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Bolt Rifle Questions


uscbigdawg

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Hows it shoot big dawg?

MY GA "Rock Rifle" will shoot like a dream except for the nut behind the grip.

Shoot some golf balls at 300...now thats fun and not so easy.

If you bring a kid or other first time shooter with you they can lose interest fast so try this.....

Fun for kiddies...bring some shaving cream cans(you can usually get them cheap at WalMart) and let the kids shoot them.

Put them out at various ranges.

Kids learn to dial in or hold off.

They blow up in a BIG spray of shaving cream.

They make the range smell nice and the cream washes away with the next rain that comes along.

Bring work gloves to pick up the jagged metal cans and a box/bucket to throw the shot ones in when you're done.

JK

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Yep. I'm going to break it in with factory ammo on Sunday. Nothing spectacular. All my compnents will be here by like Wednesday and have a good week of brass prep before any REAL ammo goes down range. I might have to find some Federal or Black Hills after break-in just to see what it can do.

Rich

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  • 2 weeks later...

Sooo....prepped a bunch of brass today and man...ALMOST made it through without a scratch.

For the record, I've never done this "accuracy" reloading junk before so brass prep and the hazards are pretty new.

1 - Got the brass resized in my high speed FL resizer. No issues with lubing as I just used One Shot.

2 - Trimmed them all to length with the cool Lee Zip Trim, under the recommendation of a friend. Believe it or not...that thing works!

3 - Then inside chamfered, VLD chamfered and then outside chamfered. No hiccups at all.

That's when things went downhill. Started uniforming my primer pockets and the SECOND case in I put my index finger on the mouth of the case, pressed down on the tool and then spun the drill.....

For those that don't know, the case mouth is rather sharp after doing steps 2 & 3 at this point and it sliced in to my finger like a hot knife through butter. Stefanie comes running in to the room at the distinct sound of me in pain and does what any good dental person (i.e. instead of a medic) would do...see blood and ask what to do? I then get up from the work area, rinse my hand and then find that as a medic, there are no freakin' Band-Aids in the house (if that's not Murphy's Law I don't know what is). So...it's a pretty good bleeder anyways and a simple dressing wouldn't have done much. Tied a local tourniquet, dressed it and then continued on with my brass prep. There's a nice, perfect 30 caliber skin flap on my finger.

After about 10 minutes, I loosened the tourniquet, changed my dressing and then deburred the primer pockets.

Voila! 50 fresh cases ready for load testing. Oh...and for what it's worth, Precision Mic's (i.e. for measuring OAL off the lands...suck!).

Rich

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Hey Rich, Call Sinclair and get a stoney point guage to set your OAL.. Best little tool out there. You get a case which is threaded in the primer pocket with a rod that extends down from that. Drop a bullet in the case and insert the case into the chamber. Gently slide the rod forward into the case, and it pushes the bullet forward into the throat. When it stops, it is hard on the lands. Remove the tool and measure to the ogive using another Sinclair goodie that looks like a regular six sided nut, but on each flat, there is a hole drilled to a different caliber. Of course use the hole that matches your caliber. This way, you are measuring YOUR chamber and throat. In the future, you can load ANY bullet regardless of length or weight, and put the ogive on the lands, or any distance off the lands that you want. I will throw a disclaimer in there that some rifles are throated so long that this tool won't work. For example, I have a Ruger 77V, and the throat is so long that the bullet falls out of the case mouth before it hits the lands. What I learned with the tool for that rifle is just to seat them as long as possible. That gun will shoot about 1" at 200yds, with Fed 168gmm, and all I've done to it is float it, bed it, and do a 2.5lb trigger job, so I don't sweat the throat lead too much. These tools take all of the guess work out of the process and are very simple to use. I know we spend a ton of money on this stuff, and the more you get into it, the worse the spending gets. It always seems like you need one more gizmo, but trust me, once you use one of these you will love it and wonder why anyone uses anything else. Sorry about the bleeding. Next time hold the end of the case with your fore head, that skull will hold the case better than the soft meat on the end of your finger!! :goof: Oh by the way, Harry Potter band aids stop bleeding better than the regular ones.

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I made my own by just adjusting a case basically sizing a case to have almost no neck tension. Hand press a bullet in and then feed the round, gently, so the bullet doesn't get caught in the lands. Back the round out but be careful to not have the drag while drawing the bolt back and then do not allow the ejector to pitch the round out.

