Alliant Promo

[ChrisStock]

I have a chance to pick up 8 lbs. of Alliant Promo for $70 locally, and wanted to know if anyone has much experience with it. It seems like a good price, but I would hate to drop money on a sub standard product if it were that.

I shoot a 50/50 mix of cast lead and FMJ in 115gr. I just finished off a lb. of TG, and it is a smoking horror with the cast lead. It's ok if you're outdoors and no one is downwind, but other than that, too smoky for me.

I believe that I performed due dilligence with a forum search, but didn't find any definite go/no-go information. I know someone here has the information , just hoping my request finds the right person. Thanks in advance!

Edited May 23, 2007 by Lighteye67

[1911user]

I looked into it a little bit. It's very similar to red dot powder, but more dense. From the literature, it would substitute for red dot on a weight (but not volume) basis in shotgun ammo. It'd be worth an email to alliant first, but I'll be surprised if you couldn't use red dot load data.

I looked at the powder cost in a reloaded handgun round. It doesn't really matter what powder is used since the charge weights are small (large loads of VV excepted ). I didn't pursue the promo powder and kept using 231.

Post what you find out from alliant.

Edited May 23, 2007 by 1911user

[ChrisStock]

I guess the answer is as straight from the source as you're likely to get. I just got off of the phone with Ben, the customer service manager at Alliant, and was told when loading Promo for 9MM Luger to use the exact same load data as Red Dot, grain for grain. Thought I'd pass it on to all here. Tons of Red Dot data available on this interwebby thing, so life gets simple for a moment. Enjoy

[Carlos]

Please report back with your results.

Former user of Red Dot. Dirty stuff.

What about their "E3" powder? It is also supposed to match red dot - only more clean.

[mattjoe]

Please report back with your results.

Former user of Red Dot. Dirty stuff.

What about their "E3" powder? It is also supposed to match red dot - only more clean.

I've been using promo in the 9, 45, and 40 for years. I shoot a lot of shotgun, and switched over to promo for the 12ga probably 5 or 6 years ago. Figured it's essentially red dot, so I can use it in my pistols too, tried it, and found nothing wrong with it. Guns worked, didn't blow up cases or guns. Now the data is there, that's good. I don't shoot those calibers at USPSA matches, and I don't use those guns terribly often, so I am not concerned with the velocities they were putting out. Yes, it's a dirty powder. But that's totally acceptable to me due to the low price. The powder isn't so dirty that it would cause jams after a couple hundred rounds or anything, it just smoked some, and left a bunch of crud in the guns. Nothing rem oil and some paper towels wouldn't clean out.

E3, word in the shotgun community is, it is much cleaner than the promo, but then, it's more expensive too, and I'll spend the money saved on expensive powders for the 38super instead.

[ChrisStock]

:::Range Report:::

Took the first test rounds out to the range today to test with the FNP9. I used 4.5 grains of Promo pushing a 115GR FMJ Winchester bulk bullet with mixed headstamp brass {Yes, I'm the range brass scrounging whore}. OAL between 1.140 and 1.145. Everything went flawlessly with significantly less recoil than the WWB that I followed these up with. No smoke, no excess filth, no scorched cases. By no excess filth, I mean no more than I experienced with Ramshot Zip or Titegroup. Posted data from Alliant puts this load at 1150 FPS, and since the recoil was so low, it could be bumped up easily if you feel the need for speed. For target/training ammo, it performed spectacularly. I wish that my chrono was here already so that I could provide more specific data.

The 2 biggest differences I noted when preparing these loads were: 1.) the powder granules seemed a tad coarser, and didn't flow as easily as the Ramshot seemed to. 2.) Though the powder weight was identical to the Ramshot and TG loads, the case was 80% full versus 35% with the other two. In hindsight, I don't know how much you could bump up the load if you were to use 124 GR or 147 GR bullets. I don't have any to test with right now, and I found the load that I'm happy with right out of the gate. At 15 yd, shooting in strings of 3 shots, accuracy wasn't an issue, as each string was under 2.5" shooting from the bench, and my beat up hands.

T & T Reloading is having a decent special on it right now at under $77 for 8 lbs. Since I bought a few K of primers, and they shipped together, no extra hazmat fee. Hopefully this helps someone looking to get started or practice on a tighter budget.

[sargenv]

I bought a keg some time ago when someone else was ordering from powder valley. I'm looking to make up some minor 40 loads for revolver. My current supply of Ramshot Competition is running low and I thought this to be a nice alternative. Will probably start making up a load for it sometime soon.

Vince

[ChrisStock]

Update...when using Promo with cast lead bullets indoors....wear a mask I managed to make a cloud 20' across in Bill Jackson's indoor range today. Totally obscured the target area thanks to the fans blowing it all downrange. Outdoors isn't noticeable much, but indoors is bad.

[3GunF1Guy]

Please report back with your results.

Former user of Red Dot. Dirty stuff.

