Flying with Guns

[sidnal]

I've flown with handguns many times. Most of the time everything goes fine, but there have been a couple of bad experiences.

1. Flew out of Houston 3 yrs ago at Thanksgiving. Had a separate gun case w/ 2 carry guns. That piece of "luggage" never made it to Phoenix. LONG story short... W/in 6 weeks there were 2 more experiences similar to mine. It quickly went from local police/lost luggage to FBI time. Long story, but they ended up catching the bad guy. The flawed methodology at IAH included going to the counter, inspected by "security guard", inspected by TSA while I watched, handed to private security guard and hand carried to downstairs TSA. It turns out that the rent-a-copy/dirtbag was stealing the guns. They found the empty cases in the ceiling. I didn't get my guns back, but Continental treated me righteously...they gave me cash equivalent. Thank goodness that I wasn't traveling with a 3-4k competition gun. The best part is that the Dirt bag is in jail...long story, but they got him solid.

Lesson learned...ship guns in your suitcase, no separate gun cases when possible. TSA remembers the incident...they changed the proceedure...the bag goes from upstairs TSA to downstairs TSA via conveyor belt...

2. Flew from Houston to Phoenix for Area 2. The trip from Houston to PHz was uneventful. Somehow...had to check that my gun was in my luggage before leaving the airport...previous bad experience! On the return trip the TSA procedure was much different. You send your gun case up the ramp and are notified when they've successfully inspected your gun. When I got home I noted that the Dumb asses shut my aluminum case on the front sight of my limited gun. It buggered up the sight a little, but fortunately the steel sight won over the aluminum case, but I sustained damage. I complained, but didn't hear back from them.

Next time I take a high quality gun through TSA I'll insist that I watch the handling of my weapon. Is this reasonable? Has anyone else had similar experiences?

L

[shred]

I've flown with handguns many times. Most of the time everything goes fine, but there have been a couple of bad experiences.

same here. Long ago a box of Glocks went to Tokyo while I went to Dallas, but other than that has been fine, even international, knock on wood.

Next time I take a high quality gun through TSA I'll insist that I watch the handling of my weapon. Is this reasonable? Has anyone else had similar experiences?

You can ask, but procedures vary so much, they probably won't always allow it. Many airports they do the inspection up front anyway, but some it's moved 'behind the scenes'. In Seattle for example once they wanted to search my bag 'behind the scenes', called me back there and made me go stand in a little taped off box just out of arms reach while they did it.

What I do is use a locking case (Secure Firearms Products, currently; they rock), that they can't get into without my key. I go where the key goes if at all possible. If not, the re-locking procedure is complicated enough they'll probably have to call me back there to demonstrate it anyway. I plan to do nice foam cutouts of the guns so they know where they go as well.

[sidnal]

I've flown with handguns many times. Most of the time everything goes fine, but there have been a couple of bad experiences.

same here. Long ago a box of Glocks went to Tokyo while I went to Dallas, but other than that has been fine, even international, knock on wood.

Next time I take a high quality gun through TSA I'll insist that I watch the handling of my weapon. Is this reasonable? Has anyone else had similar experiences?

You can ask, but procedures vary so much, they probably won't always allow it. Many airports they do the inspection up front anyway, but some it's moved 'behind the scenes'. In Seattle for example once they wanted to search my bag 'behind the scenes', called me back there and made me go stand in a little taped off box just out of arms reach while they did it.

What I do is use a locking case (Secure Firearms Products, currently; they rock), that they can't get into without my key. I go where the key goes if at all possible. If not, the re-locking procedure is complicated enough they'll probably have to call me back there to demonstrate it anyway. I plan to do nice foam cutouts of the guns so they know where they go as well.

I've tried the witholding the key, with mixed results. One time TSA brought out the box for me to lock another time they took my keys. How's this for an idea...get a case with a bio-lock that requires my thumbprint to lock and unlock!

Your idea of using a case with foam cutouts is a good idea. I have a smallish case that holds 2 guns...if placed in the case correctly. A larger case with cutouts would work better.

[Matt P.]

I have had good experiences.

I use a pelican case with 2 locks that I have the key only. I always insist that I place the declaration form inside myself then lock it. I have the perforated foam inserts so my guns don't move at all.

