George Posted July 8, 2007 Share Posted July 8, 2007 It isn't the specified drill, but here is some vdeo of Kurt at SMMG 3 years ago (courtesy of Patrick Kelley's www.multigun.com website). Watch and see how fast he loads, on the clock, in a match and take it from there. Note: Kurt is grabbing and stuffing four shells each time he goes to his belt. He loads eight in a row, twice in this video. Also, he is even faster when he actually keeps the gun mounted http://www.multigun.com/video/kurtstage10.wmv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Religious Shooter Posted July 8, 2007 Share Posted July 8, 2007 I've seen that video many times. AFAIK he only loads 6 on the second set. Since we are talking about from port arms... shoot... load 8... shoot... On the second set "Port arms" starts at ~30 seconds... second shot is ~37. ==> 7 seconds for shoot 1, load 6 and shoot 1 from "port arms". On the first set he starts from the car so I don't think it really applies. But he starts for the belt at 17 seconds and he breaks the shoot at 25. With a "port arms" start ... say it starts at 16 seconds so he executes it in 25-16=9 seconds. He started from a bad position so I'd discount the first string. But those runs are nowhere near a 5.5-6 second run for a port arms start... shoot... load 8... shoot drill. Heck I could do 7 seconds for six and 9 seconds for 8. 5-6 seconds with that drill would be a sight to see. It'd be inspirational. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted July 8, 2007 Share Posted July 8, 2007 Okay I will get that clip from Mike.45 and if someone knows how to post it I will happily provide it. Don't take one stage and think that is the norm, BTW after the first bank of 8 I load eight, the next bank of targets is 7 shots and I miss one, the last bank of targets is 8 again so how the heck do I get away with only loading 6?? count the load after the second port and you WILL come up with 4 the second grab is indeed 3 as at the end the gun is empty. I didn't load at the shoulder because the movement was right on the 180 and I had to really watch the muzzle so that is why the dismounted loading. I was second on this stage for "tactical" being beat by Kelly Neil for .5 of a second around the 23 second mark, the next closest time to Kelly and I was around the 28 second mark ( by another weak hand loader ) so I guess I loaded fast enough. I am glad that Religious shooter can load as fast as me or even faster ( "Heck I could do 7 seconds for six and 9 seconds for 8"). I will look forward to seeing how we compare at shotgun stages at matches we both attened P.S. If I was Religious Shooter I would want to see it also, as he only has one frame of reference and I take no offence in his reply! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Religious Shooter Posted July 8, 2007 Share Posted July 8, 2007 Don't take one stage and think that is the norm, BTW after the first bank of 8 I load eight, the next bank of targets is 7 shots and I miss one, the last bank of targets is 8 again so how the heck do I get away with only loading 6?? count the load after the second port and you WILL come up with 4 the second grab is indeed 3 as at the end the gun is empty. I guess our counting just differs. After the car and the initial reload of 8, I count 8 shots then 6 shells being reloaded and then 7 shots afterwards. The last two stations were 7 and 7. If you see Kelly's run he shoots 7 and 7. http://www.multigun.com/video/kellynstage10.wmv So if you had one in the pipe and loaded 6 ==> 6+1 shells were in the gun when you shot the last array. And from the looks of it you ran it empty. I am glad that Religious shooter can load as fast as me or even faster ( "Heck I could do 7 seconds for six and 9 seconds for 8"). I will look forward to seeing how we compare at shotgun stages at matches we both attened You have trounced me in all the shotgun stages that we have shot "together". And it will probably be like that (unless your shotgun chokes) for a long time. A lot of shooters beat me in a shotgun stages. So that would tend to mean that those people (and there's many) can do "7 seconds for six and 9 seconds for 8" or better. Those #'s aren't that great. It just so happens that that video above is one of the things that I based my judgement on when I say that the Carlock Shuffle (as practiced by Carlock) is the fastest technique I've seen for loading 8 and/or 9. I've seen Taran load in videos and in person. I've obviously seen KellyN load in the above video. I've seen Cooley load in videos and during a class. I've seen Mr. Modest load in videos and in person. I've seen Neth load in videos. And I've seen Carlock load in person. The fastest load of all was with the shuffle. It was an "O my fjckin God!" moment when I saw Carlock load ballz out. But as you say "don't take one stage and think that is the norm." If the above video isn't the norm and the norm happens to be 5-6 seconds for a port arms, shoot, reload 8 and shoot... then I would have second thoughts about my statement. But then again it could be the crack! