Bianchi Gun

[pcschwenke]

I'm planning to build or purchase a gun for bianchi cup. Been thinking of a longslide 38 super or 9mm. I'd use the gun also for PPC. Do you think a compensated would be better? What caliber would be best?

[SRT Driver]

PC,

I assume, since you are using it for PPC, you would shoot stock class.

The stock class rules are very restrictive...has to be a production pistol, available to the general public, of which at least 1000 were produced in a year with no changes to the factory caliber.

Which means no "custom" guns. Guns built on Caspian frames are not legal (not factory produced), Rock River guns are not legal (not enough produced). I bought a Kimber in .38 Super and I have to have a letter from Kimber saying it is a factory produced pistol of which 1000 have been made because it has "Custom" in the name - Custom Target.

You can make "accuracy enhancing" mods to the pistol (barrels, sights with "stock configuration" etc., grips)

The way to go might be to get an SVI PPC Special, or whatever they call it. You can get it with the Aristocrat TriSet sight in a long slide etc IF 1000 have been made since SVI is a "factory produced" pistol.

Hope this helps If not, just shoot open with whatever you want!!!!

[2alpha]

A compensator isn't legal for PPC so if you want to shoot both it's a no go. You might want to check the rules on NRA action, it's quite a bit harder game in stock division, mainly no prone and no touching the barricade.

[SRT Driver]

PC,

2Aplha is right, it is more difficult. Comps and optics are not legal in stock class Action Pistol or PPC, I forgot to mention. Many stock class shooters at the Cup shoot S_I limited guns in Super or 9. Also, revolvers in .38SPL. Single stacks are built on Springfield or Colt 38 Supers or 9x19. Any of these are far from "stock" internally.

I'd shoot 38 Super. I've shot both 9 Super Comp and 38 Super with good results. Some shooters use 9x19, but I have not seen the need to change...Super works well for me.

Keep in mind, you want to keep the velocity up around 1000 fps so your mover lead is not off the target at 25 yrds.

[pcschwenke]

I should have been more specific. I'd plan to shoo the gun in open class in PPC and Bianchi. I realize that compensators are a no-no for PPC, that's why I thought that a long slide gun in 9 or super would work well. What about Bianchi cup? Do you think a long slide would work OK or not? I'm not sure how a 9mm or 38 super running 1000fps would recoil in a long slide verse a comp gun. This is my first attempt at anything other than 45 acp guns. Thanks for your responses!

[benos]

At the Cup in Open class, definitely go for the comp over the longslide. MUCH more effective setup.

be

[SRT Driver]

PC,

I don't like the way a long slide feels.. too much reciprocating mass, especially on the barricade event. My Open Cup gun is a 5 inch slide with lightening cuts..and a 3 port comp. It doesn't really move with the shroud etc up front.

I can't really see an auto doing well in both PPC and Open class Action Pistol.. too many changes necessary to run well in both. Like BE says, Open class Action Pistol is too specialized.

One way to go both ways..and the way I started out.. is to find a good slab sided barrel PPC revolver that is drilled for the Aristocrat Rib. Call Aristocrat, get their full length weaver base rib, get a red dot you like and mount a 1/2" by 1/2" piece of something for barricade wings and go shoot both.

You really don't need a mover base but if you can find one of the first generation Holosights..Martin Johnson makes a custom reticle that works well, with mover lead and a diamond that brackets the target on the 50 yrd Practical.

[pcschwenke]

Thanks for all the good information. Anyone have Martin Johnsons' phone number? I've been looking for a tombstone or other recticle for a month. The reason I thought I could get by with one gun is that for ppc I'd use Aristocrat 3 position site. I'd take this off and install my 1'st gen holosight for the cup. Cheaper this way but, like BE said the comp is the way to go. The Cup will be a good experience since the last big match I went to was Second Chance. Use to see BE there every year. Too bad it is no more. I only live 20 miles from that range.

[SRT Driver]

PC,

Martin's email is:

allgoodhits@yahoo.com

Good luck at the Cup!!!

[pcschwenke]

Thanks for the email address. I won't be at the cup this year. The frame I intend to use won't be available until the end of May. Next year!! Thanks.

[gm iprod]

If you go stock gun, many of the USPSA Ltd guns are not legal. As they have had weight removed from the exterior of their slides. This is not allowed. You can however take as much weight out of the slide from the inside.

