Bolt Rifle Questions

[uscbigdawg]

Optics: Do y'all know someone on the boards here, especially in the Dealer's section that can get us good prices on Leupold Optics?

Detachable Magazine Systems: Does anyone know of a detachable magazine system for Remington 700 long actions?

There will be more questions coming, but these are some biggies for now. The future ones will include reloading products, etc. for long range and precision rifle shooting.

Thanks,

Rich

[Merlin Orr]

Badger Ordnance is what I have on my rifle. I really think it is the best of the breed.

[smokshwn]

+1

The Badger DBM is the only one worthwhile. It beats the HS precision system in every respect.

I don't know about a scope deal, but Leupold is certainly not the end all be all in long range scopes. They use to be a pretty good value however their prices now put you into some very competitive territory.

Nightforce, IOR, and used US Optics

Check out www.snipershide.net

Great for sale forum and tons of info.

[uscbigdawg]

Merlin,

Totally forgot that Badger now makes them for the long actions. I have one on my GA Precision Crusader and just brain farted there.

As for optics, on the same rifle (GA Crusader), I spent the farm on optics there with a S&B PMII w/ P4 Fine Illum. Reticle. Zak Smith was a HUGE help there and know that it'll be a bad ass rifle once George gets done building it. The rifle that I'm trying to find some glass for now is my Kodiak Precision 6mm Ackley. It's living in a McMillan A2 stock and just figured that since this is more of a "fun" rifle, that I can save a little money on glass here by going Leupold. Unfortunately, my taste has gone a little pricey since picking up the S&B and keep going to their 3.5-10x LR/T's with M3 knobs and illuminated mil dot reticles. Down side on these is the the MOA adjustments are huge and like on the S&B I would prefer everything be the same units of measure (if one thing is metric, i.e. mil-dots, then everything should be metric).

I'm going to look at the IOR scopes as their P8(?) reticle is pretty sweet, but for good or bad, I know I'm still in the over $1k range. Don't know why I thought I'd be happy with something in the $800 range. The spoils of getting older and tastes getting more refined I suppose.

Rich

[smokshwn]

Rich,

I have no experience with them, but the reviews of the Nikon Tacticals has been pretty good. They are usually right in the ballpark of your price range. Also some guys have been pretty happy with the Burris Tacticals.

Both are 30mm mil dots, turrets etc with pretty decent glass.

On the front of becoming an optics snob I know what you mean. I bought a USO a couple of years ago and suddenly alot of good scopes now seem not so good

[uscbigdawg]

Okay...so I perused the IOR catalog a bit and kinda dig the MP8 Illuminated reticle that they offer. The 2.5-10x or 4-14x really might be the ticket with both being under a grand. My only concern is having never shot anything of theirs with real magnification (played with Kelly Neal's 1.1x a little once) always question the basics of optics like lens clarity, adjustment quality, repeatability of corrections, etc. They seem like good solid scopes and the added plus is that I would just pick it up from one of our site sponsors Cactus Tactical. I'm always down to buy from those that support our sport.

Any info on the IOR-Valdada scopes is much appreciated.

Rich

[Jaxshooter]

I have an IOR Valdada 1.1 - 4 X 26 with the CQB illuminated reticle. I have used it a few times for practice. It seems to be a good scope for Tactical class 3 gun. I shot a little box drill with it to check if it returns to zero and it worked very well.

[SVI4ME]

Okay...so I perused the IOR catalog a bit and kinda dig the MP8 Illuminated reticle that they offer. The 2.5-10x or 4-14x really might be the ticket with both being under a grand. My only concern is having never shot anything of theirs with real magnification (played with Kelly Neal's 1.1x a little once) always question the basics of optics like lens clarity, adjustment quality, repeatability of corrections, etc. They seem like good solid scopes and the added plus is that I would just pick it up from one of our site sponsors Cactus Tactical. I'm always down to buy from those that support our sport.

Any info on the IOR-Valdada scopes is much appreciated.

Rich

Bigdog,

I almost got one but the ones I was looking at had no numbers on the turrents. That bugged me !!! I ended up with a used NIkon 4-16X50 for my new 700 in .308. I was pulling my hair out looking at scopes. Some good deals come up on Snipers Hide forum. Check it out......

[M118LR]

it'll be a bad ass rifle once George gets done building it.

Rich, that is a good start.

It also looks like you answered you own question with the Badger ORD Mag system. Badger makes a GREAT product.

Also as was posted check out the SnipersHide for sale forum on a good deal on either a Leupold, Nightforce or other optics. I have found some good deals and have bought scopes off the forum.

[Cactustactical]

Rich,

the MP8 reticle is Valdada's version on a Mil Dot reticle using flat lines instead of dots or oblongs. The reticle design has been around for at least 8 years that I can remember.

