Airline Travel With Guns

[kmitchl]

I'm flying to a match this weekend so went to buy a piece of hard sided luggage for my guns. What I found was that almost all of the luggage sold today with a lock has a TSA lock. As I understand this allows you to lock your luggage but TSA has a master key to open if needed. I thought the declaration we have to sign that goes into the locked case certifies that I am the only person with the key/combination to the lock. This seems to conflict with the TSA lock. Anyone know the particulars of this?

Keith

[Matt Cheely]

Get a seperate hard case with a lock only you can get into. Place this into your checked luggage and you shouldn't have a problem.

[DrawandDuck]

Lets say your luggage is locked and ONLY you have the key. If somthing looks "funny" to them and they choose to inspect your luggage they will "cut" the locks off. By using a TSA lock it allows the TSA agent to unlock and inspect then lock back for the flight. This is the way it was explained to me.

Randal

[uscbigdawg]

Lets say your luggage is locked and ONLY you have the key. If somthing looks "funny" to them and they choose to inspect your luggage they will "cut" the locks off. By using a TSA lock it allows the TSA agent to unlock and inspect then lock back for the flight. This is the way it was explained to me.

Randal

Randal,

Since 9/11 more guns have been stolen than before 9/11 in any equivalent time frame. TSA locks are means to which YOU WILL GET YOUR GUNS STOLEN. When you fly with your guns, TSA will inspect the case, both my x-ray and hand inspection before it goes into the "sterile" section of the airport. You are a citizen of the United States and as such, inspite of ANY mythically powered TSA/Homeland Security regulations are still Constitutionally protected under the 4th Amendment for illegeal search and seizure (hopefully that's the right one...I'm tired). If they "need" to open your bags, they can page you and you can visually inspect the search. Probably cause has nothing to do with compromising your rights as a US citizen.

That said, this topic has been discussed a number of times. Do a search and you'll find what you're looking for. In the interest of time, follow Matt's advice as I've done this for years and have had ZERO issues in flying with my guns. Just make sure gun and ammo are seperate. When traveling airlines that I'd recommend (in order) are Southwest (THE BEST!), Continental and Delta (about a tie). After that, American is okay as it just depends on who ya get.

Rich

[shred]

Like is posted in more detail elsewhere (did we ever make a FAQ?), for pistols, get a hard-case, and lock that with a good lock inside your outer luggage which you lock with the cheezy TSA lock. Put a big card that says "Call {your cell #} before opening this case!" on the inner case.

[kmitchl]

Thanks to all who contributed. As always, locks are meant to keep honest people honest. Those who wish to steal will find a way.

I'm flying out of Houston. Depending on your perspective it may be more secure or less secure. Recently HPD arrested five working in the secured area that were stealing luggage. They found in excess of sixty suitcases that had been stolen. They got caught because someone found the luggage in a dumpster and alerted the cops. That may mean they solved the problem and caught the bad guys or it may mean there are more bad guys still in there.

Keith

[DrawandDuck]

I use the pelican 1550 in BRIGHT ORANGE...a fairly Large case and I use locks with 1/4"shanks.....It is large enough that I can carry the gun, mags, repair kit/tools and 400 rnds of ammo in an air tight, water tight fairly crush proof case (every watch those guys load/unload luggage ). I agree SOUTHWEST is the best airline to travel with firearms!! I guess you could look at it either way....As great protection for your investmet OR WOW STEAL ME!! But it is not something they can just throw under their coat or stuff down their baggy pants and walk out with!! I ALWAYS PURCHASE ADDITIONAL INSURANCE, I INSURE FOR 5K.

Just my thoughts

Randal

[edwin garcia]

I use the pelican 1550 in BRIGHT ORANGE...a fairly Large case and I use locks with 1/4"shanks.....It is large enough that I can carry the gun, mags, repair kit/tools and 400 rnds of ammo in an air tight, water tight fairly crush proof case (every watch those guys load/unload luggage ). I agree SOUTHWEST is the best airline to travel with firearms!! I guess you could look at it either way....As great protection for your investmet OR WOW STEAL ME!! But it is not something they can just throw under their coat or stuff down their baggy pants and walk out with!! I ALWAYS PURCHASE ADDITIONAL INSURANCE, I INSURE FOR 5K.

Just my thoughts

Randal

Do airlines offer insurance for luggages? Or are you referring to personal property insurance.

Thanks in advance!

[BigDave]

From Southwest

Firearms must be encased in a hard-sided, LOCKED container that is of sufficient strength to withstand normal handling, as follows:

1. A firearm in a hard-sided, locked container may be placed inside a soft-sided, unlocked suitcase.

2. A firearm placed inside a hard-sided, locked suitcase does not have to be encased in a container manufactured for the transportation of firearms.

3. Only the Customer checking the luggage should retain the key or combination to the lock. No exceptions will be made

From TSA

* You must declare all firearms to the airline during the ticket counter check-in process.

