Limited/standard

[ErikW]

I'm thinking of going (back) to Tanfoglios after 8 years with custom STI Limited guns. Even though I managed to earn a GM card with it, the modular grip just never felt right in my hands. I do a lot of re-gripping and adjusting with it. The CZ-derived ergonomics suit me better. But I have some specific needs to address before I commit to a Tanfoglio Limited gun...

Can you get a fixed rear sight to replace the adjustable sight? Years ago EAA had two different fixed sights that fit in the Super Sight cut. One was a "combat" Novak-style, which I don't care for, and one was a "target" notch-in-a-barn-door style, which is acceptable. This is pretty much a deal breaker for me because I have broken just about every adjustable sight I've ever used on a pistol, from Super Sights to Bo-Mars to Wilsons.

Are the front sights removable in a dovetail or are they integral to the slide like other models? How wide is the blade? I may want to thin it.

I want to shoot mainly USPSA Limited, but also IPSC Standard at the next World Shoot. So I need 140mm magazines and box-compliant magazines. I see your shop has turnkey 140mm mags (well, OK, they need a little trimming). Is the "Magazine, blued (Large)" with the aluminum pad the one to get for Standard? What's its capacity in .40S&W?

I want a trigger pull of two pounds or less. I've got a nice trigger in my custom P9, which has some combination of old WCPI and/or EGW parts. What fire control parts are available for a sub-2# trigger? Who has the juju to do it?

Does the gun come with an ambi safety? I see you offer one in your shop. Does it have that angled shelf like the stock safety? (I love it because it lets me rock it back on with my thumb knuckle.)

Do you know of any gunsmiths who will put a tungsten sleeve on the bull barrel? I like the softer feel they gave me in my STIs.

[ReyesR]

You might already know this, but I would call Henning. He is the man on Tanfoglio....

[sinnsyk]

Erik,

Everything you're asking for is available, will be available or can be done.

Fixed sights; there is a factory sight (see tactical sight in my shop) that I think would be impossible to break. I'm actually thinking of having a custom fixed sight made too, but this one would do the trick as is.

Factory front blades are .125". I turn mine down to .090" which is easy enough to do. There is a factory fiber optic sight available, but I'm not a crazy fan of it. The dots too big for my taste. I've talked to Bob Londrigan and he's working on making a custom fiber sight for the Tanfoglio. However Bob would like to make the dovetail cut wider to give it more rigidity. This would of course mean the slide would have to be re-cut (but it'll have the same "Henning Cut". The current Tanfoglio front dovetail cut is my design and input to the factory from 1997-1998). It's a much sleeker look than the traditional 1911 side-cut. It's soon to be a classic for even 1911 custom gun builders who care about esthetics... Once Bob have them made you could install this cut on your 1911 or any gun / new slide. It will look much sharper than a side dovetail-cut.

Erik; I'm on it. The current available setups are fine, I use them and it works for me. But give Bob a little time to come up with a custom fiber and myself a little time to build a custom fixed sight and it'll be smokin' setup.

IPSC 40 capacity is 18 + 1 w/ my mag setup

USPSA 40 capacity is 21 + 1 w/ my mag setup

Read more about it in the Tanfoglio Tech Section. It explains how the mags are tweaked so you could even do it yourself if you want to.

Trigger. Factory trigger-setup, in my opinion, is mediocre. Well, it can be made to be pretty good, but we can do better. WCPI (Huening) had a great hammer that faded out of production in the mid 90's. Well, I've been on EGW for the past two years and George is on it. He's coming out with a hammer that'll match the EGW sear. I got hold of a couple of WCPI hammers, well, back in early 90's and still use them! That says something about how long they last! I have 2# triggers with very little reset and they are just great. You can put Wolff 13# hammer spring in and you're good to go. EGW has a 20% lighter firing pin that's good to match with it. I'm working on a long firing pin that'll eliminate primer flow and also will make it 100% reliable w/ rifle primers. IT'S ALL IN THE WORKS and I hope to bring it all to the table this summer!

I could never figure out if the guns come with ambi safeties or not. I always special order mine and specify ambi safeties on everything. If the gun doesn't come with it, it's easy enough to install.

You can get the shelf safety (left side only) in ambi. I'm planning on stocking this one since you're not the only one loving it.