The turrets on both the 2.5 - 10 and 4 - 14 have measuring marks. They can be clearly seen in stock photos for those items on both ours and the Valdada web site. The comments about turrets might have been made in reference to one of the scopes in the hunting line. The hunting line has both those scope in it currently and does not include "tactical" features such as target turrets. The 2.5 - 10 design has been around for years, it was the flagship of the line until the 36 mm tubes came out a few years ago. The 4-14 was also overbuilt as far as design as it is sold for usage on 50 cals, if desired.

If you would have any detailed questions about the product line, just give me a PM. I try to stop by the forum once a day.

regards

[uscbigdawg]

So here's what I've got so far for a short list. Any and all comments appreciated, since as stated above, I've grown to become a bit of a gear snob.

- IOR Valdada 4-14x w/ Illum. MP8 reticle

- Bushnell 6-24x50mm w/ SF and Mil-Dot reticle (no illum.)

- Nikon Tactical 4-16x50 w/ SF & Mil Dot

- Nikon Tactical 2.5-10x44mm Illum Mil-Dot

- Super Sniper 10x42 w/ SF

Some things I still need to find out on all of these and there still is some shakiness on others. For instance, features-wise I don't want smaller than 1/4 MOA adjustments and even that kinda bugs me a little. Issues like which focal plane the reticle is on and at which magnification the mils will allow for ranging. Just more puzzle pieces. 3-Gun is SOOO much easier than this, but have to admit the geek in me is happy. Also, I kind of have a hard time payin' $1k for a Nikon optic without knowing how good they are. Similarly, there is some terror in buying anything called a Super Sniper inspite of the reviews it has on it.

I'm leaning to the IOR or the Bushnell (although even the Bushnell yields some brand shock but everything written on it is good) but again, any and ALL input on these guys is appreciated.

Rich

Edited July 25, 2007 by uscbigdawg

[SVI4ME]

Rich,

the MP8 reticle is Valdada's version on a Mil Dot reticle using flat lines instead of dots or oblongs. The reticle design has been around for at least 8 years that I can remember.

The turrets on both the 2.5 - 10 and 4 - 14 have measuring marks. They can be clearly seen in stock photos for those items on both ours and the Valdada web site. The comments about turrets might have been made in reference to one of the scopes in the hunting line. The hunting line has both those scope in it currently and does not include "tactical" features such as target turrets. The 2.5 - 10 design has been around for years, it was the flagship of the line until the 36 mm tubes came out a few years ago. The 4-14 was also overbuilt as far as design as it is sold for usage on 50 cals, if desired.

If you would have any detailed questions about the product line, just give me a PM. I try to stop by the forum once a day.

regards

Hey Mr. Cactus. Take a look at this...http://www.swfa.com/pc-10180-292-ior-4-14x50-tactical-30mm-rifle-scope.aspx

If not for the pic I would have bought it but as you see no numbers on the turrents as I stated

Edited July 26, 2007 by SVI4ME

[Cactustactical]

Hey Mr. Cactus. Take a look at this...http://www.swfa.com/pc-10180-292-ior-4-14x50-tactical-30mm-rifle-scope.aspx

If not for the pic I would have bought it but as you see no numbers on the turrents as I stated

Hello, 2 observations.

First: the photo you are referencing on the SWFA site has the turret caps still screwed on. Valdada tactical scopes come with removeable turret caps that thread over the turrets for protection. They simply unscrew and the turrets are visible and useable. Take a look at the image on the valdada site or our site to see what the turrets look like without the cap.

Second: the image that you referenced on the SWFA site is for a scope style that was replaced almost 2 years ago since it has the blue band on the ocular. The scope was redesigned with some new cosmetic and internal features: the removal of the bue band being one and beefier internals for 50 cal usage.

I can not speak for SWFA, hopefully they simply failed to change their image, but there is 1 dealer on the east coast who buys close-outs and obsolete models and sells them pretty cheap and causes everyone else pricing issues. Knowing what SWFA's Valdada volume is, I believe that they simply failed to change their image, since most of the other images they feature show the newest versions of the scopes, although their image of the 1.1-4 is also out of date. The popular scopes are updated in some fashion almost yearly, so sometimes it is a struggle to keep totally current.

Hope that helps clear up the confusion.

[SVI4ME]

Hey Mr. Cactus. Take a look at this...http://www.swfa.com/pc-10180-292-ior-4-14x50-tactical-30mm-rifle-scope.aspx

If not for the pic I would have bought it but as you see no numbers on the turrents as I stated

Hello, 2 observations.

First: the photo you are referencing on the SWFA site has the turret caps still screwed on. Valdada tactical scopes come with removeable turret caps that thread over the turrets for protection. They simply unscrew and the turrets are visible and useable. Take a look at the image on the valdada site or our site to see what the turrets look like without the cap.