What about their "E3" powder? It is also supposed to match red dot - only more clean.

E3 is the same burn speed as red dot and promo. But you can not use it the same as red dot it is 10% denser. So if you are using 4.5 grains of red dot/promo you need to use about 4.05 grains of E3. I can conferm that it is VERY clean. I use it in my shotgun and love it.

Scott

[XRe]

E3 is the same burn speed as red dot and promo. But you can not use it the same as red dot it is 10% denser. So if you are using 4.5 grains of red dot/promo you need to use about 4.05 grains of E3. I can conferm that it is VERY clean. I use it in my shotgun and love it.

Hang on, now... If 10% less E3 (by weight, not volume) gives the same result as a given charge of Red Dot or Promo, they do not have the same burn rate... It would appear that E3 is a bit faster, if that's true.

Are you sure you're not mixing the variables up, here? Density is the volume occupied by the charge per a given weight. A powder that is more dense takes up less room in the case for the same charge weight. That's important if you're using a bushing to measure powder for you - you have to change bushings to a smaller bushing to compensate and still get the same charge weight. On a pistol press, you would change your powder measure setting to get the same charge weight between the two powders. But, if the burn rates are "the same" - equal charge weights should yield roughly the same results (minus any effects of initial pressure caused by the difference in free case volume or lack thereof, as a function of the density). And, I'm speaking real burn rate, here, and performance in real cartridges, not test data displayed on a burn rate chart (which is not always true data in the cartridges we're running).

[3GunF1Guy]

Burn rate and density ARE NOT related!!!!! Do not ever load based on volume. (even though we do) You always want to load with a weight charge. E3 is 10% denser. Weight for weight it requires 10% less powder to do the same amount of work. I don't know if you would call it denser or 10% more energy per grain of powder with the same burn rate as Red Dot or Promo. When ever you purchase a container of Promo you always need to weigh the charge and change the bushing or the powder bar setting to get the weight you want. Promo's density changes from lot to lot due to the fact it is a blended powder that Alliant makes up to get rid of over runs of bulk powder. Thats why is it less expensive.

E3 just requires 10% less weight than Red Dot does, but it still has the same burn rate and speed.

Scott

[rafab]

I just came by 1K 158gr 0.357 diameter LRN bullets. Does anyone have a Promo Load to work with this bullet for 9mm IPSC shooting?

Thanks in advance

Cheers

Rafa

[wgj3]

Use Red Dot data. Same charge weight, but different volume.

[rafab]

wgj3, thanks for the quick response. I haven't found one in my manuals for a 158gr bullet LRN. Could I use one for a LWC or does the charge fluctuate to much?

[Ken_Bird]

Please report back with your results.

Former user of Red Dot. Dirty stuff.

What about their "E3" powder? It is also supposed to match red dot - only more clean.

I use E3 and have been very happy with it.

[stickboy44]

I like E3 a lot 3.7gr. 132pf. out of a Glock 34

[Steve RA]

I am under the impression that E3 and Clays were/are very similar, is this incorrect ???

[Toyotafrank]

I use red dot for practice ammo and it shoots great. 9MM 147 out of M&P pro 134 PF and hits just a touch harder than AutoComp but not anough that I couldnt use it for match ammo. If I keep struggling to get AutoComp i will shoot red dot.

[wgj3]

wgj3, thanks for the quick response. I haven't found one in my manuals for a 158gr bullet LRN. Could I use one for a LWC or does the charge fluctuate to much?

That should be perfectly fine. Consider reducing the charge by 10-15% or so to get started and chrono a few before loading a bunch. I suspect you will be fine.

[bowenbuilt]

e3 and Clays will give very similar results when using the same powder charge but e3 is slower than Clays and much more forgiving. Clays wants to pop the heads off of your brass when you push it hard while e3 just keeps increasing velocity and stays predictable. Red Dot, Promo and e3 are all in the same family with e3 being the most efficient and cleaner burning of the 3.

Edited May 31, 2014 by bowenbuilt

[ChrisStock]

Amazing to see a 7 year old thread resurrected from the past. I went to T&T and see that the price has more than doubled for Promo...ouch.

Edited May 31, 2014 by ChrisStock

[Banacek]

I will chime it to see if anyone adds some load data for other than 9mm.  I am not reloading shotgun anymore since lead costs too much and factory ammo can be purchased for less than it costs to reload.  I have 4+ pounds of Alliant Promo left over and want to use it something.  

[4n2t0]

16 hours ago, Banacek said:

I will chime it to see if anyone adds some load data for other than 9mm.  I am not reloading shotgun anymore since lead costs too much and factory ammo can be purchased for less than it costs to reload.  I have 4+ pounds of Alliant Promo left over and want to use it something.  

 

You shouldn't have any problem finding tons of data, just use Red Dot data by weight.

[chetc]

I been reading about this E3, i bought a lb to try, i have 3 different powder measures, none throw consistent charges. gonna hate to weigh each load.

 

chet