Rich Dettlehouser, Canyon Creek Custom, has moved into the EAA world and is soon to be the new authority on custom EAA pistols. I'm sure Rich would have no problem modifying a barrel w/ a tungsten sleeve. Also, George Smith of EGW could do this. EGW has almost 20 years of experience with EAA pistols. He did all the guns for Doug Koenig when he was shooting for EAA in the early 90's. This brings up the point that Tanfoglio pistols has won 4 World IPSC Championships (Doug in '90, Eric the last three).

Before you put a tungsten sleeve on it, I would shoot it as is. I haven't tried the tungsten sleeve so I couldn't say it's better, but the gun shoots pretty darn good as is. I'm really impressed with how the gun handles itself. I use 180gr bullets and fast powders like Clays or N-310. Lots of grip tape, solid grip and sharp focus turns the gun into a master blaster.

Edited March 14, 2007 by sinnsyk

[Carlos]

Erik, I use 180gr bullets and fast powders like Clays or N-310. Lots of grip tape, solid grip and sharp focus turns the gun into a master blaster.

The Tanfoglio competition guns now all use their "large" frame - even the .40 and 9mm guns. Since Tanfoglio large frame was designed to handle the .45 and .38 super OALs, then the magazines to fit these frames should also accomodate long-loaded .40 ammo (I would prefer a longer OAL when using straight Clays and N310 with 180s loaded to major).

Henning - are the Tanfoglios throated to accept .40 loaded out to 1.200" or so?

BTW - the extra room in the mag is a small difference between the CZ Tactical Sport .40 and 9mm (max OAL in the mag is 1.170") and the Tanfoglio competition guns.

[Grayrider]

It is interesting that despite the 10mm and 40 being based on the same large frame platform, there are still magazine and mag well differences. I was practicing with my 40 Limited last night and accidentally got one of my 10mm Limited's mags in my bag. I was happily making magazine changes when the last mag got stuck in the well.

Fortunately I had not pounded it with much force, but it broke my rhythm. The 10mm mags sort of fit in the 40, but do not drop free or seat without effort. I need to sort my mags out better. Right now I have this drawer full of 9mm, 38 Super, 40, and 10mm large frame mags all tossed in together.

John

Erik, I use 180gr bullets and fast powders like Clays or N-310. Lots of grip tape, solid grip and sharp focus turns the gun into a master blaster.

The Tanfoglio competition guns now all use their "large" frame - even the .40 and 9mm guns. Since Tanfoglio large frame was designed to handle the .45 and .38 super OALs, then the magazines to fit these frames should also accomodate long-loaded .40 ammo (I would prefer a longer OAL when using straight Clays and N310 with 180s loaded to major).

Henning - are the Tanfoglios throated to accept .40 loaded out to 1.200" or so?

BTW - the extra room in the mag is a small difference between the CZ Tactical Sport .40 and 9mm (max OAL in the mag is 1.170") and the Tanfoglio competition guns.

[sinnsyk]

EAA made a decision some years back to eliminate the confusion between small and large frame, so for the past few years (I'm not sure how long) they only sold the large frame.

It's simplifies things a lot and makes it possible to convert a gun from one caliber to another.

However, there are a couple of things to keep in mind:

9mm Large Frame magazines. There might be some full-length 9mm magazines floating around. What this means they are basically the same mags as the 38 super mags. If you want to seat out your 9mms; which means you'd have to re-chamber for a long 9mm, you could use the 38 super mags to work in 9mm long. Mags are for all practical purposes, the same. Now, if you're shooting factory 9x19 ammo, the newer mags have a spacer in front to keep the rounds stacked correctly in the large mags.

40mm Large Frame magazines. Same thing here. You can come across mags w/ spacer and without. All mags currently available, as far as I know, as w/o spacer. I've got a shipment of mags coming in today so once I've looked them over I can give you all a better idea of what they are.

10mm and 40sw mags. I'm getting some in today so I'll compare and post my findings.

[Grayrider]

My observation is that the 40 mags are more tapered at the front, resulting in a slightly shorter mag (front to back) with a tighter profile towards the nose of the rounds. None of mine have a spacer. The interesting thing to me is that having the 10mm mags fit tightly in the large frame 40 guns suggests that the guns themselves have slightly different internal mag well dimensions. I would have expected Tanfoglio to cut them all to the 10mm sized magazine dimensions. I have found that the 10mm magazines fit too tightly both in my current 40 Limited and my previous 40 Stock. As for magazine differences, one can stuff about 11 rounds of 10mm in the 40 mags before they hang up. I have done this on accident. Again I need to sort my mags better.

