ExtremeShot Posted June 19, 2007 Share Posted June 19, 2007 I heard (I think on Michael Bane's podcast) about this integral mainspring/grip safety that Novak makes. There isn't any info on it yet and I had to search around to find these pictures on their website. Supposedly it removes the grip safety. As I recall, Bane was talking about how some competition shooters disconnect the grip safetly anyway, so a system like this makes sense especially since you still have the thumb saftey. Anyway, I was curious what everyone thought about it. Darren Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubberneck Posted June 19, 2007 Share Posted June 19, 2007 Right now the only way to get one is from Novak directly and if I am not mistaken it is only on their full house guns. That may change in the future but for right now it isn't really a consideration as less than 30 guns in the entire world have one. As to the safety issue even John Moses Browning thought they were a complete waste of time. His next major handgun design, the P-35 didn't have one. I tend to agree with that opinion and would love to run a 1911 with a one piece backstrap/beavertail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddy_fuentes Posted June 19, 2007 Share Posted June 19, 2007 At the 2006 SHOT show in Las Vegas, they had a sample installed on a 1911 and it was cool and I really liked it. They said it would be available in December. At the 2007 SHOT show in Orlando, they had it on display again and said that it would be available later this year. The hook is that they have to install it on your pistol and I don't remember the exact price I was quoted, but in the neighborhood of $300.00! Thanks anyway, I'll pin mine. Buddy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichiganShootist Posted June 19, 2007 Share Posted June 19, 2007 I'm sure using this product would be considered "disabling a safety" and would be illegal in most shooting sports. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoon Posted June 19, 2007 Share Posted June 19, 2007 A friend just had Novak put one on a "non-Novak" gun. It is a one piece unit and is solid/rigid. Thus there is no grip safety when it is installed. Opinions about grip safety's vary. I haven't had a problem when using beaver-tails, so that may color my attitude. But, unless a poorly fitted safety is actually pinching the flesh between the thumb and fore finger, it seems like an relatively expensive solution to not disengaging the grip safety with a normal grip. But if it will add to pride of ownership or confidence, it may be worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtypool40 Posted June 19, 2007 Share Posted June 19, 2007 I have always left mine intact, but do like the idea of really blending it up high. Seems like I saw this part from, maybe Resomp or CR back about five years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pskys2 Posted June 19, 2007 Share Posted June 19, 2007 If it worked on an STI, would it help with adding a bit of rigidity to the Grip? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddy_fuentes Posted June 19, 2007 Share Posted June 19, 2007 Unfortunately, not everyone is as fortunate as you guys that always make a perfect grip and activate the safety. I use a high grip with right thumb on the safety and the other thumb pointing down range. I miss activating the grip safety very often. Sometimes I grab so high that the web of my hand is too high on the beaver tail and has to slide down as I go to the target or shoot. A pinned grip safety does fine for me, but I would consider "The Answer" if it were not too expensive and I could install it myself. The cost of shipping the frame to Novak and cost of return shipping runs up an already pricey modification. Does anyone know who makes a polymer arched checkered mainspring housing? I would like to put one on my Edge. Buddy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scout454 Posted June 19, 2007 Share Posted June 19, 2007 I've never seen a pollmer arched housing for an S_I but I have both aluminum and steel. The aluminum was purchased from ZM several years ago and the steel housings from Dawson (ZM). STI also makes an aluminum arched housing. I prefer the ZM/Dawson because it's a bit bigget and locks my hand in better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaxshooter Posted June 19, 2007 Share Posted June 19, 2007 SV also has arched mainspring housings in blue and stainless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddy_fuentes Posted June 19, 2007 Share Posted June 19, 2007 Maybe an aluminum will do if I can't find a polymer. Have y'all used a wedge type? Thanks, Buddy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zhunter Posted June 19, 2007 Share Posted June 19, 2007 I agree, my grip is just to high to dis-engage the grip safety. If mine was not pinned, it would only go off about 15% of the time. I consider myself lucky to have a naturally high grip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elenius Posted June 19, 2007 Share Posted June 19, 2007 I'd love on of those. I have the same problem. I just asked my gunsmith if he could pin the grip safety on my Kimber, but he won't do it because it voids the warranty apparently Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-ManBart Posted June 20, 2007 Share Posted June 20, 2007 There was an article on it in one of the American Handgunner annuals or spinoff mags not too long ago. I e-mailed Novak about it in January and they said it would be available in mid to late Summer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFD Posted June 20, 2007 Share Posted June 20, 2007 If you like the Novak part, then go for it. Unless you just want to disable the grip safety. Spending a single minute with a file and your grip safety engagment point will solve any and every problem you ever had with not engaging it. As a young man in the early 80's, I was on a camping trip and had to scramble for my .38 Super Colt really quick. It did not go bang immediately because of the grip safety and my hurried grip. I've never had a functional grip safety on any 1911 since then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddy_fuentes Posted June 20, 2007 Share Posted June 20, 2007 elenius, it is easy to do and you don't have to actually pin the safety if you don't want to. The only problem with a Kimber is that you have to disengage it each time you want to take it apart. The "safety device" keeps you from taking the slide off if the grip safety is depressed and that is basically what you are doing. Get a small piece of rubber hose and cut a thin piece off of the end (about a 1/8" thick) and then cut it in half. That will leave you with a 1/2 moon looking piece. Remove the mainspring housing and put the 1/2 moon piece between the grip safety and the main spring housing. The hammer strut must be left free to move, therefore, the inside of the half moon should not touch it. When you push the mainspring housing back in place make sure the grip safety is depressed. It will work just fine and can be removed easily. Just remember to use the safety between your ears. Buddy Buddy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted June 20, 2007 Share Posted June 20, 2007 I think it is a fantastic idea. Of course, I felt that way when I originally(?) thought of it. Then, Novak came out with it. Then, Knuckles did one on his 1911 (Kimber carry gun..pics on the forum here)...on his own. Then, I come to find out that there was a company doing these years ago as well (I don't recall the name). A lot of 1911 fans don't get the problem, so they won't get "the answer". