming on your grips. As of January 08, virtually every modification to a production pistol save for optics and comps becomes legal in USPSA.

[98sr20ve]

The removable rear panel hits my thumb in a odd spot. It was much worse on one gun (which is why I had to go to another dealer). The second one was better but not perfect. I figure some tape or a file would knock down just that one edge and it would be perfect. If the M&P had Glock written on the side I would not hesitate for a second to get it. If I get the shorter M&P it would still work as a cold weather carry piece, same with the smaller Glock 17.

There are 3 interchangeable back grips for the M&P. Do you have any idea which one you were having trouble with? The small and medium are both completely flush to the frame. The large insert actually stands proud of the frame underneath the rear of the slide.

FWIW, my grips cover the rear grip almost entirely on the small and medium inserts. The large piece has that sort of "duckbill" that will remain exposed with my grips. Personally, I would not worry about minor trimming on your grips. As of January 08, virtually every modification to a production pistol save for optics and comps becomes legal in USPSA.

It was the medium one on both the pistols. I think it's just the gap between the gun and the insert. Grip tap would probably solve the issue on the second sample I looked at. It sure felt nice in my hand other then that one issue. I would never have noticed it on the second M&P if I hadn't noticed it on the first one. I think the first one had a misshaped insert and that made me over aware of it.

[98sr20ve]

Ok, Anyone still reading this thing care to answer a question. I looked at some 1911's today and the slide stop seems odd to me. I have never needed to rack the slide to use a slide stop before but on these guns I can't release it with out getting the tension off the slide. Is that normal? Do I just need practice? Only reason I am considering a 1911 is it's been a gun I always wanted but never owned. I could shoot it in CDP and Production (I think thats the right one) in USPSA.

[AustinMike]

Ok, Anyone still reading this thing care to answer a question. I looked at some 1911's today and the slide stop seems odd to me. I have never needed to rack the slide to use a slide stop before but on these guns I can't release it with out getting the tension off the slide. Is that normal? Do I just need practice? Only reason I am considering a 1911 is it's been a gun I always wanted but never owned. I could shoot it in CDP and Production (I think thats the right one) in USPSA.

I never use the slide stop to release the slide, but that's just me. On a new gun, it might be very stiff. You could shoot a 1911 in Single Stack or Limited 10 (with 10 round mags) in USPSA (or technically in Open too, but why bother.) 1911 isn't a production gun because it's single action only.

[Flexmoney]

You can't shoot a regular 1911 in Production division.

You can in Limited-10 or Single-Stack though.

[98sr20ve]

Ok, Anyone still reading this thing care to answer a question. I looked at some 1911's today and the slide stop seems odd to me. I have never needed to rack the slide to use a slide stop before but on these guns I can't release it with out getting the tension off the slide. Is that normal? Do I just need practice? Only reason I am considering a 1911 is it's been a gun I always wanted but never owned. I could shoot it in CDP and Production (I think thats the right one) in USPSA.

I never use the slide stop to release the slide, but that's just me. On a new gun, it might be very stiff. You could shoot a 1911 in Single Stack or Limited 10 (with 10 round mags) in USPSA (or technically in Open too, but why bother.) 1911 isn't a production gun because it's single action only.

OK, wrong class (brain fade trying to read all these rules). It really seems that my best bet is the 1911 or Glock 34. They both have a great class to shoot in with both groups and both feel good to me out of the box. I will try the 34 in a week and hopefully beg for a opportunity to try a 1911 and see what I like better. I know the 1911 will be the biggest transition as its so different then any other gun I have owned. But that would be fun just the same.

Edited October 4, 2007 by 98sr20ve