I do have both kinds of 9mm mags, with track and without. My Stock runs fine with either after my smith (Jeff Cockrum) tuned it a bit. I did not have the tracked mag before he worked on it, so don't know if that would have made a difference. I also use the non-tracked mags to run .38 Super in my Match without problem. They appear to be identical to the current Super mags despite the 9mm marking.

John

EAA made a decision some years back to eliminate the confusion between small and large frame, so for the past few years (I'm not sure how long) they only sold the large frame.

It's simplifies things a lot and makes it possible to convert a gun from one caliber to another.

However, there are a couple of things to keep in mind:

9mm Large Frame magazines. There might be some full-length 9mm magazines floating around. What this means they are basically the same mags as the 38 super mags. If you want to seat out your 9mms; which means you'd have to re-chamber for a long 9mm, you could use the 38 super mags to work in 9mm long. Mags are for all practical purposes, the same. Now, if you're shooting factory 9x19 ammo, the newer mags have a spacer in front to keep the rounds stacked correctly in the large mags.

40mm Large Frame magazines. Same thing here. You can come across mags w/ spacer and without. All mags currently available, as far as I know, as w/o spacer. I've got a shipment of mags coming in today so once I've looked them over I can give you all a better idea of what they are.

10mm and 40sw mags. I'm getting some in today so I'll compare and post my findings.

[sinnsyk]

Well...

Here's the deal. I got a package today with 9mm, 38 super, 40 S&W and 10mm mags today.

38 SUPER

They have a new style magazines now which look awesome. They look very much like STI with 2 rails instead of the entire side pushed in (like SVI mags). And the great news is... with a little tweaking I can get 24 + 1 rounds in the 140mm magazines!!!

9 MM

They are identical to the previous model 38 super mags (they've been the same for a while). So if you like this style mag, you can use them for either 9mm or 38 super. For 38 super they'll fit 23 + 1, not sure about 9mm yet, but I can check that here shortly. I also have some 9mm mags with the indent and I honestly expected these mags to have indents. In a way it's nice because you can load your 9mms out as long as you have a long chamber (rechamber for 9x23 if you want too).

40 S&W (FACTORY AMMO)

Be sure you order what you want here. The mags I got had the indent which are designed to work better for 40 S&W factory ammo. These mags cannot be used with the Grams kit to extend the capacity. You could put a alu pad on them, but they will never hold more than 16 + 1 rounds, ever!

40 S&W (1.200" RELOADS)

If you're looking for mags for your Limited then order the 10mm mags. They are exatcly like the old style 40 S&W mags and allow for 1.200" OAL. They allow for 21 + 1 capacity with CPMI pad & Grams kit. If you order 40 S&W mags from my store, this is what I'm going to send you. I'm also going to alter my store to explain this in short and give you the option of 40S&W factory ammo mags and 40S&W reload ammo mags.

I hate that I have to explain this, because it means there's always room for confusion. It's really not that complicated and if you have any questions before ordering mags, just email me and we'll figure out together what you really want.

[Skywalker]

Henning, just a quick question on behalf of a teammate: in your online shop you list two different "Competition Magazine for Large Frame, blued " in 40S&W, one with 21+1 capacity (which I assume is a 140mm USPSA gauge compliant mag), and one with a 18+1 capacity.

How's the last one different from the previous?

Is this latter IPSC box compliant perhaps?

Edited March 16, 2007 by Skywalker

[Grayrider]

Henning,

Just a word of caution, be sure those 10mm mags seat properly in your 40 Limited. My 10mm mags do not seat in mine, nor did they fit in my 40 Stock. As mentioned in my post, Tanfoglio seems to have altered the mag well somewhat in the 40 caliber guns to fit the slightly different 40 mags. The 10mm mags will go in but only with considerable effort and will not drop free. Again this is with a large frame 40 and 10mm.

John

Henning, just a quick question on behalf of a teammate: in your online shop you list two different "Competition Magazine for Large Frame, blued " in 40S&W, one with 21+1 capacity (which I assume is a 140mm USPSA gauge compliant mag), and one with a 18+1 capacity.

How's the last one different from the previous?

Is this latter IPSC box compliant perhaps?

[sinnsyk]

Henning, just a quick question on behalf of a teammate: in your online shop you list two different "Competition Magazine for Large Frame, blued " in 40S&W, one with 21+1 capacity (which I assume is a 140mm USPSA gauge compliant mag), and one with a 18+1 capacity.

