Topmaul Posted November 12, 2007 Share Posted November 12, 2007 I am ready to sign up right now LOL! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topmaul Posted November 12, 2007 Share Posted November 12, 2007 neil, then why did they measure the length of our guns in Greece? Trapr To keep the match clean. Certain critical data was recorded about each gun so that any attempts at change could be more easily identified. Actually it's more applicable to Open and Mofified where a shorter barrel and shorter mag tube may be an advantage on Short Courses with limited room to manoeuvre. The type of sights fitted to the gun was recorded as well, amongst other things. One competitor, one gun for the entire match. At the ESC03 match, a first for many, there were some "misunderstandings" and some cries of "foul". We had no such complaints in Kavala. Neil do people really cheat like that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike.45 Posted November 12, 2007 Share Posted November 12, 2007 (edited) Yeah some people do mis-read the rules ! In 2003 in Italy at the first ESC certain countries teams were switching barrels and mag tubes to suit certain stages - and having bemused other nations watch them do it in full view in some safety zones - hence the cries of 'foul !!' Last year there were no gun altering issues by the way it was organised, although by pure coincidence the same country 'team' started introducing very questionable ammunition into their stages - birdshot encased in a plastic sphere, making it almost a slug, when shooting steel with tight no shoots - luckily the IPSC RM and advisors were experianced and on the ball ! Edited November 12, 2007 by mike.45 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Beverley Posted November 12, 2007 Share Posted November 12, 2007 I'd like to give the benefit of doubt. Until 2002/2003 each Region had been interpreting or applying the SG rules in their own fashion so who's to say whether changing equipment had been an acceptable practice or not (in some Regions). January 2002 saw the first set of international comprehensive and independent IPSC SG rules. There was a steep learning curve for some! On the other hand, sadly, there does seems to be a very small minority of shooters who choose to push all the limits and try it on ( but not especially rife in SG). We had learnt the lessons well in 2003 and we were determined to start the 2006 ESC match the right way to avoid any "confusion". I'm seriously considering moving this along one stage further in that I may digitally photograph competitors' guns at registration as a further record and deterrent. It may not be necessary and it may be considered as going too far but if it keeps the match clean then it is probably worth doing. It was nice to come away from ESC06 with no moans, mumblings or accusations about competitor equipment issues. Having said that there was a concern about one type of ammunition and this was dealt with promptly resulting in the ammunition being withdrawn early in the match. Some slugs were also withdrawn but this was for entirely different reasons of a safety nature. I am very pleased to say that the vast majority of competitors are totally honest and honourable. And that's the way it should be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topmaul Posted November 12, 2007 Share Posted November 12, 2007 (edited) I have seen people switch Choke tubes, I don't because it makes things complicated I pretty much stick with Full Choke and a 22 inch barrel that has never let me down, I have missed a few flying clays but I most likely would have missed them with cylinder bore. I am all for clear rules and keeping honest people honest do what you have to do. Edited November 12, 2007 by Topmaul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Beverley Posted November 12, 2007 Share Posted November 12, 2007 Changing choke tubes is specifically allowed, so no problem. You (like me) can carry on missing them clays with whichever choke you like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benelli2 Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 I can't wait is it here yet, when do we start submitting stage designs, I got lots of comments on the ones at Area 6, since they were a little more challanging than what some had been used too jc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topmaul Posted November 14, 2007 Share Posted November 14, 2007 Having never shot a match like this before, I have a few questions 1) How much Ammo? 2) How much of each type? Many of us are not super wealthy, I was just looking for a rough idea. 3) Should I start looking for a new job that pays more? LoL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbrowndog Posted November 14, 2007 Share Posted November 14, 2007 (edited) Generally a sleeve of 250 shot, 50 buck and 50 slug would be enough. But it might be a little tight if you miss some. trapr As to #3...................................yes, considering how much stuff is going up. Edited November 14, 2007 by bigbrowndog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Beverley Posted November 14, 2007 Share Posted November 14, 2007 The last 2 European Championship matches have both seen 21 stages shot over 3 days. Both considered 24 stages, i.e. 8 per day instead of 7 but opted for the safer bet. ESC03 in Italy was just over 240 rounds and slightly over 50% was slug! In truth the amount of slug was over the top, IMO. ESC06 in Greece was just over 300 rounds 15 stages of birdshot (233 rounds), 4 stages of slug (34 rounds) and 2 stages of buckshot (36 rounds - 9 ball). This, IMO, was a better balance but personally I might have been tempted to change another stage or two to buckshot. I've pasted a link to the ESC06 website - CLICK HERE I've also added below a late (but not the absolute final) copy of the ESC06 C of F and the ESC03 C of F. ESC03 was an open and easy C of F with speed being the key element. ESC06 was VERY technical and need a good degree of accuracy as well as speed. Knowledge of how your gun patterns was a big help. At ESC06 some of no-shoots were very, very tight. ESC06_STAGES.pdf ESC_2003.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No.343 Posted November 14, 2007 Share Posted November 14, 2007 how does a guy get a slot for this match? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topmaul Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 Has a website been set up for this match? Every time I think about it I salivate! