9mm Major Vs. .38 Super Comp

[JRD83]

I'm familiar with the 9mm Major, but not .38 Super Comp. I'm looking at buying my first open gun, and I got some suggestions to go with .38 SC, can some give me a comparison of these two rounds, and where would I get brass for the .38 SC? And also dies.

[ogiebb]

I'm familiar with the 9mm Major, but not .38 Super Comp. I'm looking at buying my first open gun, and I got some suggestions to go with .38 SC, can some give me a comparison of these two rounds, and where would I get brass for the .38 SC? And also dies.

38 sc is rimless 38super they say because of this you can probably squeeze in and extra round on a big stick because the base is narrower than a 9mm case...if you got the extra dough or if its ok with you to pick up brass after each match go with 38 sc there are tons of load data about them..im sticking with a 9mm major because of the cost of brass...you can get 38 sc brass from starline or armscor...

[DrawandDuck]

Super comp is basically a rimless version of .38 super. MAIN reason people are shooting 9mm is the CHEAP Brass. You can get once fired 9mm for around 2 cents each and you mainly have to buy NEW .38 Super/Supercomp for approx. .11 cents. I shoot .38 super for the ease of LOADING and reliability.

Randal

[shred]

Lots of info on this topic available in a search, but the main tradeoff is cheap brass versus loading flexibility and lower pressures. Reliability of supers is pretty much a given these days, while not everybody's figured out the 9's yet.

[Chris Keen]

Brass can be found at www.MidwayUSA.com or www.brassmanbrass.com or many other on-line sources. Try a google search for NEW BRASS. I wouldnt shoot once-fired in an open gun because you can't be sure the brass is truly once-fired.

Edited February 28, 2007 by CHRIS KEEN

[al503]

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?...supercomp+brass Edited February 28, 2007 by al503

[GentlemanJim]

I like 9 major for the same reasons cheap brass.

Just for testing I have loaded 168 pf loads in once fired brass 5 or 6 loadings before seeing any trouble with the brass.

I shoot range brass for local matches and practice, new brass for big matches.

However 38 super is known to be more reliable.

my 2c

Jim

[XRe]

Supercomp was originally developed to fix nosedive issues w/ the semi-rimmed .38 Super case. It worked like a champ. 9mm doesn't have that issue, of course, because its already rimless. The shorter OAL of the 9mm cartridge seems to require some difference in setup, in some cases, vs. .38 Supercomp.

There's a lot of threads on the forums detailing differences, loads, etc. Personally, I still have concerns over loading unknown brass to Major PF in 9mm, but if you institute a strict quality control process on your brass that you buy, it probably isn't a problem. With the right powder selection, 9mm Major is certainly safe, though you are perhaps a bit more limited on powder selection than you are in Super-ish calibers.

I don't mind picking brass, myself... and I've found Supercomp brass to be exceptionally sturdy (12+ reloadings....). So, for now, I'm sticking with what I know works for me...

[JRD83]

So if I went with a regular .38 Super, would I be at a big disadvantage compared to the 9mm major, or the .38 SC? I want to stay competitive, but I dont want to get in over my head while just starting out. I've been researching the 9mm Major, and I think I would be pretty nervous loading those up to start, but .38 Super doesnt worry me much.

[Azone41]

I have both a super and a 9mm open gun and they are both great guns. I haven't shot the 9mm very much but I have a HS-6 load @ 168 PF that I am going to shoot at Doubletap. Lots of people will tell you about the cheap brass thing but if you only load a 9mm to major once and leave it lay the brass cost is about the same as picking up super or super comp. Super brass will last almost forever most people lose it before it wears out.

[al503]

So if I went with a regular .38 Super, would I be at a big disadvantage compared to the 9mm major, or the .38 SC? I want to stay competitive, but I dont want to get in over my head while just starting out. I've been researching the 9mm Major, and I think I would be pretty nervous loading those up to start, but .38 Super doesnt worry me much.