I recently bought some TSA locks (where they have the combination also) but I am not sure if I am going to use them. I need to think about that more.

[Jeff686]

I thought all locks had to be TSA approved (so they can open them). Does this not appy to firearm cases?

Anyone ever cable lock their guncase inside a suitcase? You could even run the cable through the trigger guard. They could inspect it by opening the TSA approved lock, but you'd have a key to the cable lock, peventing theft.

My dad used to be an airline pilot, years ago. He said sometimes a baggage handler would get fired for having a ring of luggage keys. In those days, luggage locks were keyed with only a few different styles/types of mechanisms.

Although I understand the TSA wants to be able to open and search our luggage, I doubt very seriously that the 'universal' TSA keys are highly guarded.

[Matt P.]

I think the approved TSA locks are combination only and not key's. Don't quote me on that. I use regular keyed Master locks on my gun case. TSA makes me open it, inspect it, (sometimes I have to show them the chamber,...but not too often), once my declaration is put in the case, it is officially TSA inspected. Nobody has hassled me for my locks or even requested my keys.

Is anybody using different locks other than approved TSA locks like I am?

ok, I just got this from the NWA site. I guess they mean that if it is not a TSA lock, then they can cut yours off?

Northwest accepts firearms, handguns, and ammunition under the following conditions:

All firearms must be locked in a suitable crush-proof / hard-sided container manufactured specifically for firearms or hard-sided suitcase. Hard-shell gun cases can be purchased at domestic airports.

Ammunition must be in the manufacturer's original packaging or a container specifically designed for ammunition. Ammunition with explosive or incendiary projectiles will not be accepted.

Due to TSA regulations, gun cases must be properly locked. Often gun cases require further TSA inspection.

To avoid the breaking of passenger's gun case locks, NWA recommends the use of TSA approved locks. TSA approved locks (Searchalert) come with a tool that enables TSA screeners to open the lock without damaging it. Searchalert locks are available for sale at NWA stations in Calgary

Edited September 12, 2007 by Matt P.

[sidnal]

I think the approved TSA locks are combination only and not key's. Don't quote me on that. I use regular keyed Master locks on my gun case. TSA makes me open it, inspect it, (sometimes I have to show them the chamber,...but not too often), once my declaration is put in the case, it is officially TSA inspected. Nobody has hassled me for my locks or even requested my keys.

Is anybody using different locks other than approved TSA locks like I am?

My current gun case has locks built into the latches...it's cheap...not TSA locks. They need my key to lock the case.

I know that some some keyed TSA locks are approved...I have a couple of different locks from different manufactures. Guess TSA must have a master key.

[Matt P.]

This should answer all of the Approved lock questions we have.

From the TSA

[uscbigdawg]

You don't need "TSA Approved" locks. I flew with my Pelican loaded up with an AR, Benelli and G22 locked with two Master locks. They got the key, did their check, locked it back up and gave me the key back. I think the secondary inspection is crap to begin with as it assumes that we're guilty.

Bottom line is that I've flown a ton with my guns and have had zero issues. If it's just a handgun, then it goes in the shooting bag, which is in another bag. Ammo is in with the clothing. If flying for 3-Gun, I have a couple of different Pelican and a golf club hard case (foamed out for my 3-Gun gear). The biggest thing is the airline of choice. Southwest is by far the best.

Rich

[Rob Boudrie]

I use real master locks on a Pelican case for handguns (I got the yellow one so it stands out in a crowd and is less likely to be grabbed by accident). If some baggage handler is going to grab my gun, I want to put him to the trouble to taking the entire case. Although not highly pick resistant a 4 pin master padlock (NOT the warded mechanism type) it provides reasonable security against anyone not carrying power tools or a pick set.

I also take a plastic coated stranded steel table and lock my gun to something inside the trunk when traveling in a rental car in a jurisdiction where I can't just take my gun with me when I stop somewhere to eat or run errands while on the road. Sometimes, there are no internal anchor points so I have to settle for the spare tire.

As to "searchalert" locks - as any high school or college hacker knows, if you have physical posession of a lock on a master key system and are willing to destroy it, you can reverse engineer a key - and a combination + master key system is actually easier since you don't have to figure out which pin cuts are for the master. TSA locks may use an opening mechanism not based on traditional pin tumbler design but, in any case, the ability of anyone to obtain samples for destructive analysis renders the "security" issue a moot point if you are concerned about highly motivated and prepared miscreants.

