Stage Doping

[IYAOYAS]

Ok I've got a new question for you guys. Now I'm not trying to start anything so don't flame

me.

At a resent match most of my squad would take off after they shot . It sucked because 3 of us got stuck scoring and ROing . When I asked the guys what was going on I was told that they were going down to other stages and getting the dope on how to shoot them by watching and talking to the other squads that had already shot the stage.My question is should I be doing it too?I was told that they read it in Saul's book .

I'm very confused. I was told to clean and reload my mags then lend a hand with the taping and ROing.

What do you think?

Thanks

[toowide]

Ok I've got a new question for you guys. Now I'm not trying to start anything so don't flame

me.

At a resent match most of my squad would take off after they shot . It sucked because 3 of us got stuck scoring and ROing . When I asked the guys what was going on I was told that they were going down to other stages and getting the dope on how to shoot them by watching and talking to the other squads that had already shot the stage.My question is should I be doing it too?I was told that they read it in Saul's book .

I'm very confused. I was told to clean and reload my mags then lend a hand with the taping and ROing.

What do you think?

Thanks

you are doing the right thing. if everyone helps paste and ro then the squad will finish faster and can go to the next stage as a group and watch the last of the other squad shoot the stage if you are lucky. if not well i guess your squad will have to "suffer through" the stage just like the first squad of the day did. it is just not right to leave your stage early to get a leg up on the next one and leave the rest of your squad mates to trudge through. just my 2 cents.

[XRe]

Saul suggests looking stages over early - before the match - and talking with fellow competitors, etc. He didn't say "Be an ass-monkey and abandon your squad like a bunch of pansies...."

Are these the same "Masters" you referred to the other post???

[IYAOYAS]

Saul suggests looking stages over early - before the match - and talking with fellow competitors, etc. He didn't say "Be an ass-monkey and abandon your squad like a bunch of pansies...."

Are these the same "Masters" you referred to the other post???

No they're the other two that stayed and helped. Both are very good shooters and play well with others.

[ihatepickles]

Well, that sucks. Before the next match, I would ask the match director to address this issue during the walk-through. This is something my local match director always talks to us about, I can only assume sometime in the past it was an issue - but it's not an issue today.

[XRe]

No they're the other two that stayed and helped. Both are very good shooters and play well with others.

Well... at least there's that!!!

[toowide]

. He didn't say "Be an ass-monkey and abandon your squad like a bunch of pansies...."

Well put.

[GentlemanJim]

The wife and I always help as much as we can taping setting picking.

We drive 2 hours each way to the range so we get there too late to set up..but we stay to the end and tear down and put away all the stuff so do most of the other shooters.

our squads stay together all the way ...I think that is the way its done.

Jim

[Chris Keen]

The squad should stay together. End of story. No one is so special that they can leave to investigate the next stage. Sounds to me like laziness in action.

Not wanting to do their share of the work. They can't find anywhere good to hide, so instead they go off and "act busy" at the next stage. CLS (Classic Loser Syndrome)

When everybody works together the squad finishes the stage they're on in record time.

[BritinUSA]

Thats stuff about walking over to the next stage only works when the match is fully staffed. By that I mean that the organisers provide people to patch the targets so that all the shooter has to do is shoot, they don't work at all.

This is something that usually only happens at a World Shoot, for all other matches where the shooters are expected to work, the RO should enforce the work ethic with procedural errors if necessary.

[AlamoShooter]

Now wait this is giving a bad twist on -Stage Dopeing- My understanding of SD is coming up with the best way to shoot a stage - on your own-. not by watching and asking. Allso SD is looking at a stage and being able to tell what the High hit factor will be.

how fast is can be shot and how many points down.

Ok and some times I will walk ahead and look ,=!ONlY if I am first up on the next stage. I do feal bad when I do it though.

Ass-Monkey Dave you are always out doing your self with the pearls.

[Chris Keen]

... some times I will walk ahead and look , ONLY if I am first up on the next stage. And I feel bad when I do it too.

+1 & +1 to that comment.

[aerosigns]

IYAOYAS,

I think you're doing it right. If everyone doesn't pull their share of the load, the whole thing won't last long.

At the 2006 Nationals I watched Jerry Miculek. He pasted and reset just like every other guy on the squad. He didn't feel the need to run down and see what was happening somewhere else.

I was on another squad, and he came down to watch a stage I was shooting. He did it when his squad wasn't scheduled, not while others were shooting. If Jerry didn't think it was right or necessary, I doubt the guys you had can claim they need that kind of 'edge'.

