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Seeing Double With Both Eyes Open


Chris Conley

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Next time you go get your oil changed you ask you Lube Pro guy if you can have a few extra stickers they put in your window. You can also keep the one that is expired. There is a nice white patch there you can cut down to size and use. ;)

They stay in place well and do not have any sticky crap to deal with.

Edited by JThompson
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Can you wear the tape on your glasses over one eye during a match. Sorry if this may sound stupid, I have never seen anyone do that.

Chris C.

Here is my routine: I carry the tape stuck to my 'barney' mag usually. At load and make ready, I first put the tape across the lens of my non dominant eye, then load up and am ready to go. When I fire the last shot, after unload and show clear, I pull tape back off and stick it either to my shirt or to a mag pouch. It's not a big deal all in all. Some people just have two pair of shooting glasses, one taped and one not, and just switch them when it's their turn to shoot. You've got a couple of options. Hope that helps.

-Mike

Yeah I use two pairs of shooting glasses.Works great

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Hhhmmm... Reading this thread again has me thinking. I have 59 year old eyes, with some astigmatism, and am cross eye dominant. IOW, everything is blurry and doubled to some extent - even with one eye closed.

I've tried the tape on the lens and found it to be such a distraction that I couldn't deal with it. But it just occurred to me that being right handed, I have always tried the tape on my left lens. I've never tried it over my right eye. Time for a new experiment!

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I guess I'm really lucky, but I'm cross dominant, shoot with both eyes open, and have never hand a problem with any sort of doubling. That may have something to do with the fact that my right eye is much weaker than my left, so it's easier for my brain to figure out which set of signals to ignore.

Also, this may sound strange, but when I was first learning to shoot, I used a mental trick that I thought of as "pouring energy through my shooting eye." Just consciously pour this (what I used to think of it as) "power river" through my master eye. I could feel this happen. Don't know if it will help anyone else, but it helped me.

This was before I understood about shooting with both eyes open. I used to slightly squint the non-dominant eye. But I don't doubt this "power rivering" of my master eye eventually made it much easier for me to start shooting with both eyes open than it is for many people. I just simply started doing it. A couple of shooting sessions, a bit of dry fire and it was a habit, no big deal.

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I have been trying for 25 years to shoot with both eyes open. I have tried every trick in the book- including tape, frosted lenses, blinders on my hat- you name it. I finally quit worrying about it and close my left eye. You can open and close your eyes pretty quickly, so peripheral vision has never been affected. Except for the time that I am actively on target, both eyes are open. My left eye closes when the gun comes in line with my vision while pointing in and opens the instant that the last shot on the target breaks.

I even close one eye on Skeet and Trap. My coach used to give me grief until I got a 250 patch in Trap - then all he could say is "well it works for you".

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OR SWITCH TO OPEN :D:D:D I had the same left eye dominant/right handed double vision issue when shooting limited...tried my buddies open gun one day and with both eyes open only saw one dot.....COOL.....I have never looked back!!

Edited by DrawandDuck
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  • 2 weeks later...

This thread is stunning to me. Last night for the first time I experienced some double vision while shooting a steel match. I shot the rest of the match with my left I closed. Now my left eye is a "lazy eye". Some of you in your forties may be familiar with the "lazy eye" or Ambliopia. Not sure about the spelling. My right eye is dominant and has perfect vision. The left is the lazy eye and quite fuzzy. I wore glasses to strengthen my lazy eye and a patch over my good eye when I was a kid for years.

I will try the tape deal over my left eye though it must be opaque. It's already fuzzy and the double vision shows me a clear image and a fuzzy one. Very distracting indeed. It made my head swim.

I feel so much better after reading your postings. Last night was very disconcerting, I thought it was just me and my lazy eye.

Thanks so much.