No lost guns (yet). I learned the important about standing out in a crowd when an elderly Chinese man travelling with a large group added my previous gun transport case (a hard sided very generic looking briefcase) to his family's luggage in the Toronto airport. I don't think he was trying to steal my luggage, but I'm glad I didn't find out what the procedure is when your lost luggage is returned by another passenger who "found a gun" in Canada, eh.

[markcic]

This should answer all of the Approved lock questions we have.

From the TSA

The link you are looking for is here. The gun case must be locked with a non TSA lock that and only you can have the key or combo. If the gun case is in another bag that bag needs a needs a TSA lock or they will break it off if they need to get into the bag. If it is a separate standalone gun case (ie Pelican) then you have use a non TSA lock.

My experience travel both ways is that they search the bags sometimes. In some airports the have the TSA screening out front and I'll stand around till after my bag gets put on the conveyor to the back. In other they ticket counter people will put it on the conveyor and I'll stand around for a bit in case the TSA needs to search it. I always put a copy of my biz card with my cell number on it in case they need to call.

[Carlos]

Anyone ever cable lock their guncase inside a suitcase? You could even run the cable through the trigger guard. They could inspect it by opening the TSA approved lock, but you'd have a key to the cable lock, peventing theft.

THAT is the answer.

Next time I fly, it will likely be with my Glock dis-assembled and the frame U-Locked to the frame of the suitcase sight through the original Glock box (the one with the hole in it). They can look at it all they like, but that frame is NOT coming out ot the suitcase without cutting the U lock or the triggergaurd. Barrel & slide will be off the gun so there's no question as to if its loaded or not. Give them the key to the U lock? No way. There is NO reason TSA would need the key to the U lock under any circumstances. I'd like to see them even try to cut a U-lock.

If they lose your suitcase entirely upon arrival, quietly take the baggage person aside and inform them that you properly checked a firearm in your luggage. That firearm, with ammunition, is now unaccounted for in a secure area of their airport, according to what they just told you. Tell them that you will momentarily be calling the FBI to report these facts, based on what they just told you. Tell them they might want to call TSA in order to immediately shut down the airport and halt all flights until your luggage is found, since they just informed you that there is a firearm unaccounted for in a secure area. And could you please have their full name?

Edited September 12, 2007 by Carlos

[chuckbradley]

Last time I flew I put the gun in a briefcase. Caught a little flak over the security of that brief case but they did put a marker on the case that it had already been inspected so it wouldnt be opened again without them calling for me first.

[shred]

Anyone ever cable lock their guncase inside a suitcase? You could even run the cable through the trigger guard. They could inspect it by opening the TSA approved lock, but you'd have a key to the cable lock, peventing theft.

THAT is the answer.

Next time I fly, it will likely be with my Glock dis-assembled and the frame U-Locked to the frame of the suitcase sight through the original Glock box (the one with the hole in it). They can look at it all they like, but that frame is NOT coming out ot the suitcase without cutting the U lock or the triggergaurd. Barrel & slide will be off the gun so there's no question as to if its loaded or not. Give them the key to the U lock? No way. There is NO reason TSA would need the key to the U lock under any circumstances. I'd like to see them even try to cut a U-lock.

If they lose your suitcase entirely upon arrival, quietly take the baggage person aside and inform them that you properly checked a firearm in your luggage. That firearm, with ammunition, is now unaccounted for in a secure area of their airport, according to what they just told you. Tell them that you will momentarily be calling the FBI to report these facts, based on what they just told you. Tell them they might want to call TSA in order to immediately shut down the airport and halt all flights until your luggage is found, since they just informed you that there is a firearm unaccounted for in a secure area. And could you please have their full name?

I've been locking my guns and case to the outer suitcase frame for years.. there's probably a post or two of my setup around here somewhere in one of the hundred 'flying with guns?' threads.

Just recently, SFP (a dealer here) added an external cable lock loop to their case. They upgraded the case I won at Nationals a couple years back and it's a very nice system, seen here with the orange lock cable detached from the case: I would take a long look at their cases for anybody without one-- they're more expensive, but they've got the best set of 'flying with guns' features I've yet seen.