Second: the image that you referenced on the SWFA site is for a scope style that was replaced almost 2 years ago since it has the blue band on the ocular. The scope was redesigned with some new cosmetic and internal features: the removal of the bue band being one and beefier internals for 50 cal usage.

I can not speak for SWFA, hopefully they simply failed to change their image, but there is 1 dealer on the east coast who buys close-outs and obsolete models and sells them pretty cheap and causes everyone else pricing issues. Knowing what SWFA's Valdada volume is, I believe that they simply failed to change their image, since most of the other images they feature show the newest versions of the scopes, although their image of the 1.1-4 is also out of date. The popular scopes are updated in some fashion almost yearly, so sometimes it is a struggle to keep totally current.

Hope that helps clear up the confusion.

Well I guess your right. I checked your site and saw what I could have had if they had the proper pic or I knew about your site. Thanks for clearing that up, I thought it would be crazy to not have any reference points on the turrents

[milanuk]

Rich,

I recently had a bolt gun built up by Randy @ R&D Precision down in Cali... Stiller TAC30 action, Kelby-tuned Jewell trigger, 25" Rock 5R 11.25 tw barrel, AICS 1.5 stock, and a NF NXS 5.5-22x50mm w/ the new NP-R1 reticle. I also have a NF NXS 3.5-15x50 w/ the same reticle on my Salvage 10FP 'ugly stik'. Before that, I ran an SS10X42 for years (almost 9) off and on, and a SS16X42 for 3-4 years. A few Leupold Vari-X III's in there til I got smarter.

I don't know about the Nikon scopes; haven't seen one in action yet at F-Class or tactical matches yet. Around here the field seems about split between NightForce, Leupold MK4s, and US Optics. I've used those SS scopes along side the others, and yes, the big dollar scopes have better glass, and 'cooler' reticles. I don't think they have any edge (in my opinion) over the SS scopes in repeatability, which is priority numero uno for me. I'm kind of holding off on an IOR 3-18x scope... hoping that they'll put the big mongo *external* turrets (no caps) on the new models for 2007, maybe 2008. They show them on some of their new big (40mm main tube) long range scopes, so there is some hope.

HTH,

Monte

[uscbigdawg]

Monte,

On the IOR's, I hear what you're sayin'. I love the USO EREK knobs and if they were available there would be no discussion here. The 6 Ackley (that this is going on) is basically setup as a prairie dog/varmint rifle. If I were to use it in competition, it would do easily well in say USPSA MOR or any bench shooting. The twist rate on it is setup for medium weight (75-90gr.) bullets and so it's ideal for say under 500m. When I roach this barrel, I'll either re-barrel to another Ackley with a faster twist and maybe run the 115 DTAC's or just go to a 6.5-284 all together.

As for the SS scopes, it's one of those weird dilemmas that even though EVERYTHING that has been written about them as been positive, they almost seem too good to be true at the price. Again, this rifle is more of a fun gun (sorta) as I'm building a true F-Class rifle and that'll have on him probably a USO SN3 w/ all the bells and whistles. I dig the Canadian SN3 w/ GAP reticle....A LOT!

Rich

[smokshwn]

Rich,

It's not so much that the SS scopes are so great it is just that they provide excellence performance at their pricepoint with the upside being that when funds are available for an upgrade you can resell for 85%+ of the original price to another new/value oriented shooter.

[milanuk]

Might want to reconsider the USO for dedicated F-Class... (disclaimer here, I'm not exactly the biggest US Optics fan... mainly because the USO 'groupies' annoy me) they are top-notch scopes, built hell-for-stout and custom tailored to what you want... as long as what you want is *under* 22x and FFP. With the new 1/2 minute X-rings, you *really* want as much magnification as you can get, and little clicks (1/8 minute are pretty popular right now) are damn nice when it's about 1/4 minute from the edge of the 'X' to the nine ring. The NF 12-42x BR scopes are pretty much the de facto standard on the line nowadays, though there are a lot of 12-42x NXS models too, mostly people who had one before on an Any/Any Rifle. To get an equivalent USO scope... you're looking at the 10-42x models, which weigh about twice as much, have external adjustments (like the old Unertl scopes), and cost over twice as much (cheapest one starts at $3k, next one starts @ $3800). For the money, you can have a separate NF mounted in a set of quality rings as a back-up optic for less money than one U.S. Optics. Odds are, you won't need the back-up though...

Not saying U.S. Optics can't make a first-rate F-Class scope... I just don't think they make one *right now*.

[uscbigdawg]

Monte,

I hear ya. I am not ruling out just gettin' a Nightforce NXS for either this or the F-Class build. Basically, it's an excuse to have all three of the biggies (i.e. S&B, USO & NF).

Like I said, I'm not opposed to the SS, but it's just weird getting a decent scope for that price, that performs way above its price point.