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrettone Posted February 19, 2008 Author Share Posted February 19, 2008 Has a website been set up for this match? Every time I think about it I salivate! Hey TM, I hear ya bud, and I will fill you in on what I know so far. I just attended the USPSA BoD meeting in Atlanta, GA a few weeks ago. I am currently ironing out some details with our BoD with the Presidents help, and will be posting details within the next 30-60 days once we have the contracts locked-down. This match is going to be absolutely awesome, and we are currently building the "team" necessary to pull it off. Be patient my friend...you will be happy with the results. DVC, Jeff LaFave 2010 Pan American Shotgun Championship MD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topmaul Posted February 22, 2008 Share Posted February 22, 2008 Jeff Thanks, I have a lot of irons in the fire right now also. If there is anything I can do to assist you please let me know. John Williams, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topmaul Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 any updates yet, the whole thought of this match has me ready to dump money into my shotgun, heck I just ordered an optic that cost more than the gun did new. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrettone Posted July 15, 2008 Author Share Posted July 15, 2008 (edited) any updates yet, the whole thought of this match has me ready to dump money into my shotgun, heck I just ordered an optic that cost more than the gun did new. Still in a "holding pattern". I know it is frustrating, but hopefully the end result will justify the means. I will pass information along as soon as I have some definitive answers from USPSA. If you would like to see things move faster, feel free to contact your RD (Regional Director/President) or USPSA direct. DVC Edited July 15, 2008 by Barrettone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrettone Posted August 26, 2008 Author Share Posted August 26, 2008 (edited) Alright Everybody, This is what I know so far: The host AREA will be Area 6. Due to the timing restraints provided by IPSC HQ, we must host the match between April and June in 2010. We all felt that it made more sense to host it in the south since the weather can be less-than-ideal in Michigan that time of year. Couple that with the poor economic climate in Michigan, and the choice was simple. Another contributing factor was the higher density of shotgun shooters in Area 6. We are currently looking at Alabama and Georgia for the match. There are several ranges in the running. The match team consists of the following people at this point (in no particular order): Charles Bond (Logistical Support) Jeff LaFave (MD) Cindy Noyes (Assistant MD) Bill Noyes (Web Design Support) Rob Boudrie (Stats Support) Dave Thomas (Treasurer) John Amidon (Rules Advisor) Mike Voigt (Stage Consultant) Neil Beverly (Rules/Stage Consultant) Paul @ USPSA (Marketing) Chris Thomas (Sponsorship) more to be added I'm sure...especially stage designers like Kurt Miller, Jeff Cramblt, Patrick Kelly, Trapper Swonson etc!!! We are now ready to accept your stage designs. If you have some ideas, email them to me at: jlafave@mich.com. There will be 21 stages shot over 3 days, 7 stages per day (shot in a half-day format). We are leaning toward a Tues-Wed set-up, shooting on Thurs, Fri, and Sat, with Awards, Shoot-offs and tear-down on Sunday. We are also leaning toward a May 2010 match date. We want to be early on the match calendar so there is less chance of conflict with other venues. We will also be working on having alternate shooting venues during the downtime at the match. Maybe some clays shooting, etc... We will also be working on a place to have a gathering before and after the match. I cannot get into details on this yet, as it is contingent on the overall match budget. Look for about a 300-350 round match with 80% being birdshot, 10% slug and 10% buckshot. This is just an estimate. It will be IPSC rules, and they will be STRICTLY ENFORCED. I am sure slots will be handled through the respective regions. I will be getting "educated" on this I am sure in the coming months. I will be talking with USPSA HQ to get the scoop on what they are handling, and what our team has to handle. I know a lot of this is vague, but it is all I have at this point. We will be navigating all the issues with getting international competitors, their guns and ammo into the US. That will take a bit of time I am sure, but rest assured, things are moving along nicely. So, fire up those stage design templates and get some stuff off to me ASAP!!! Thanks All, Jeff LaFave Pan American Shotgun Championship MD Edited August 26, 2008 by Barrettone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Smith Posted August 26, 2008 Share Posted August 26, 2008 Jeff Thanks for the update, it sounds like a match not to be missed, im really looking forward to it. N Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Sierpina Posted August 26, 2008 Share Posted August 26, 2008 Jeff, Everything I've read to date, stresses the difference between IPSC shotgun, and what USPSA normally shoots. The primary difference is the precision or technical aspect of the two. Is there a place for reference to see what would be a good stage design for this match? Stages of past IPSC shotgun matches would be an excellent place to start. Not only for submitting designs, but, for what to expect. Thanks Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benny hill Posted August 26, 2008 Share Posted August 26, 2008 So what we are doing is shooting shotguns on rifle stages. Get'er done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrettone Posted August 26, 2008 Author Share Posted August 26, 2008 Jeff, Everything I've read to date, stresses the difference between IPSC shotgun, and what USPSA normally shoots. The primary difference is the precision or technical aspect of the two. Is there a place for reference to see what would be a good stage design for this match? Stages of past IPSC shotgun matches would be an excellent place to start. Not only for submitting designs, but, for what to expect. Thanks Dan See post #35 above in this thread for the stages from the last 2 European Shotgun Championships. This should answer your questions. Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Sierpina Posted August 26, 2008 Share Posted August 26, 2008 That's what I was looking for. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benny hill Posted August 26, 2008 Share Posted August 26, 2008 I'll be so old by then, I'll be in a walker. [64] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kellyn Posted August 26, 2008 Share Posted August 26, 2008 A "fat free" walker! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benny hill Posted August 26, 2008 Share Posted August 26, 2008 Maybe they will let me use the rail for a rest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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