Worked like a charm.

Rich

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Hey that sounds good if you can get it to work good for you. When I did that I never had a warm feeling that the bullet didn't catch, or it may have been pulled when easing the bolt out, so I went with the stoney point. If you can get a clean seat, and you are sure everything is good, and you do it several times with consistant results, take it and see what you can do with it. I will still recommend the nut for ogive measuring because once you figure out that your rifle likes to shoot .005", or .010" or on the lands, you can use the nut to instantly know where it set the next bullet. For example, if you get everything worked up for 168s, and it is doing good, and you want to shoot some 175s, you can take a direct measurement off the 168 loaded round, and know where to set the 175s. May not be perfect, but it will be very very close to what your rifle likes. Since you are measuring off the ogive, it will be consistant from bullet to bullet. You can also go from one bullet maker to another, and still put the ogive in the same spot in your throat, regardless of bullet design. I hope all that makes sense. I know what I'm trying to say, but I don't know if I'm explaining it very well.

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Ok, but the point is, regardless of bullet, you can set up the 175s, and make fine adjustments at the range to get them right where your rifle likes them, and use the measurement to set the 155s, and they will be to the exact ogive length of the 175s, and you will be ready to shoot, assuming that your lands are close enough to get both bullets on them. Are you using wilson dies and an arbor press?

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No way. That crap is overpriced and you don't get that much better in results.

Redding Type S FL/Competition dies and a RCBS Rock Chucker (until I get the setup done for my 650). John Whidden, David Tubb and the US Palma team all use Dillons...so can't be all bad. :D

Rich

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Steve, take a piece of dummy brass and load a 168, then go load a 175, then a 190, and heck, a 155 also. Then measure them all and post what your Stoney Point says they are.

It might be interesting to some that the competition seating dies (and maybe the others also) index off the ogive, and once you set it up for one projectile, it will seat the others at the same depth off. ;)

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Sorry I've been out of touch. I work third shift, and my wife has the crud, so I've been working nights and doing the Mr Mom thing during the day. I'm about blurry eyed right now as I'm 24.5 hrs with no sleep. Thank God I got out of work tonight.

Bobby, I will try what you asked with a piece of brass, I just haven't had time. What I did do, for comparitive purposes, was to measure several different bullets in my rifle to check for consistancy. All measurements are with the Stoney point guage and the measurement includes the width of the Sinclair ogive nut.

The rifle is a Rem 700 in 25-06, and was built about 16 years ago by Charles Joines up in Sparta NC.

1. Nos 85 Bt

3.759

3.758

3.759

2. Nos 100Bt

3.758

3.759

3. Sierra 117 Spitzer

3.760

3.758

4. Fowler 95 Fb

3.758

3.757

5. Berger 115 VLD

3.742

3.744

I was glad that everything came out so consistant, but really all it did was show that my lands didn't move during the test!! It was interesting to note that the Berger did not match all of the other measurements, but that bullet is so much more aerodynamic that you could visibly see that it fit differently into the Sinclair nut.

I will say that I love my Dillon 650, but when I go to the range to do load developement, I put my little press and dies, along with my Harrells powder measure, and a little Lee hand primer in a box, and sit right there at the bench and work up loads. Right then and there. Want your load .01 shorter, do it. Want a couple more tenths of powder, do it, and you can do it so easily. No more loading a bunch of different stuff to try and going to the range and then wondering about something that you didn't load or bring with you. You can not just pick up that 650 and go. It seems that for someone to say "that crap is overpriced and doesn't give better results", hasn't explored all the ways to use it.

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Steve, I too have taken my rock chucker to the range and used c-clamps to attach it to the bench while using my chargemaster plugged into a converter in the floorboard of the truck. It's a good way to save time and gas. Fortunately now I haved learned enough about reloading I can do it all at home. Comparitors are nice to have in the tool box but experience has made it where I virtually never have to use one anymore. I have fired over 30,000 rounds of precision handloaded rifle ammunition in the last 5 years, a good portion of that chasing the unicorn. :cheers:

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Nothing personal, but I'll be the first person to say that the crap is overpriced, especially after loading some test ammo using my RCBS Rock Chucker, Redding Dies and RCBS Chargemaster.

The first bullet I seated, OAL was 3.092. I wanted 2.850. Dialed it and to what should have been 3.000. Dead on. Dialed it to what should be 2.850. Dead on. BTW, 2.850 is just about the limit on feeding out of the Remington box mag (not DM...but the Badger is coming).