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbrowndog Posted July 8, 2007 Share Posted July 8, 2007 Relig, my times were all done "tongue in cheek, with alot of texan added" and between good friends!!!! something you might or might not be taking into consideration, is if Carlocks load was done for video, after a few tries, or was it simply a every once in awhile spectacular load. Kurt, I know makes no qualms about saying that his BEST time is 5.13, also the video you see of him at SMMG is a NORMAL match performance, not done for video. Granted, his 5.13, is an every once in awhile spectacular load. I do not personally know, or have ever met Shawn, to the best of my knowledge...........And i'm not trying to slight his performance or technique. Simply saying that given the same amount of practice, I feel that weakhand loading is faster for the masses to master, point being, the number of top shooters using it to place VERY WELL, around the world. CAPS, not used for yelling!!!!!!! Trapr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted July 8, 2007 Share Posted July 8, 2007 I will still try to post the video when I get it from Mike, even though it is "just an annomally" and we all know the average should be in the mid 9s or so. Trapr how do you HALF your time just for a video? Answer... just load really slow the rest of the time Yes it is "just a video" but the fact that it can be done at all speaks for it'sself. Now if I could just pull the trigger faster, I would really have it going on! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Smith Posted July 8, 2007 Share Posted July 8, 2007 Even if it's proven to be faster I dont think I would go back to a Remington just so I could use the shuffle technique. the gun will be sure to let you down at sometime negating what little advantage it may have given you, weak hand loading & a Benelli is the way forward Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbrowndog Posted July 8, 2007 Share Posted July 8, 2007 Kurt,, you've already forgotten my tip about loading faster???????????????? Don't you remember? you just make that noise quicker, and go thru the motions ,...............or remember theres always..................EDITING!!!!!!!!!!where have we seen that done? Trapr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike.45 Posted July 9, 2007 Share Posted July 9, 2007 (edited) I did the drill yesterday in 4.78 I will find Kurt's video later today, I think it is in my 'Been there, Beat that....' film clip folder Edited July 9, 2007 by mike.45 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Religious Shooter Posted July 9, 2007 Share Posted July 9, 2007 I did the drill yesterday in 4.78I will find Kurt's video later today, I think it is in my 'Been there, Beat that....' film clip folder I did the drill today with 35 yard targets. Best run was 9.25 seconds. "On demand" was at 10+ seconds. So a peon like me can definitely do it in 9 seconds with practice. 4.78 seconds is just sick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted July 9, 2007 Share Posted July 9, 2007 Don't forget that Mike is in the U.K. and thier gallons are bigger, and seconds slower, and they can't count! I think he loaded and English "8" which is really 4 shells and 4 of pints Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benny hill Posted July 9, 2007 Share Posted July 9, 2007 And don't forget I'm 1/2 sec. faster than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbrowndog Posted July 9, 2007 Share Posted July 9, 2007 Kurt, if the pints came before the loading, mikey may have had someone load the shotgun for him??? You know how he needs help getting up hills after he drinks. cheers mate, Trapr See you and your other mates in a few months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kellyn Posted July 9, 2007 Share Posted July 9, 2007 Wow! What a thread. I've seen them all and I have no doubt that the weakhand load properly executed is the fastest. I'm trying to convert to the darkside, I'm just not quite there yet. If you watch those vids carefully, Kurt's loads are faster than mine. I just shot (much) faster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Religious Shooter Posted July 10, 2007 Share Posted July 10, 2007 British Five O' don't lie. Maybe it's because he used a pistol gripped Browning. Got the edge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted July 10, 2007 Share Posted July 10, 2007 NO Mike uses a Pistol gripped BENELLI now!! He has seen the light after only 3 years. Here is a link to a load 8 drill. Mike didn't have the fast one anymore so he sent me what he had. It is a 6.16 second run and on my computer the feed is chopy. I hope it works better for you guys. But it still is worth seeing. Now here is a thing to think about. The first shot takes me around .78-.86 seconds so lets call it .8 6.16 -.8 = 5.36 seconds to load 8 rounds and then shoot the last round , still not bad, but the real test is for you guys to spot where I fumbled...no MIke can't play...he was there! http://www.3gunrules.com/video/kurt_reload8.wmv Just remember Kelly..."the dark side,s calling" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5Shot Posted July 10, 2007 Share Posted July 10, 2007 Something to do with having 3 shells left in the first Shell Carrier? