Grip

[spook]

A new thread to follow up Paul's last, about the flich/timing thing. I was wondering (ans so was Paul I believe) how much pressure you apply when shooting your revo. Compared to autos. Comparison between light anb heavy loads etc. What do you notice when you shoot from this perspective?

I'll go first

I notice that when I do live fire excercise, the pressure seems to be bigger (compared to dry fire). I put a near death grip on my gun.

If I loosen up, I get awful split times, but the gun does come down nicely (just very slowly).

This made me think. With an auto, the slide does most of the work. Brian says in his book that it doesn't matter how high a gun recoils, if it just comes back the same way/place. I wonder if this also goes for revolver shooters. Jerr M. holds his gun so high that the web of his hand almost touches the spur of the hammer when he's shooting. He does this to cut down recoil. So appearently to him it matters how high the gun recoils. I also read an article one in which he said that it is VERY important to watch the FS all the way through the shot. STAYING with it, not just calling it and waiting until it's back in the notch.

So I wonder how all this is affected by grip pressure. Please tell me your experiences

Bjorn

[Bubber]

Spook,

          Far from being an expert on the subject, I find my grip tension is dependent on the stage being shot.  On a plate rack I grip tighter, but never a death grip.  I also grip more with the weak hand allowing my strong hand to more smoothly pull the trigger.  I do grab high on the revo, so much I have to remove the hammer spur so as not to hit my hand.  I don't fight the recoil and on a stock or limited revo I let it recoil.  "I" recover faster when I do this.  Lighter bullets will be snappy but recover faster also.  Just my thoughts..  Bubber                  "Here I am at this place again,  In between where I'm going and where I've been"

[phara]

That's an interesting observation Bubber.  I have noticed in the middle of shooting a 6 shot string quickly at a berm (no targets) just watching the front sight, that when I firm up the grip the recoil becomes significantly less and the sights line up more consistantly.  I could see how firming up the grip to shoot plates would make acquiring the next plate happen faster.

By the way, shooting at the berm with no targets really does let you see how different grip tensions and hand positions affect your recoil and sight rebound.  With 6 rounds you have enough to change your grip in the middle of a fast string to see how the gun reacts.

Paul

[George D]

Firming the grip may have a positive effect on recoil recovery but a negative on other aspects such as muscle control and trigger control. Brian notes in the revolver section of his book that revolver do not self-recover from recoil as well as an auto.

[phara]

I think Bubber's post is the best compromise.  If your gonna use a firm grip then use the weak hand to do it.  This leaves your strong hand flexible for a fast trigger pull!

But seriously, try shooting at a berm or at something that doesn't distract you from seeing only your front sight.  Here all the theory goes out the window.  You can actually see what happens when you increase or decrease your grip tension.  Once you find out what grip tension or grip position works for you then you know what to practice.

Paul

[spook]

Bubber, I hear ya. It's definately a must to have a relaxed strong hand grip. I've noticed that it's good to have a high grip for recoil contol, but with the high grip I cannot pull the trigger fast enough. There's too much finger in the guard and I'm pulling it with the second pad (is this correct English?) of my finger.

I find that I can pull the trigger the fastest with the pad of my finger towards the first joint. But when I want to do this, I have to grip really low on the gun. The reason is probably that I have large hands.

George, that's exactly the point of my thread. Revolvers don't recover as well as autos do. So how do you deal with that?

Paul, I think you're right. Just seeing what happens when you shoot is the best way to find out.

I was wondering. I seem to have real trouble with my support hand, concernig it's position on the gun. It feels like it doesn't do much at all. Sometimes I wonder if I need it at all . Do you have any things you watch for with your support hand?

Bjorn

[Bubber]

Spook,  I find that I cannot win when I fight the recoil.   My equipment fights the recoil for me.  My revo has hybrid ports in the barrel, seven of them.  Also two Kreb's or open sided ports at the end.   We have been shooting these ported guns for some time.  I think my gunsmith built his first ported Revo in the 80's.  I also use light bullets traveling at around 1000 feet per second creating more gasses to work the ports.  And in a stock revo I just let it work and when it gives me an acceptable sight picture I squeeze the trigger again.  I must say that I am not an expert but have been shooting a Open revo for some  time now.  And I am still learning and experimenting with bullets and powder.

 

[Viggen]

A while back while dry firing for some unknown reason my hands began to grip the revolver differently. Used to be that the dominant hand(trigger hand) would have the most grip pressure. But now the hands, seemingly on their own, changed to where the non dominant hand is about 60-70% and the dominant hand the rest.

I found that to be rather interesting since I was not thinking to change my grip.

What this means, I don't know yet.

And so far it doesn't seem to have helped my shooting.

And Bubber, the L-frame started having a light primer strick occasionally and the gun felt somehow different maybe a month ago. I couldn't figure out what had happened - seemed that it might have been some stray powder flakes somewhere. I continued to dry fire and everything seemed to smooth out.

Yesterday I disassembled the gun for the first time. What I found was the pin that the hammer pivots on had snapped off and was being held in place by the side plate. It had gotten smoother again but that pin was was snapped off at the frame.

I think it goes to a gunsmith now or is there some other fix.

[SmallPaul]

Viggen - Not the gunsmith

Send the frame to Smith, they can fix it. Most gunsmiths don't have the tooling or (frankly) skills to fix and fit the Hammer pivot pin and associcated bearing races etc.

(Edited by SmallPaul at 8:03 am on Feb. 4, 2003)

[phara]

I know this is off topic but Viggen, do you use an Outers Foul Out on your gun?  I had a trigger pivot pin snap off shortly after I started using the Foul Out II.  I was clipping the electrode to the trigger and thought that maybe electrolysis was the culprit (or maybe coincidence?).

Paul

[Bubber]

Viggen,  I whole hearted agree with Small Paul and would send it to S&W for Repair.   A good gunsmith is capable of the repair and a friend of mine did repair my L Frame and did a fine job of it.  But when I broke my N frame he has said that S&W has all the stuff that they need to repair it.  My N frame trigger pivot pin and hammer pivot pin were replaced.  I can't remember what the cost was or even if they charged me I was just happy to get it back before last years IRC.

[Viggen]

Maybe the pin broke because my grip change and I crushed it. :-)

Thanks guys, I' will be contacting S&W for the pin replacement.

Phara, I have not used Outers Foul Out. The gun was not bought new so I don't know if that had ever been used before. I had put about 7,000-rounds through the gun before the pin broke.

[Patrick Sweeney]

Hey, you male 20 million guns, some of the parts will break.  S&W will be good aobut fixing it.  I saw a couple in two decades, and both got fixed fast and inexpensively.

[phara]

I agree with Patrick. On my blued model 19 the trigger pivot pin has to be forced out through the frame.  This of course means a blemish will appear on the frame surface.  S&W fixed the pin and reblued the gun and didn't charge me!!!!  This was a couple of years ago though.  Free services usually go away with time!

Paul