How's the last one different from the previous?

Is this latter IPSC box compliant perhaps?

The 21 + 1 is a USPSA 140mm magazine. It does need a slight shaving to make it legal as the current CPMI pads are little bit too long. It's easy enough to do with a belt sander or a file.

The 18 + 1 is an IPSC box legal magazine. I shoot several IPSC matches and this is the best setup for IPSC standard class. Same great spring/follower from Grams and they work with 18 rounds.

btw. I'm working on my own pads which will be 140mm USPSA legal out-of-the-box. For now I have to get the CPMI pads. They are good pads, just a little pain to have to shave them for USPSA legality.

John,

What year is your Elite Limited and your Elite Stock? I have a 2005 Limited and a 2006 Limited and a 2006 Stock. The mags fit in all of them w/o any problems.

I've compared my EAA 40 s&w full-length (OAL 1.200") mags from 2004 with the EAA 10mm mags from 2007 and they are identical. No change in outer dimensions. Note: there is a slight change in the rear cut by the feed lips, but this has no effect on this. There is also a new cut where the slidestop comes in, but this again makes no difference. All the 2007 magazines have this cut now.

The only difference I see between the 40sw and 10mm mags is that the 40sw mags have a spacer to better accomodate factory loads. This of course makes it ONLY possible to shoot factory length (1.135") loads. Whereas the 10mm mags still allows for 1.200" OAL reloads. This is what we want.

It might be that your mag well doesn't have a great fit or somehow rubs on the mags. Another thing to look for is the grip plates. The grips have a tendency to push in an therefore create a bind on the mags. Take your grip plates off, put them flat on a belt sander and take off material until they don't come into the frame. I've had to do this on my aluminum grip panels.

Other than that I honestly cannot see how the guns can be different. As far as I know Tanfoglio has not changed the dimensions of their frames and I get a fresh supply of guns every year and haven't noticed anything different. What's going on with the lower priced guns, outside the Elite series I don't know.

[Skywalker]

Henning,

thanks for the info.

I assume the 18+1 capacity is obtained with original Tanfoglio/Witness Elite tubes and aluminum basepads, plus Grams spring/follower combo.

If so, my teammate would be greatly interested in buying some spring/follower combo from your shop: do you ship them overseas (namely Italy)?

[sinnsyk]

Luca,

Yes it is. For more information on how it's done:

http://henningshootsguns.com/tech/tech.tan...setup.40sw.html

I can ship springs/follower overseas. Just place the order in the shop:

http://henningshootsguns.com/shop/eaa.elite.tuning.html

I will figure out what the shipping will be and charge him accordingly so don't mind what the shipping says in the checkout.

[Skywalker]

Thanks Henning,

I'll see my teammate on the range tomorrow morning and I'll tell him about this: it'll surely interest him!

[996fan2007]

Henning,

Do the Limited Elite barrels come from the factory throated to allow .40 to be loaded to 1.200"?

Are there any plans to make a longer version of the Limited Elite that would match the frame, barrel length, and sight radius of the CZ-75 TS?

[sinnsyk]

I shoot a Limited 40 that allows for 1.200" OAL. Yes, the throat is chambered for "long".

What's the barrel length and sight radius of the CZ-75 TS? The Limited has a 4.75" barrel and I wouldn't think you'd want it any longer. I saw the new Hunter 10mm at the Shot Show and it's a 6" slide/barrel on a long dustcover frame. It would be pretty cool in Limited class if you lightened the slide considerably etc. I talked to Massimo (Tanfoglio) about that and maybe we'll see a 6" Limited gun some day. Still, I think the 4.75" Limited gun is a very nice setup. It handles beautifully, isn't too heavy yet heavy enough with its all-steel frame.

In my experience and opinion, the Limited 40 (or 10mm) is one of the absolute best Limited guns on the market. And for the price.. the best choice. Very fast shot-2-shot recovery.

[996fan2007]

I shoot a Limited 40 that allows for 1.200" OAL. Yes, the throat is chambered for "long".

What's the barrel length and sight radius of the CZ-75 TS? The Limited has a 4.75" barrel and I wouldn't think you'd want it any longer. I saw the new Hunter 10mm at the Shot Show and it's a 6" slide/barrel on a long dustcover frame. It would be pretty cool in Limited class if you lightened the slide considerably etc. I talked to Massimo (Tanfoglio) about that and maybe we'll see a 6" Limited gun some day. Still, I think the 4.75" Limited gun is a very nice setup. It handles beautifully, isn't too heavy yet heavy enough with its all-steel frame.

