xdrocker Posted March 12, 2007 Share Posted March 12, 2007 You hear that one of the main reasons for shooting 9mm major is so you dont have to pick up the brass cause it's so cheap. Just checking a couple sites on the web and I don't see that. I have been told not to reload the 9 since it's so hard on the brass, so 1 shot and it's done and from what I undestand you can get 6-12 or more out of 38sc. Wish someone would give me a heads-up to where they are getting their 9mm brass so "cheap". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric nielsen Posted March 12, 2007 Share Posted March 12, 2007 Read this thread: http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=45513 If you don't find a supplier, brassmanbrass.com has 9 brass for 2.5c per case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokshwn Posted March 12, 2007 Share Posted March 12, 2007 Around here a good portion of our year is shot in either snow or mud..... try finding your brass 6 or 8 times in that. Just paid 2c per case for 9,000 cases off of the USPSA Classifieds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSMITH Posted March 12, 2007 Share Posted March 12, 2007 You can load 9mm major several times too if your loads aren't silly high in pressure. I have 6 loads on a batch of cases with no problems, primer pockets are still tight and rim expansion is small enough that my .0005" calipers won't register it. Then again I can run my 9mm major loads using 115 grain bullets with Federal Small Pistol primers and not flatten them. I see lots of guys posting that they are flattening primers so they are running a lot more pressure than I am. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Bell Posted March 12, 2007 Share Posted March 12, 2007 You hear that one of the main reasons for shooting 9mm major is so you dont have to pick up the brass cause it's so cheap. Just checking a couple sites on the web and I don't see that. I have been told not to reload the 9 since it's so hard on the brass, so 1 shot and it's done and from what I undestand you can get 6-12 or more out of 38sc. Wish someone would give me a heads-up to where they are getting their 9mm brass so "cheap". I belong to two shooting organizations. One of them is a USPSA club. The other is primarily a bullseye rifle and pistol club. A number of members use the bullseye club range to shoot 9mm pistols. As far as I know, I'm the only person in the club loading 9mm. Once fired cases are often all over the place. I presently have a bit over 1,000 loaded rounds and somewhere around 3,000 cleaned cases available for reloading. 9mm is one of two calibers where the number of cases I pick up for free exceeds the number I loose while shooting. .40 is the other one. The Coast Guard uses my club's range for their qualifications and invariably leaves their .40 brass behind. I sure wish the Coast Guard used 10mm. Lee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlos Posted March 12, 2007 Share Posted March 12, 2007 (edited) You can load 9mm major several times too if your loads aren't silly high in pressure. I have 6 loads on a batch of cases with no problems, primer pockets are still tight and rim expansion is small enough that my .0005" calipers won't register it. Then again I can run my 9mm major loads using 115 grain bullets with Federal Small Pistol primers and not flatten them. I see lots of guys posting that they are flattening primers so they are running a lot more pressure than I am. Agreed. There is probably a wide variation in the ACTUAL pressures generated by 9Mjor shooters. For example: One shooter here on be.com actually reported loading out to 1.200" OAL w/ a 124 grn JHP. And many shooters report PF in the 167 to 169PF range. One would expect such a load (given a slower burning powder) to generate very reasonable pressure - probably within SAAMI 9mm +p specs. I see no reason to throw away cases after one firing of a load like that and I personaly reload my 9major cases 3 or 4 times - though by then I usually loose them. On the other hand, there are several reports of shooters using 115 grn bullets. Also, many USPSA shooters do not feel comfortable with any power factor under 170 or even 175 (how often have we heard "can't be too careful!" when someone on the squad registers a 175+ at the chrono stage?). Keep in mind that the old P-9s had to EXCEED 175PF (often running up to 180+ PF) and they were limited by the small frame of the P-9 to an OAL of 1.160" or less. Ask the 9x21 veterans if they threw out their rare cases after one firing. The 9x21 case is not stronger than a quality 9x19mm case. However, until someone pays the $$$ to pressure test ammo, we will not know the actual range of pressures generated. Edited March 12, 2007 by Carlos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSMITH Posted March 13, 2007 Share Posted March 13, 2007 LOL, Carlos I am running 115's at 1.195", and doing so at 174+ PF with my major 9. I guess I fit the bill on all counts!! I can't even get the edges of a Federal Small Pistol Primer to flatten out, they stat nice and round. These are the loads I said I had 6 loadings on, they just don't beat the cases up because the pressures aren't high. I see much more primer flattening on some factory