* The firearm must be unloaded.

* The firearm must be in a hard-sided container.

* The container must be locked.

* We recommend that you provide the key or combination to the security officer if he or she needs to open the container. You should remain present during screening to take the key back after the container is cleared. If you are not present and the security officer must open the container, we or the airline will make a reasonable attempt to contact you. If we can’t contact you, the container will not be placed on the plane. Federal regulations prohibit unlocked gun cases (or cases with broken locks) on aircraft.

* You must securely pack any ammunition in fiber (such as cardboard), wood or metal boxes or other packaging that is specifically designed to carry small amounts of ammunition.

* You can’t use firearm magazines/clips for packing ammunition unless they completely and securely enclose the ammunition (e.g., by securely covering the exposed portions of the magazine or by securely placing the magazine in a pouch, holder, holster or lanyard).

* You may carry the ammunition in the same hard-sided case as the firearm, as long as you pack it as described above.

* You can’t bring black powder or percussion caps used with black-powder type firearms in either your carry-on or checked baggage.

I tape a copy of the TSA regs and my cell phone numbers to the case telling them that I have checked into the airport 2 hrs early (I do) and that I have the key.

[CDRODA396]

I tape a copy of the TSA regs and my cell phone numbers to the case telling them that I have checked into the airport 2 hrs early (I do) and that I have the key.

This is the only way I fly!

[Rob Boudrie]

I use the pelican 1550 in BRIGHT ORANGE...a fairly Large case and I use locks with 1/4"shanks.....

The case and lock are identical to my setup except I have the yellow one. The downside is that the case screams "interesting", but the upside is it less likely to be picked up by mistake. I once caught someone in the Toronto airport walking off with my gun case which, at the time, was a very generic briefcase that he probably mistook for one of the 50 or so pieces of luggage he was collecting for his group (no, I don't think this 70 year old Chineese guy was trying to steal my gun, but I still came very close to losing it). I doubt that mistake would have happened with my yellow Pelican. Besides, these cases are used as Stargate props so they definitely have the cool factor.

Most airports have the screening area where you can wait while they check the baggage, so you can give them the key directly. Airports that don't will very often let you meet the TSA luggage person at another area (in Boston, it's the "Oversized baggage screening area"). I always carry an extra key to the case - that way I just ask the TSA agent to throw it in the bag when done (useful in the rare occasion the baggage screening is in the bowels of the airport and they can't easily hand you the key).

There is no rule requiring that gun and ammo be in separate cases, however, I have found that it is much easier to pack that way than to re-educate the occasional TSA staffer who think's that such a regulation exists.

I also have a stranded metal cable that I use to lock the case to a fixed object in the hotel room, as well as the interior of the rental car trunk. The Pelican case isn't exactly high security, but it's enough to prevent a quick grab.

[uscbigdawg]

There is no rule requiring that gun and ammo be in separate cases, however, I have found that it is much easier to pack that way than to re-educate the occasional TSA staffer who think's that such a regulation exists.

Southwest Airlines requires it and since it's their plane they can do it.

Rich

[DrawandDuck]

Do airlines offer insurance for luggages? Or are you referring to personal property insurance.

Thanks in advance!

From Southwest's policies

-Liability: Unless excess value is declared and charges paid at the time of checkin, Southwest Airlines' liability for lost, damaged or delayed baggage is limited to $2,800.00 per fare-paying Customer.

Rich, Southwest must have changed their policy...I packed my ammo and pistol in the same pelican case when I flew down to the FL open last year. I pulled this off their website tonight;

Ammunition

-Small arms ammunition for personal use (provided it is properly packed) is permissible in checked baggage only.

--The ammunition may be placed in the same container as the firearm and must be securely packed in cardboard (fiber), wood, or metal boxes, or other packaging specifically designed to carry small amounts of ammunition.

When checking ammunition, Customers are limited to 11 pounds gross weight (ammunition plus container) per person.

[G-ManBart]

[

Randal,

You are a citizen of the United States and as such, inspite of ANY mythically powered TSA/Homeland Security regulations are still Constitutionally protected under the 4th Amendment for illegeal search and seizure (hopefully that's the right one...I'm tired). If they "need" to open your bags, they can page you and you can visually inspect the search. Probably cause has nothing to do with compromising your rights as a US citizen.

Rich

I only mention this so that someone doesn't read it and then wind up in a confrontation at the airport

The 4th Amendment reference doesn't apply in the case of an airport. The short version is that it's not an illegal search because by entering the airport, you're consenting to a search. I've never paid attention because it's never made any difference to me, but I'll bet they have signs posted stating something like that. Also, they can open your bags without you present, but they try to avoid it so that people don't get too mad.

Regardless of the above, I totally agree about the risks of losing weapons at airports...a good lock goes a long way and I wouldn't trust the TSA lock alone with any of my guns.

If anyone runs into an "issue" with TSA folks and think something isn't right, politely ask if they can call a supervisor. Nine times out of ten that solves the problem!