Rich

[uscbigdawg]

So...back to being a gear snob. Thankfully, not being willing to totally compromise has kept the credit card in the wallet thus far. I did find a viable option, and have e-mailed the company to find out if they can do it. Leupold Mk4 LR/T 3.5-10x w/ Illum. TMR, FFP, M3 knobs & side focus. It's ALMOST a catlog item, but I do want an illum. reticle and their catalog scope doesn't. So...we'll see.

Other than that though, I think I've resolved that I'm going to have to spend a big bill ($1k) to get what I want.

Rich

Edited July 27, 2007 by uscbigdawg

[uscbigdawg]

New Question: USPSA MOR Matches

So I know the book answer on MOR matches is 1 MOA. However, never having seen one ('cause the last 3Gun Nat's I was at, the event was almost cancelled) I don't have good input on it. What can one expect from these events/matches?

- # of stages

- # of rounds required (per stage and total)

- Average target size and distance

- Fixed time or running time

Any and all info is appreciated.

Rich

[Charles Bond]

New Question: USPSA MOR Matches

So I know the book answer on MOR matches is 1 MOA. However, never having seen one ('cause the last 3Gun Nat's I was at, the event was almost cancelled) I don't have good input on it. What can one expect from these events/matches?

- # of stages

- # of rounds required (per stage and total)

- Average target size and distance

- Fixed time or running time

Any and all info is appreciated.

Rich

Best man to help you there is Michael Voigt the USPSA President. His email is president@uspsa.org.

Charles Bond

[Religious Shooter]

New Question: USPSA MOR Matches

So I know the book answer on MOR matches is 1 MOA. However, never having seen one ('cause the last 3Gun Nat's I was at, the event was almost cancelled) I don't have good input on it. What can one expect from these events/matches?

...

Any and all info is appreciated.

Rich

I think USPSA MOR is dead. There was less than 20 people in the '06 USPSA sidematch and there was only five people at the A1 3G side match. There were contributing factors as to the low turn out... but overall USPSA MOR is a pipedream. USPSA didn't even bother to schedule an MOR sidematch for this year's Multi-gun Nationals.

There are just not enough people who are interested in MOR for it to be successful. Now I'm not saying that there aren't any. I'm saying that there just isn't enough.

Take a look at Rocky Mountain... they got rid of their MOR side match. The A1 pistol didn't have their sidematch either.

If you want to get into bolt rifle that has a little bit of action you should look at the "Tactical", "Sniper" and "Precision" rifle matches.

If you ever get back to Nor Cal check out the monthly Ione match.

http://sacvalley.org/SacVal/Tactical_Long_Range.html

These guys also put out on a big (hopefully) yearly match:

http://www.6mmbr.com/norcaltactical.html

And you can take a look see at the Sniper's Hide Cup:

But just for shjts and giggles... from my experience in Albany, OR at the '06 Nationals and A1 MG:

- # of stages

3-4

- # of rounds required (per stage and total)

Maybe 15-17 rounds max per stage. But that's if you shot clean.

It's suprisingly hard for the average shooter to hit a 4" and fullsized 8-10" targets at up to 450 yards when there's a 5-8 mph wind at full value from a window/angled ramp/wet grass etc. While only 15-17 rounds are required it's not uncommon for shooter's to expend 50-70 rounds on one stage.

- Average target size and distance

I'd say if you took an overall average... lower A-zone as the average target.

Targets ranged from 4" steel to full-sized IPSC.

- Fixed time or running time

Running time.

[uscbigdawg]

Okay. Jump ball on optics....

I'm considering a "cheaper" scope for my 6mm Ackley rifle. Looking at Nightforce NXS 3.5-15x or something from IOR. Reticle-wise, I'm looking at the NP-R2 from Nightforce. From IOR, I kinda dig the MP-8? reticle.

Lastly, any REAL advantage to 35mm tubes over 30mm other than increased light? I know there's a theory on increased rigidity too, but part of me feels it's a race not worth chasin'.

Rich

ETA: The IOR's that I'm looking at are one a production line scope of thiers and one only available through Liberty (unfortunately 'cause I'd like to order from Cactus):

- 4-14x50 w/ Illuminated MP-8 reticle (30mm tube)

* Don't know much about it though (FFP or SFP? MOA clicks but a MIL reticle...that's a no go? Can I get mil adjustments?)

- 3-18x42 FFP Sniper's Hide Edition w/ Illum. modified MP-8 reticle (35mm tube)

* Pretty sweet design actually as it's setup with FFP, side focus and 70 MOA of vertical travel

Edited November 22, 2007 by uscbigdawg

[tx911]

I do ot have a IOR, but the guy I shoot with does , and it is a great scope. The gass is first rate, and the clicks are positive, and repeatable. I would not hesitate to go with a IOR. I am using a luppy, and prefer his IOR, the "clicks" are better, the only diff is he is using it on a .223, and I am on a .308.