standard pressure 9mm ammo than I do with my major 9 loads. My barrel setup is a little different than what you normally see, and that helps with pressure too. The SV guys at the table at a major match mentioned some pressure testing they had done for major 9 ammo and they weren't favorable to it at all. That said they didn't test my gun with my ammo. Unless they fix a strain gauge to my barrel or cut their pressure barrel to my specs I don't see the value of pressure testing. A minimum everything pressure barrel is the worst possible circumstances and I am quite sure my ammo would not fare well in those circumstances, but then again I am not in those circumstances....... Read your primers, measure your cases, and make the decision you are comfortable with. That is the best advise I can think of for a potential 9mm major shooter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlos Posted March 13, 2007 Share Posted March 13, 2007 LOL, Carlos I am running 115's at 1.195", and doing so at 174+ PF with my major 9. Which brings up another point in favor of 9Major: now that the PF is down to 165+, is there really that big of a pressure difference between a 9mm Major load at your (close to) 1.200" OAL and the .38 SuperComp loads I used to run in my SV at 1.230" OAL? (besides the obvious .030"). BTW - I am not knocking the guys choosing to run 115s - I am just trying to illustrate both ends of the pressure spectrum in 9major. I think 9major has proven to be more pressure tolerant than many folks would have guessed back when the BOD dropped the ban. I think if you search out 9 major case failures here on be.com you will find exactly TWO failed cases so far, and I own one of the two failed cases (which failed due to a weak case that was probably loaded a dozen times). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfinney Posted March 13, 2007 Share Posted March 13, 2007 I have been told not to reload the 9 since it's so hard on the brass, so 1 shot and it's done and from what I undestand you can get 6-12 or more out of 38sc. If you're really going to compare prices, compare the cost per piece of brass, and assumed its lost after fired just once. Because thats also one of the big advanatges of 9Major, not having to pick up your brass. Besides, most major matches are lost brass matches anyway. Apples to Apples. But if you are going to pick up your brass religously, regardless, your cost benefit of 9mm does decrease dramatically. At that point why not shoot Super? Pick one that you are comfortable with and stick with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L9X25 Posted March 13, 2007 Share Posted March 13, 2007 (edited) My barrel setup is a little different than what you normally see, and that helps with pressure too. Remember ... this is a sharing forum! Tell the secrets that reduce your pressures beyond those of the other 9mm guys. More freebore? Edited March 13, 2007 by L9X25 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgary Posted March 13, 2007 Share Posted March 13, 2007 (edited) If you're really going to compare prices, compare the cost per piece of brass, and assumed its lost after fired just once. Because thats also one of the big advanatges of 9Major, not having to pick up your brass. +1 I used to buy cases of Supercomp at approx $100-110/k shipped. I found that I was able to recover about 60-70% of my brass from the range floor, on average, which means that after 6 matches my 1000 pieces would be 90% gone. And there are no viable/dependable sources of "once fired Supercomp" So, I did the math on switching to Major 9. I figure if I can get 7x the brass for the same cost (eg, 7000 pieces for the cost of 1000 Supercomp), I'm at a break-even point. So, back when I could get clean, once-fired Winchester commercial 9mm for under $15/k, it was a no-brainer. Plus the "bonus" of being able to concentrate on the competition, rather than on constantly scanning the range floor for one of my lost sheep. Now that clean, once-fired Winchester commercial 9mm is pushing $30/k, the economics are less clear-cut. At Starline's current list price of $125/k for Supercomp, vs. brassman's current list of $32/k for same-headstamp once-fired brass, the leverage on Major-9 is down to about 4x. It is *almost* getting to the point where it is worth my time to mark my 9mm brass and hunt for it, like I used to do with Supercomp... which makes me question whether there is still an advantage from a purely *economic* standpoint. As far as the other issues, there's no difference between them as far as I am concerned. 9mm is no harder to load than Supercomp, it feeds and runs perfectly in my guns and mags (thanks to JPL Precision!), and I have no pressure signs at all, using Silhouette under a Montana Gold 124JHP. In other words, there's nothing to separate them, from my perspective, *except* for economics... $.02 (no pun intended) Bruce Edited March 14, 2007 by bgary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSMITH Posted March 13, 2007 Share Posted March 13, 2007 Leo, yes that is the basic gist of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.40AET Posted March 14, 2007 Share Posted March 14, 2007 Leo, yes that is the basic gist of it. Quit with the smoke and mirrors already. How much???