The picture that Flex posted in the gallery of my STI 38Super uses a standard off the shelf STI slide. If you have flattened the top off it MAY not be legal.

If you go open, I believe a mover base or a scope with a pre set adjustable windage system with a small dot (Aimpoint or similar) is best. Just ask the guys who came in the top 10 last year. I use a mover base and an Aipoint Comp ML2 3MOA dot, this keeps the scope as simple as possible. Less crap going on in front of you, same sight picture everytime.

Stay away from a long slider as be suggests. Easier to keep reliable. Keeps th emoving mass on top of the pistol to a minimum. Comps reduce recoil and weight over longslider. NRA Open guns can get heavy. Some people use alloy comps, I dislike them. BECAUSE I DO!!!!!

Keep the shround down to the skinniest you can without being useless. This will help with the barricade if you have small hands and it will reduce weight.

Good Luck and hopefully I may see you at the Cup.

[SRT Driver]

GM,

Tony Holmes placed 10th at the Cup last year and he uses the new style Holosight with a 1 min dot without a mover base. Area aiming all the way!!!!! I think he dropped 2 on the mover with 32 and shot an 18 with 155. I don't have my results bulletin in front of my but it was close.

Granted, the Johnson reticle does take some getting used to and can seem "busy" at first, it does work well once you shoot it a while. Less complicated too. It took me through Master.

I think a mover base or the Gilmore mover dot could get at little confusing for the beginner. You have to learn the basics of picking a spot and going with it. As long as you have a spot on the target to put the dot, you're fine.

BTW, which mover base are you using? I spoke with Grant Jeavons a couple years ago about a mover base that was made in New Zealand but I couldn't get one. I think the only produced mover base now is the "Stick Shift" at least, in the US.

[pcschwenke]

It is amazing that some one is doing that well without a mover sight or scope with lead figured in. In all fairness, I believe it should go back to the basics for sighting purposes and forget the fancy scopes and mover bases.

I ended up ordering a MJ reticule for the holosight over the mover base. Although the sight might be busy, I'll get use to it. I've shot in competition now for 27 and 13 years of it with handgun.

Now the decision on frame and caliber!

[SRT Driver]

PC,

The stock guys don't have a mover base and TGO dropped a couple of points last year. I saw him shoot a 40 x mover, or so, on the practice range. I think he had 30 some X for score.

It's not that difficult really. My lead points, were edge of the 10 ring @ 10 yrds, edge of the 8 ring @ 15, inside edge of the target @ 20 and outside edge at 25. And that was with a revolver shooting 148gr wadcutters at 875 fps. It's just area aiming and more FPS is better. But as long as you have a reference point on the target, you're OK.

Granted, aiming in the middle is more precise but you have 4 inches of x ring and 8 inches of 10 ring to work with.

But you still have to learn how to shoot the mover and the mental hurdles associated with it. Whatever you feel more comfortable with. I have seen Masters and High Masters forget to change their lead and dump them into the edge.

[xcount]

SRT, as I was reading your lead points I was thinking Hornaday 148 HBWC, 860 fps. Then I read the next line. How long ago was this?

Mover bases were new when I was shooting this game. I was too cheap to buy one. And I, too, have seen people forget which way to adjust. Kinda funny, except for the shooter.

I used to hold on the edge of the target at 20 & 25. Found that easier than trying to judge an inch on or an inch off. Like you say, a lot of 10 ring to work with.

[SRT Driver]

Xcount,

This was up until three years ago. The "magic load" for that revolver was 148gr Berry Plated wadcutters with Reddot in .38 SPL. Reddot filled up more of the case and gave a more consistent velocity. Plus, I had 20 lbs of it.

125gr Berry FPs with N320 at 980 fps were tried before but those were a little rough on an old K-frame.

And it had a 10 minute dot on it which gave it a little more room since I could put it on the outside edge of the target and print around the center. But I learned to shoot the mover that way. It made me pick a spot and track smoothly.

Like my friend said, I held out and went down kicking and screaming but, I sold out three years ago and switched to an auto in Super. It has a mover base and a 4min dot.

[gm iprod]

SRT.

Grant Jeavons was talking about the base that I have on my gun, although he doesn't know it. My gunsmith makes them and they use a small stick at the rear to induce the offset. email me with your email address and I will send you a picture of my base and tell me if that's what you mean. I am too stupid to post it here.

I think they can still be made, but the gunsmith is not keen on making them as they take a little too much time, he likes his fishing. But he will do most things for gold.