IYAOYAS Posted July 5, 2007 Share Posted July 5, 2007 Ok here we go again. I'm at the Handgunner with the wife and kids. I'm talking to the gang, Fedex drops off some shipped ammo. Its for one of the big GM shooters. The problem starts when it turns out to hollow point ammo. This type is not allowed at the match . Its written in big black letters and underlined in the match booklet. The question is do you bitch about it or stay out of it? Its a problem because the wife was there and heard the whole thing . The kids want to set steel for tips. She wants me to throw a fit because she's not going to let the kids set steel if they let this guy or guys use this ammo. I really like shooting this match and really don't want to start a s---t storm. But why do these guys think they are above the rules? I've shot with these guys before they are nice guys . But I've been told they used this ammo before and nobody bitched so its ok. Why can't the big dogs follow the rules like rest of us. So now I've spent a bunch of money ,the wife is pissed, the kids are pissed, I really don't care what bullet they shoot..But I'm the guy feeling the heat for whole thing and I'm just so sick of it. The damn match hasn't even started yet. Why can't we all follow the rules???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jman Posted July 5, 2007 Share Posted July 5, 2007 Well, if it's against the rules I guess the shooters who use it aren't shooting for scores. Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry White Posted July 6, 2007 Share Posted July 6, 2007 That would be a safety issue and they shouldnt be shooting at all,score or no score. I shoot hollow points and dont think they are worse than anything else, But if its in the match book, bold and underlined it should be the same for all.------Larry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Boudrie Posted July 6, 2007 Share Posted July 6, 2007 Since this is a "local rule", am I correct in assuming you have petitioned the USPSA President for approval as required by USPSA rules? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry White Posted July 6, 2007 Share Posted July 6, 2007 Is the handgunner a USPSA match?--------------Larry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougCarden Posted July 6, 2007 Share Posted July 6, 2007 Real simple to avoid any controversy.....just ask Paul, since it is his match. The problem was really with the High speed light weight bullets, 88-95 gr jhps at 1400 fps that really fragged. Since you are there, and can ask Paul, just do that. Problem solved. See you there, DougC.....almost did the same thing last year and had to load at the last moment with fmj...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1911user Posted July 6, 2007 Share Posted July 6, 2007 (edited) STI-American Handgunner World Shoot-off Championship http://www.sanjuanrange.com/ahwsc.htm an excerpt: "For safety reasons, the minimum bullet weight will be 115 GR. Velocity will be 1,200 FPS maximum and NO HOLLOW POINTS due to splatter." I have no connection with the match, but my google-fu is strong tonight. Edited July 6, 2007 by 1911user Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry White Posted July 6, 2007 Share Posted July 6, 2007 I looked it up, other than useing USPSA classifaction I dont see anything that has to do with USPSA. I also dont think asking about this rule is pitchin a bitch. Your wife has a concern, and it involves her kids. Ask the MD, that way you know whats what.----------Larry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe4d Posted July 6, 2007 Share Posted July 6, 2007 You dont really have any room to complain, unless you protest the rule violation and notify the Match director, If the match director doesnt enforce the written rule then you do have a legitimate gripe. You can either shoot mad or make a statement and demand the return of your match entry fee as well as contact the organization and sponsors. He may just be turning the blind eye but you need to atleast give him a chance to enforce the rules. As a side note you can see my hollow point views in my thread "I hate Hollow points" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted July 6, 2007 Share Posted July 6, 2007 FWIW, I believe that rule was added due to some injuries that were suspected, but never proved to be hollowpoints, combined with a vocal anti-HP shooter... The FBI says JHPs splatter less dangerously than FMJs.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IYAOYAS Posted July 6, 2007 Author Share Posted July 6, 2007 (edited) Thanks for letting me vent. I've worked out a plan for the kids. Not my problem or my business. I'm here to shoot and have fun. Thanks again Edited July 6, 2007 by IYAOYAS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singlestack Wonder Posted July 7, 2007 Share Posted July 7, 2007 Per the rules, hollow points are specifically prohibited. If the infraction is reported to the match officials and the shooter is still allowed to compete with illegal ammunition, what value are the rules? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaxshooter Posted July 7, 2007 Share Posted July 7, 2007 There are rules for a reason. Ask the Match Director about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddy_fuentes Posted July 18, 2007 Share Posted July 18, 2007 Just got home from the Handgunner last night and it was a great match. I don't know what, if anything, was decided on the ammo issue, but I did get hit a few times with spladder. I think you can expect that when shooting steel at close ranges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbrowndog Posted July 19, 2007 Share Posted July 19, 2007 Having shot the match numerous times, and before the ban on HP's. I think the problem is that there is no consistency in opinion, some feel that FMJ's cause more fragging, others HP's. There are matches that do not allow FMJ's for the same reasons that the Handgunner won't allow HP's, an RO takes his trusty pocket knife (calibrated of course) and checks to see if your ammo is plated or FMJ. I'm sure the GM probably did not intend to use HP"s, it simply is hard to keep up with all the different rulings in our sport.................................I know they should have read the rules, but its still possible to read them and forget. Pure and simple, Jackets of all type are hard and they tend to stay together when impacting steel, and they can and will come back. Trapr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe4d Posted July 19, 2007 Share Posted July 19, 2007 It doesnt matter if the rule has valid reasons or if you agree with it or disagree or your a GM or a scrub, read the rules or forgot them, It was a posted rule of that particular match. Competitors should follow them or be disqualified. Match directors need to enforce posted rules. "giving " someone a break penalizes all the people who paid attention. A competitor who notices clear violations of the rules need to bring it to match officials attention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IYAOYAS Posted July 19, 2007 Author Share Posted July 19, 2007 It doesnt matter if the rule has valid reasons or if you agree with it or disagree or your a GM or a scrub, read the rules or forgot them, It was a posted rule of that particular match. Competitors should follow them or be disqualified. Match directors need to enforce posted rules. "giving " someone a break penalizes all the people who paid attention. A competitor who notices clear violations of the rules need to bring it to match officials attention. It was brought to Paul's attention. He chose to do nothing . I received the mind your own bussiness look, so i did so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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