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe4d Posted March 14, 2007 Share Posted March 14, 2007 I think it comes down to most shooters shoot at places lots of shooters who arnt USPSA shooters shoot many of them 9mm shooters who leave thier brass. So with a little effort 9mm brass cost is basically zero. When I was an IDPA shooter I switched from .40 to 9 for this reason. I was worriing about picking up brass instead of the next stage and still had to buy brass. After going to 9mm I could go to the brass can at back of range and grab a couple coffee cans of brass and sort it at home. 9mm and .40 I kept other stuff got bagged and left at club with free to good home sign. Fortunatly life is good now as I married into all the .40 brass I could want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
granderojo Posted March 14, 2007 Share Posted March 14, 2007 Leo, yes that is the basic gist of it. Would you mind sharing what powder mfg/type & amount? I'm new to 9mm open & could use all the help I can get. Thanks Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turtle Posted March 14, 2007 Share Posted March 14, 2007 Try under the reloading forum> http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=12740 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSMITH Posted March 14, 2007 Share Posted March 14, 2007 40aet, a quarter inch. bigred, the thread Turtle linked in his post has my data in it as well as a tremendous amount of data from others. Don't try to print it unless you can do it at work, this I know LOL. So far I am liking Silhouette the best but have a hard time getting it locally, Longshot is really nice too and it is stocked everywhere so that is what I have been shooting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.40AET Posted March 15, 2007 Share Posted March 15, 2007 40aet, a quarter inch. Thank you! I don't have that much, but I can tell the difference when comparing the same load in my gun and one without any freebore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IPSCDRL Posted March 15, 2007 Share Posted March 15, 2007 A shooting buddy of mine is currently running 9mm major out of his Glock with 125's and likes it. Last night at practice, I was shooting my Caspian .38 Super open gun so I asked him if I could try some of his loads. He went to hand me his Glock mag but I just took a few rounds. I loaded them into my Caspian mag and ripped through them. They felt a little milder than my Super loads. It convinced me to try the lighted 125 grain bullets as I am still running a 135 grain Zero. It also proved that my Caspian will feed just about anything that's ~ 9mm. It will run with a mix of Super, Super Comp, .38 T&J, etc. Even the odd 9X21 that gets through my press will feed and function. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDBraddy Posted March 26, 2007 Share Posted March 26, 2007 I'm shooting a Caspian in .38 Super-Comp, I've tried running 9mm factory ammo through it, as well as .38 Super, .38 Super+P, TJ, even 9X23, and so farr it eats everything I've fed it. Currently, I'm loading Zero 124 FMJ's, on 8.7gr True Blue, with Winchester small pistol primers, and getting 1350-1360fps on average, and notice the primers are being flattened. Perhapse some of you would be good enough to share some of the recepies for these majical 9mm Major loads, that are sufficiently low pressure, that they don't flatten primers. I'd like to try loading some, and running them through my gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.40AET Posted March 26, 2007 Share Posted March 26, 2007 It's a shame that True Blue has pressure problems. It's very dense and easy to reload to major. However, the pressure was a problem. Perhapse some of you would be good enough to share some of the recepies for these majical 9mm Major loads What powder do you have on hand? I'm sure that there is a decent load in 9mm that you could use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSMITH Posted March 26, 2007 Share Posted March 26, 2007 JDB, my load data with several powders is in the 9mm major load data thread. Currently running 8.1 Longshot, 115 Zero, 1.195". Federal small pistol primer. This is about 175 out of my gunm a little more than I need but it works the comp a little better than 170 does with the same powder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmd45 Posted March 26, 2007 Share Posted March 26, 2007 Sorry,a little off topic but if you load 9mm long is it safe to shoot out of a .38SC gun? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singlestack Posted March 26, 2007 Share Posted March 26, 2007 Sorry,a little off topic but if you load 9mm long is it safe to shoot out of a .38SC gun? I would not do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl Posted March 26, 2007 Share Posted March 26, 2007 Sorry,a little off topic but if you load 9mm long is it safe to shoot out of a .38SC gun? I would not do it. Listen to Singlestack! It will not headspace properly. It'll be "hanging" on the Extractor and not properly seating on it's case mouth. Potentially an issue. I would not do it either! Carl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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