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Religious Shooter Posted July 10, 2007 Share Posted July 10, 2007 Interesting. Either Scottie beamed you another shell ...or you grabbed it out of the other carrier... or you had a shell already in your hand... or? Also interesting that your hand motion sort seems like it is a lot of thumb power that's pushing the shell in. It also sort of looks like (but not) the same motion as if you are opening and closing your hand using the index and thumb only. Interesting... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jobob Posted July 10, 2007 Share Posted July 10, 2007 Ok, you guys are working on me. I've worked a little with the left hand method 'cause I don't like to be locked into just one routine. I may have to work on it a little more. Maybe do some strength training to keep the gun mounted (I'm semi-old and sorta-feeble). It IS interesting how there are three shells left in the first mag carrier, but you seemed to load 4 shells. Do they make 7 shell carriers? Do you have an invisible friend? Did you go through a time warp? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Posted July 10, 2007 Share Posted July 10, 2007 I'm thinkin' that Kurt is pretty good at this game and when he felt 3 shells in his hand on the first grab, he ran the motions 4 times just to run the drill correctly for the camera. In a match I am sure he would have just loaded 3 and then grabbed more. This is about the same as when a motorcycle starts to slide and you just do what has to be done at that moment without thinkin' about it, cause if you have to think about it, you are already out in the haybales Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted July 10, 2007 Share Posted July 10, 2007 You Guys are GOOD!! I pooch up the first grab, you can see me actually go at it twice if youy watch my hand carefully, and still only get three. This was caused by triing too damn hard, and we all know about triing! The second 4 goes just like it should, you can also see it in my face when it happens, I knew it the second it happened. I think Mike sent that one on purpose! Believe it or not it would have been faster if I had got all 4 the first time....Oh and George is right! always go through the motions as it is all practice! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike.45 Posted July 10, 2007 Share Posted July 10, 2007 Whoops......wrong video clip ???......my bad !! Actually thats about the only clip I have that clearly shows the grab and piston the techniqe uses RS, you are right, Scotland Yard detectives dont lie.............. they may stretch the truth once in a while though when BS'ing about personal shooting times though ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted July 10, 2007 Share Posted July 10, 2007 Ugh, I have a lot of practice to do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5Shot Posted July 10, 2007 Share Posted July 10, 2007 Ugh, I have a lot of practice to do The practice is the fun part! Just pop the mag tube off the gun and grab a box of dummies. Makes the stuffing wayyy less tedious. Just keep stuffing 4 @ time until you run out of dummies, then pick em up off the floor and start again. It isn't very likely you will get faster than Kurt, but it will help 5Shot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCFooter Posted July 10, 2007 Share Posted July 10, 2007 Nice Demo !!! It's nice to finally see a pro do it and know that I'm not too far off on my practice. I have no doubt that this is THE optimum method IF you can do it. I have several questions but will refrain to only one which seems most important. When I practice this method I notice it is difficult (requires thought) to get my finger out of the trigger gaurd while loading. I noticed in the video that Kurt's finger appears to remain in the guard as well. Has anyone seen or heard of ND's being an issue with this method? Does most everyone do a god job of getting their finger out of the trigger guard or just staying on target? Thanks Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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