Some peer pressure might be the answer here.

[G-ManBart]

Not to pick on someone I don't know, but I think anybody doing that is just selfish. I can understand wanting to look at the stages in advance, but if they're off doing that, they're screwing the guys that pasted and picked brass for them. I find it annoying when it's my turn to shoot and I have to pick up my own brass and magazines afterwards when all I should be doing is walking with the scorer, signing my sheet and taking a minute to think about how I shot.

[CDRODA396]

Probably the same guys that are sandbagging...anything to win. Reisist the Dark Side...in the long run you'll enjoy the "total" experience more, be respected for for your actions, and eventually spank those guys without playing their game! (At least that's what I keep telling myself! )

[BSeevers]

As a RO I would not hesitate to give a procedural or even a DQ for that behavior.

As a shooter I would let the RO know if my squadmates were doing that BS too. Its selfish, cheating and very AzzMonkeyish

[Mr. Chitlin]

When they walk off and watch the other squads shoot, they need to be the first on the line to shoot when your squad gets up. That will give the "left behinds" an opportunity to "dope" the stage, too.

Edited April 29, 2007 by Mr. Chitlin

[IYAOYAS]

When they walk off and watch the other squads shoot, they need to be the first on the line to shoot when your squad gets up. That will give the "left behinds" an opportunity to "dope" the stage, too.

Thats a great idea!!!. Have them go 1st everytime they split. They were alway the last to shoot.

Cool now I have a recourse.

Thanks

[John Baier]

This has happened at a few majors that I have worked. I have no problem telling them to back to thier squad. At local matches this ussually isn't a problem and if it is, well it has it's way of working itself out

[bayoupirate]

Ass Monkeys deserve Ass Monkey Treatment.

If I were ROing. I'd tell the shooters still at the stage NOT to reset the stage.

When the ass monkeys returned, I'd explain (very sincerely and nicely, as though they were newbie shooters) that they are expected to remain with the squad and help with the taping and pasting until the enitre squad is finished. Since they had violated this protocol, I was giving them the opportunity to redeem themselves by resetting, painting and pasting the stage.

I'd let them say they were sorry and get to it.

And I'd say, "No problem boys, if you'll stick with us and lend a hand we'll probably finish in time to get to the next stage before the other squad is finished shooting."

Edited April 29, 2007 by bayoupirate

[titandriver]

I think ya got it backwards; make them the last ones to shoot on your squad. That way you leave the targets untaped, steel down & unpainted, activated targets unset after your last "worker" shooter is scored. All of you who do the work can then leave the line to load & clean mags, prep for the next stage, etc. The non-workers, if they want to shoot, will then be forced to tape, set steel, brass & RO themselves, undoubtably perplexed that no one is helping out. They'll get the hint eventually!

[Flatland Shooter]

I've been lucky. I've never been with a squad where the majority walked off leaving one or two remaining shooters to tape and RO the stage.

Last Fall I shot with a group that flat a$$ would not tolerate it. Had one shooter (they nicknamed him the "Prima Donna") that spent all his spare time cleaning mags, making adjustments to his range bag, etc.

After two stages of this, he walked up to the starting box on the third stage and to his amazement, steel was not reset, targets were not taped. And when he complained, noone came forward to do the taping and resetting. We were busy cleaning magazines and adjusting our range bags.

On the next stage he once again went missing. One of the squad advised him why his targets were not taped, his steel was not reset. It finally dawned on him to help out.

Bill

[Joe4d]

For some reason our normal anti confrontational nature sometimes causes us to put up with more than we need to. As an RO you have a responsibility to enforce the rules as written. I didnt see room for a procedural penalty. But I do see 10.6.1 Match DQ for unsportsmanlike conduct. If you feel that is grey the match officer can tell them "Stay with the squad and help reset" if they dont they are failing to comply with reasonable directions of a Match official As a side note Last night night match on Oahu I had a great squad everyone helped out everyone had fun. and everyone had a miss probably tagged a no shoot as well there were a bunch.

[Micah]

Saul talks about (and I am looking at his book again now) checking out the stages BEFORE the match begins to give yourself a chance to make solid plans. This is never at the expense of leaving your squad high and dry.

I've been there too, and feel vindicated to politely remind them that they have squad duties along with everyone else.

What is truly important here is that you not allow trivial things like this to come between you and the shooting. Getting honked off is more than likely not going to help you shoot better.

[Jake Di Vita]

I wouldn't go as far as to call it cheating, because it isn't. But it is definetely bad form and should not be done.