[KAL]

I have to fly down to KY this weekend and will be returning with a AR rifle. After reading this I don't know which is safer. Take it back on the plane or just ship it home to myself. It is my rifle and is registered in my name already. What would you guys do?

[bgary]

The short version is that it's not an illegal search because by entering the airport, you're consenting to a search.

That, and... they contend that you do not have a "constitutional right" to get on an airplane. So, they believe that they have authority to search you before you get on a plane, and if you decline, no harm, no foul, they'll let you walk away... you just don't get to get on the plane.

Bruce

[IPSCDRL]

I have to fly down to KY this weekend and will be returning with a AR rifle. After reading this I don't know which is safer. Take it back on the plane or just ship it home to myself. It is my rifle and is registered in my name already. What would you guys do?

Shipping it would probably be easier.

[Nemo]

It is always stressful but I've never had a problem, even flying OCONUS.

A good lockable hard-side case, good locks and faith. When you get to the other side it will come out that hole on the wall riding the conveyor.

Good luck!

[uscbigdawg]

D&D - Yeah...sounds like a change. Cool. Makes things simpler. Also, you can buy additional insurance at the terminal desk if what you're flying with exceeds their "basic" insurance policy. Too, my homeowner's insurance covers it when I fly too.

GMB - My point is not to deny the search rather to say that you have the right to be present for the search (absolutely true). Like others, I apply a sticker to my cases stating that if you want to look in this bag, give me a call and I'll unlock it for you.

Bruce - I never said I had a right to get on the plane and know it (too much family in the aviation industry to not know). If there's a search issue (which the only one I've had was at the security check point not with TSA and my guns) then I just won't go on that flight. Simple enough.

KAL - Locked case, you'll be fine.

Like others I've flown a ton with my guns and not had an issue. Again, by and large I try to stick to specific airlines and that alone is a great comfort. Be smart, know your stuff and THEIR policy and you'll be good to go.

Rich

[XRe]

Let me resurrect this one briefly....

Does anyone have a concise list of airlines and their relative ease of travel w/ firearms - or, put another way, how "gun friendly" are they? Heading to the Open Nats this year, I'm highly tempted to fly Southwest into Spokane, and just drive down. However, my wife might be joining me for a few days after the match and would likely fly into Missoula - it would be nice to fly back together. We could one way her into Missoula, and then one way back out from somewhere else. Kind of a pain, but...

I know United isn't so hot - they're about all that flys from Austin to Missoula w/o switching airlines. Which other airlines are worth looking at? Which ones to stay the heck away from???

[shred]

D&D - Yeah...sounds like a change. Cool. Makes things simpler. Also, you can buy additional insurance at the terminal desk if what you're flying with exceeds their "basic" insurance policy. Too, my homeowner's insurance covers it when I fly too.

You'll want to read the fine-print carefully. Most of the time guns and 'valuables' aren't covered by the airline insurance (WTF is the insurance for then?? non-valuable stuff?)

Does anyone have a concise list of airlines and their relative ease of travel w/ firearms - or, put another way, how "gun friendly" are they? Heading to the Open Nats this year, I'm highly tempted to fly Southwest into Spokane, and just drive down. However, my wife might be joining me for a few days after the match and would likely fly into Missoula - it would be nice to fly back together. We could one way her into Missoula, and then one way back out from somewhere else. Kind of a pain, but...

I know United isn't so hot - they're about all that flys from Austin to Missoula w/o switching airlines. Which other airlines are worth looking at? Which ones to stay the heck away from???

Alaska is good (50 lbs of ammo!). Most of the US carriers are about the same and your experience depends heavily on the counter agent (know the regs and be polite). Some of the non-US international carriers suck (one refused to carry ammo to Panama unless it was in a metal container, no TSA regs or personnel could convince them otherwise).

I try for the most-direct flights I can get to minimize the chances for bag loss, and if I have to stopover, try to keep that fairly short to minimize bag sitting-around-in-the-bowels-of-the-airport time.

[XRe]

Alaska is good (50 lbs of ammo!).

Even Alaska doesn't get us between Austin and Missoula w/o switching airlines, unfortunately... In fact, United is the only one....

[dfwmiket]

Dave,

You could always hitch a ride with Mark and Tracey!

[uscbigdawg]

Dave,

You could just ship your guns and ammo to Montana and then just fly direct. Other than that, if I have a choice, I fly with my gun and then ship the ammo. I did that for the '04 GA State. Flew with my gun and like 300 rounds. Shipped another 300-400 to the match staff.

Other than that, honestly you should be "okay" on United.

Rich

[XRe]

Just that United was who lost Burkett's guns for a week... And they're who was implicated in all the crap in Chicago w/ guns being stolen and whatnot...

I'll be shipping the bulk of my ammo - that worked great for the FL Open.

Man, Southwest rules for flying w/ guns.... 3 checked bags and all that... I hate that they don't fly to Missoula