You've gotten real good advice above so far. You might get one less round in a 170mm mag with the super v. supercomp or 9mm. Will that make a difference? Not often but I shot a stage a couple of weeks ago where the round count was 30. I loaded up my big stick with 29 and had one in the chamber. No reload required. If I was shooting super, then I might have had to have made a reload.

As Dave mentioned above, powder selection is key. I've tried several in 9 and the only one I really feel confident about in terms of pressure is vectan SP2 and if not SP2, 3n38, possibly. Unfortunately, it has been discontinued and cannot be had unless you find someone with it. I been told that its as slow as n105 (which is about the slowest powder USPSA/IPSC shooters use) but much denser so you don't have to worry about compressed loads and the possible negatives associated with that. I have loaded SP2 to 175 pf without a single sign of pressure. Every other powder I've tried has shown pressure signs between 155-165 pf with 3n38 at the upper end of that range.

Edited March 1, 2007 by al503

[XRe]

I'd highly recommend thinking about Supercomp over Super. The load recipes are almost identical (slightly less powder in Supercomp due to thicker case web and walls), but you gain quite a bit in reliability margin. More tolerance to worn springs, dirty gun, etc.

Of course, some folks run Super just fine... You save about $20/K on brass w/ Super. But, again... I'm sticking with what works for me

[DrawandDuck]

My Benny Blaster runs both equally well....38 Super and .38 Supercomp without any modifications. I am using an Aftec Extractor. I get the same number of rounds using either one. .38 Super is cheaper than .38 Supercomp/rimless.

Randal

[Carlos]

Does 9mm Major work? See your latest copy of Frontsight re: stats from last Nationals ( -a lost brass match, BTW).

In many areas, we don't pick brass anymore. You might consider local custom in deciding.

After owning both, my preference would be:

1) 9mm Major

2) .38 supercomp/rimless .38 Super/.38 TJ/ .38 Lapua/ 9mm supercomp(which is slightly tapered but loads & works fine - as does 9x23 w/ slightly reduced charge).

3) old fashioned .38 super

BTW - if your chosen gunsmith says to you: "9mm Major doesn't work." you can translate that as him ACTUALLY saying "I don't understand how to build a reliable 9mm Major" - though obviously others do understand & have built successful 9major guns.

[BSeevers]

I like old school 38 Super.

Edited March 1, 2007 by BSeevers

[Bear23]

I just ordered my new Open gun in 38 super. The smith i chose steered me away from 9 major for a variety of reasons. 38 super or super comp is a good choice. Much more flexibility in the powders you can use or try.

[Alan Meek]

Bear23,

Not ot thread drift but I would be interested in hearing the reasons the smith gave to steer you away from Major 9

Alan

[Adam B]

Bear23,

Not ot thread drift but I would be interested in hearing the reasons the smith gave to steer you away from Major 9

Alan

me too, I have great success with Major 9! Ususally when a smith "steers you away" it really means that they cant figure out how to get it to run correctly. I had a stock TruBor in Major 9 that ran like a top, if the STI factory can make one run I believe that anyone can!

[al503]

I think we should make a differentiation between a smith who steers you away because they 'can't figure it out' v. a smith that steers you away for other reasons (pressure concerns probably being one of the major ones.)

[old john]

Al, I have two of each almost. 2 are 9mm major and two are 38 super. the supers run on either SC or Super. I actually think the super makes the most sense because you have more choices of powder. That said I am trying to sale either pair, stop taking up safe space and be happy with just two. I also had problems with once fired 9mm so I shoot almost all new brass and there just isn't enough cost differance to sway a choice. Old John

[HSMITH]

I have 5 powders to major in 9mm with no pressure signs at all using Federal pistol primers. 3n-37, Silhouette, Longshot, Power Pistol, and HS-6. I have more to test, three more powders should make it and 2 more still should if I can get enough in the case.

My guess would be that the guys having a hard time loading 9mm without pressure signs are loading short ~1.150" or so and have barrels with short leades. The short leade is probably more responsible than the short loads IMO.