Filled the Chargemaster with powder. Calibrated it. Dispensed 5-6 charges of powder, just to get the cells "warmed up", with my Lyman, Dillon electric and balance beam on standby to check. Started loading my test loads and they were perfect!

The "magical" Harrel's powder measure states a 0.1 grain +/- accuracy with a throw. I get that performance on an unmodified Dillon measure on my 650, blowing as fast as I can loading 223 for 3-Gun. My 69gr. SMK load, when the barrel didn't have 10k on it, was shooting .25 MOA. It's opened up to about 0.6. Point being, that just 'cause it costs more and is in the Sinclair catalog doesn't always means it's the best. The ONLY thing I've seen that was SUPER SWEET in the way of powder measures is a Prometheus and well...you are paying for that, and it's worth it to someone.

I learned a VERY long time ago, that in order to shorten your learning curve and soften the damage on your wallet, find those that have done it and go from there. Bobby's helped me out and everything I've done has been stamp approved by him, Mike Voigt, Matt Burkett and other shooters I trust (and their trophy walls prove it). Heck...Bobby talked me out of loading 308 on my 650, until I got more comfortable on loading this stuff (and after seeing how long it took to prep 50 pieces of brass this weekend...sheesh...).

On a side note, the rounds look gorgeous that I did last night and it's going to be a great time at the range this weekend. I was a little nervous at the charges I was throwing 'til I saw that even my largest charge wasn't even at the top of the shoulder.

So...as for RCBS Chargemaster's and Redding Dies...I'm sold. Also, I think Chargemaster's really like (at least mine does) throwing 45.3 grains of Varget. It was spittin' those out SUPER fast.

Rich

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Yea, people have to understand that a comparator is just a tool that gets a little use when you first go over to a new caliber or new rifle. It doesn't get a ton of use, but it is so sweet when you set your rifle down on the bags. Run the comparator in, do it three times for consistancy, and in two minutes, you know exactly where your lands are. Start there and shoot and then start backing them in .010 at a time till you find the sweet spot. Then take that setting to .005 + and -, to see if it comes down a little more. All I'm saying is that with my little tool, which is not very expensive, I know exactly where to start. If someone is loading to mag length then all this doesn't matter. Would be cool if they would try this and see if their gun shoots better with longer loaded bullets. Could be interesting if they ever wanted to shoot a couple groups to find out just how good their rifle will shoot. I'm still chasing that one hole group. I will shoot a lot of groups, and send 4 out of 5 into one hole, but there is always ONE sob that wants to make a "figure 8" out of my group. I guess I shouldn't complain. Consistant .5' groups aren't too bad out of a 16 year old rifle. Will shoot around an inch and a quarter at 300 if you are careful. I have wanted to take it to the 1000yd matches here in NC, but I know the .257 bullets don't have the BC that a lot of other calibers have and they start falling off pretty hard at the longer ranges. The other thing is that if I go long gunning, I am giving up another match to do it, and between the two I'd rather go three gunning. It's just more fun for me to run and gun through four or five stages, than hang out at a bench rest match all day.

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Go to e-bay and get a Lee hand loader.

Should cost next to nothing.

Get it set up for your OAL, bring a mallet, projectiles, powder, and primers and re-load fire formed casings right on the range.

Guys usually will come around and ask "Hey what r-u doing?" and then be amazed that they will shoot so well using a hand loader that did not cost a zillion bucks.

JK

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I have wanted to take it to the 1000yd matches here in NC, but I know the .257 bullets don't have the BC that a lot of other calibers have and they start falling off pretty hard at the longer ranges.

Have you tried Jef Fowler's 110 grain .25's? I think they're the most streamlined .25. Better than Berger's older 110. Meplat is about 1/2 the size of the Berger.

I just checked, looks like Jef isn't making the .25 caliber bullets any longer.

Edited by Dan Sierpina
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There is a 1k match which is a little down below Wilksboro on the western side of the state. I haven't been to it but they have a monthly match, and keep points for the season and all of that kind of stuff. People over here could call Bill Shehane (sp?) a local nightforce dealer to get details. Dan I never got to try the larger Fowlers. The 95gr shoots great in my gun. Wish I had some of the larger ones to try out. Sierra is now making a 100gr MK, which they didn't have when I did a load workup for this gun. I may have to give them a try.

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