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Boudrie Posted June 20, 2007 Share Posted June 20, 2007 One of the 1911oid copies (I think it might have been the Argentenian Ballister-Molina (sp) did something like this years ago). It's a great idea, but there is enough art that I doubt others have to worry about a utility patent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scout454 Posted June 20, 2007 Share Posted June 20, 2007 Maybe an aluminum will do if I can't find a polymer. Have y'all used a wedge type?Thanks, Buddy Buddy, Ed Brown makes (made?) a wedge as did ZM. I had them on several guns and then realized I didn't really like them. 5 minutes on a belt sander and a touchup with a checkering file and I turned them into fat arches (i.e., they sit proud of a standard arch). Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Watson Posted June 20, 2007 Share Posted June 20, 2007 I think if you bought a new gun from Novak with The Answer in place, you wouldn't have disabled a safety device, would you? An expensive route, though, and if the experts at Sedro Wooley or Berryville or some individual match disagreed, you would be out a lot of money. The first one piece backstrap insert I know of was the one on the Arminex Trifire, which was the 1911 design munged up with a Walther slide safety and a trick extractor and ejector to handle different caliber barrels on the same frame and slide. The insert was available separately for use on real 1911s. It did not have a beavertail, though. Six or seven years ago, I talked to Mrs Resca of Rescomp about their backstraps at the S.H.O.T. Show. She said they had gotten the dimensions off and had a crate full of wrong parts. She said the press of business on their other products kept them from fixing them to sell. I asked her to sell me a couple as is and I would undertake to have them made to fit, but never heard back. Buddy, if you want an arched synthetic mainspring housing, Brownells catalogs a Colt part. Whether they actually have any to sell is a different question. http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/store/pro...614&s=10586 As to the "improved" P35 without grip safety but with magazine disconnector, I figure Mr Browning (and Msr. D. Saive) was designing what his customers (FN and the French) wanted, not some ivory tower vision of what was "better" than a gun already selling well. I also know which superfluous "safety device" I can live with better, and it isn't a magazine disconnector. I figure it would be interesting to tune up a Ballester Molina for shooting. There used to be a lot said about pivoting trigger conversions for 1911, and the Ballister comes with one. It is not just a 1911 with a solid backstrap, though. It is largely a Star design with many departures from Colt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmoney Posted June 20, 2007 Share Posted June 20, 2007 As to the safety issue even John Moses Browning thought they were a complete waste of time. His next major handgun design, the P-35 didn't have one. I tend to agree with that opinion and would love to run a 1911 with a one piece backstrap/beavertail. If I remember correctly, JMB's original design employed a grip safety but no thumb safety, and the thumb safety was only added to meet some governmental spec for military submission. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubberneck Posted June 20, 2007 Share Posted June 20, 2007 As to the safety issue even John Moses Browning thought they were a complete waste of time. His next major handgun design, the P-35 didn't have one. I tend to agree with that opinion and would love to run a 1911 with a one piece backstrap/beavertail. If I remember correctly, JMB's original design employed a grip safety but no thumb safety, and the thumb safety was only added to meet some governmental spec for military submission. JMB's first design submitted to the army was the model 1905 that lacked both the thumb and grip safety. It wasn't until the army demanded that they be added to the design that the 1911 was born. From everything I have read on the subject he thought the grip safety was useless. Since Patrick Sweeney is around maybe he will weigh in on the history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSMITH Posted June 20, 2007 Share Posted June 20, 2007 Mike, I think you have it 180* out, the grip safety was added at the request of the government. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Watson Posted June 20, 2007 Share Posted June 20, 2007 None of the above. Mr Browning and Colt added a grip safety to the 1905 at the request of the Army to produce the 1907 and several later test guns. Mr Browning and Colt added a thumb safety to the 1910 grip safety only prototype at the request of the Army to produce the 1911 as adopted. Except for the 1900 model's oddball rear sight safety - which was taken off of any of them Colt got back for service - none of the Colt- Browning exposed hammer guns had any safety but the flying firing pin until the 1907. The original true hammerless 1900 .32 had a thumb safety. The 1903 and later concealed hammer guns, including the odd 1908 concealed hammer .45, had thumb and grip safeties, so I don't think you can say that Mr Browning thought the grip safety was useless. Or if he did, he kept quiet and delivered what the customer (Colt and FN) wanted. Mr Browning gets a lot of credit for his inventiveness, less for his business acumen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmoney Posted June 20, 2007 Share Posted June 20, 2007 Since Patrick Sweeney is around maybe he will weigh in on the history. I hope so. I think Patrick and John Moses Browning used to shoot together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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