[smokshwn]

I have made major in 9mm with RS True Blue, RS Silhouette, Power Pistol, 3n37, 3n38 and I know others have made major with HS6, HS7, SP2, Longshot, n350, 7625 and maybe a couple of others.

The point is, choose whichever cartridge you like. But the arguement that 9mm somehow restricts your powder choices is a little specious. If you can't find a load you like with 11 powders and two bullet weights I can guarantee you it ain't the gun or the cartridge.

[eric nielsen]

There's a lot of good information here already. As far as "steering", I don't look at it as a knock on the gunsmith or the 9x19Major cartridge. More like some gunbuilders realize that if they have 100 Supercomp customers, and 100 9Major customers, a lot more of the 9-buyers are going to tinker or make small mistakes in ammo or spring set-up & their new gun chokes. More room for error with Super and Supercomp.

I've had 3 of the very best race-gun-smiths in the country gently "steer" me just like that.

I had good results loading 9Major with HS6, SP2, 3n37, 3n38, and Power Pistol.

FWIW, Super guns will feed out of the mag 99.99999% of the time if you just load each round into the very back of the mag. That puts the semi-rim of one round into the neck area of the round below it.

Real easy to do with hollowpoint bullets - just push the top round all the way back; 2nd-to-top round can be pushed back with your thumbnail or the next round in your hand, as long as your mags have a little bit of cut-away [like Dawson-tuned mags]. Then slap the whole mag on its back when it's full.

Edited March 2, 2007 by eric nielsen

[Bear23]

Bear23,

Not ot thread drift but I would be interested in hearing the reasons the smith gave to steer you away from Major 9

Alan

Alan,

I don't want to give his name out, he is a well respected smith who posts on this forum quite a bit...

a few reasons:

1. pressure in the 9mm, he only advised new brass being used for a major 9 and not reusing it...there go your cost savings.

2. ejection, the 9 case being shorters tends to spin more upon ejection and causes more stovepipes, etc.

3. magazine reliability. I've got a bunch of mags that i currently run for super and i'd have to get them converted for 9mm, more $$$$$.

Now that being said, a good friend has one of his shortys in 9mm that runs, runs and runs. He did have an extractor issue awhile back with his aftec springs weakening, but fixed easily with new springs.

Edited March 6, 2007 by Bear23

[Alan Meek]

Bear23,

Not ot thread drift but I would be interested in hearing the reasons the smith gave to steer you away from Major 9

Alan

Alan,

I don't want to give his name out, he is a well respected smith who posts on this forum quite a bit...

a few reasons:

1. pressure in the 9mm, he only advised new brass being used for a major 9 and not reusing it...there go your cost savings.

2. ejection, the 9 case being shorters tends to spin more upon ejection and causes more stovepipes, etc.

3. magazine reliability. I've got a bunch of mags that i currently run for super and i'd have to get them converted for 9mm, more $$$$$.

Bear23,

Thanks, I am mostly interested in the reasons given that he used to steer you away.

Reason #1. We heard the same reason years ago only it was the 38Super that was exceeding the pressure. Back in the early 90's we were loading 9 Major to a 180 PF. We have since dropped the PF. We are now loading down to a 170 area. In my not so educated physics, does it not take the same amount of energy (which equates to similar pressure) to move a 124gr .355 bullet at 1370 fps? I do acknowledge that the powders you would use to load 38 Super may not give you the same results if you used them in a 9mm case. Shorter OAL does mean that you need to adjust your load and depending on the length of the barrel you may need a faster burning powder to achieve the velocity you want.

Reason #2. Yes it is a little more difficult to get the ejection figured out. But if you use an Extra long Ejector and tune it properly along with an extractor that gets good contact with the case rim there is no issue ejecting the case.

Reason #3. If you have an abundance of 38 Super mags and you do not want to spend any additional dollars to get the mags running reliable actaully makes the most sense of the three reasons.

As far as using new 9mm brass, almost everyone I know is using once-fired 9mm brass. I have also gotten 4-5 reloads out of the once fired brass loading at a 170 PF.

Alan