In my experience and opinion, the Limited 40 (or 10mm) is one of the absolute best Limited guns on the market. And for the price.. the best choice. Very fast shot-2-shot recovery.

The CZ-75's barrel length is 5.4 inches. Although now that you mention it, the Hunter might make a very interesting Limited gun indeed! I notice that it only comes in 10mm and .45; is a .40 barrel available?

[sfinney]

Anyone know where you can actually find a Limited in .40 in stock?

Can't seem to locate any. Found a couple 10mms, no .40s. I've checked Zanders, EAA, and several EAA dealers, no luck, no ETA when new ones will show up that I could find.

(I also checked with Rich at Canyon Creek, his packages sound nice, but he's still waiting on some parts before he's ready to sell the ones he has, evidently.)

Thanks!

[Gary1911A1]

sfinney, do you mean Canyon Creek does work on the EAA Witness?

[sfinney]

He's getting into them, and is setting up packages to inlcude EGW parts, trigger jobs, ambi safeties, extra mags, spare parts - turn key packages basically. Sounds pretty nice!

[Steve Moneypenny]

My observation is that the 40 mags are more tapered at the front, resulting in a slightly shorter mag (front to back) with a tighter profile towards the nose of the rounds. None of mine have a spacer

This is my experience too.. wondering why my 10mm ammo wouldn't go in the dang 40 mags... darn it i have a 10mm normal witness that i CCW with and wanted to have the ability to use the same mags for my 15 rounders.

Erik, try it without the tungsten sleeve at first. mine was a lot more comfortable than any STI i've ever shot just ste up stock with a slightly lighter recoil spring.

Henning any idea how long it will be before you have your base pads up and running? I've had a guy in PA looking into it.. but he hasn't returned my phone calls.

[sinnsyk]

sfinney,

Rich of Canyon Creek is an old friend of mine from our days in Arizona. He's a really good guy and renowned for his attention to detail. Due to EGW's long waiting list, Rich and I got to talk about him getting into EAA's. He ordered the remaining 40 Limited's EAA had in stock (per January/February) and he's getting up to speed on them. The only thing he's waiting for are the EGW sears to make the guns ready. It'll probably be another 3 weeks or so, but the guns will be match ready. I'd give Rich a call now and order one of them. I don't think they'll last long..

I've ordered a bunch of Limited 40's and will also be offering them along with Gold Team 38's online in my store. They won't be with custom triggers like Rich's, but it's going to be super-easy to order everything you need. The pages for the shop are already made, I'm just waiting for guns. EAA are getting a new shipment in soon, and in a limited quantity. If you're thinking about getting a gun, get in contact with me or Rich. Unfortunately due to high demand and not enough supply it'll all be first come, first serve for a while.

Steve,

There's been several generation magazines. I have a variety of "historic" magazine styles. I'd still like to have someone send me a picture of the narrow front 40 mags compared with a non-narrow 10mm etc. I am using now 10mm mags for 1.200" loads. They work perfect in all of my guns. The current 40 s&w mags have a spacer which makes them factory 40 ammo only (1.135" OAL).

I'm picking up my 140mm mag pad tomorrow from my machine shop. They are going to be real easy to get on/off (no more screws like in the CPMI pads..). Will allow for 21 + 1 in 40 / 10mm USPSA rules and 23/24 + 1 in 38 super (mag style generation dependent).

As soon as I approve the pad (by tomorrow evening), production will start on Thursday and they will be available online shortly after!

I'm also making IPSC pads and will look into making a 170mm pad from the same 140mm design.

[Gary1911A1]

Thanks sfinney. I shot in the same squad as Rich at the Single Stack Classic several years ago. He had some XDs' he had worked on which according to Dave Williams had some very nice triggers so I expect his work on the Witnesses will also be fine. I guess I should call him.

[bubback]

This may be off topic,but I have a question.You people are all talking about the upper end,big dollar pistols.I just want to buy a regular Witness in 40 S & W.I would like someone to tell me the advantages (other than price) that the Witness has over a CZ75.

Thank

[jasmap]

Which CZ 75 and which Witness in .40? EAA has Witness Steel, Witness Compact, Witness Elites, & Witness Polymers.

Edited March 23, 2007 by jasmap