Rick

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This thread is stunning to me. Last night for the first time I experienced some double vision while shooting a steel match. I shot the rest of the match with my left I closed. Now my left eye is a "lazy eye". Some of you in your forties may be familiar with the "lazy eye" or Ambliopia. Not sure about the spelling. My right eye is dominant and has perfect vision. The left is the lazy eye and quite fuzzy. I wore glasses to strengthen my lazy eye and a patch over my good eye when I was a kid for years.

I will try the tape deal over my left eye though it must be opaque. It's already fuzzy and the double vision shows me a clear image and a fuzzy one. Very distracting indeed. It made my head swim.

I feel so much better after reading your postings. Last night was very disconcerting, I thought it was just me and my lazy eye.

Thanks so much.

Rick

I have had this happen to me before too. Try working on focusing on the front sight with your dominant eye when dry firing (still keep both eyes open though).

Worked for me.

Craig

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I find the clear tape distracting so use black tape OR for IDPA a have frosted a patch on my glasses with my sand blaster :)

Does IDPA not allow the tape? I was thinking about trying to get a classification before state rolls around. Do I need to make some frosted glasses?

I started using it at the end of august and was instantly amazed. Both eyes open, only one target and one set of sights. That was a huge improvement from having to squint or close my left eye at every shooting position. Just being able to use my left eye for peripheral vision in transitions helps a ton.

This thread completely fixed my vision issues with shooting. Now if I could just learn to see more.

Edited by Rob D
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It is possible to train your eyes to do some interesting things if you are willing to work at it a bit. I taught myself to be what is called an "alternating suppressor" in the eye biz. It came from using a monocular instrument (one eyed) at work. The images were impossible for my brain to fuse, so I learned to ignore the image I didn't need to see. Since I also had to look at a readout near the center of the instrument out of the optical axis of it, I would "switch off" the eye I was using to focus the device and read information on the readout. Back and forth!! If you squint one eye shut or are unable to close one eye without really clamping it shut, it eventually effects the focus of the open eye and it's possible for your vision to become blurry.

So here's what to try. A rifle scope is pretty handy for this, as it is by design monocular. A pair of binoculars will work for this as well, just don't hold both eyepieces up to your eyes. Looking through your telescope with both eyes open, one eye looking through the instrument, you will find most times that visual confusion results as your brain tries to use it's binocular focusing control loops to fuse the two images of very different sizes. We do this by disposition from shortly after birth, if you watch babies early in their development, you see them go through a period of visual confusion as they learn to track both eyes on an object. Also as they try to earn to focus from near to far, which is called accommodation. So back to the telescope. The non dominant eye is looking outside the telescope trying to figure out what to do with the image falling on the retina and those reflexes become useless, thus the visual confusion. With the free hand, (assuming you have one free) cover the eye not looking through the eye piece, leaving it open and relaxed. Repeat this. Being able to ignore the image you don't wish to use is handy for a rifleman as it allows you to acquire a target more quickly. If you are looking at the target and you bring a scoped rifle up you will more naturally point at the target. The red dot sights on an open gun or the ACOG type sights take advantage of this. You find the ACOG's are in lower powers, 1x to maybe 2.5x, more magnification than that and the advantage is lost for many because of the difference in image sizes again, makes it impossible to fuse them. At first you will find this more or less disturbing. People that are inclined to motion sickness may feel nauseous. If you persist, looking through the telescope, both eyes open and concentration your attention on the eye you wish to see with (visualizing an energy stream, I think another writer said) you will with time find it easier to "turn off the eye" you don't want to see with. Again concentrate on the eye looking through the telescope, both eyes open and relaxed. Cover the "outside eye" concentrate then move the cover away. The gentleman with the "lazy eye" very likely did this as a child as a result of being Anisotropic. Which is an expensive word for saying that his two eyes were very different in one being possibly very near or far sighted and the other for example being more or less normal. The common theme here is the brain being unable to fuse the two images (remember the baby) and so chooses to ignore the least valuable one.

In Yoga practice there are many exercises that strengthen the visual system. Pencil push ups, as mentioned previously by another writer in this thread, are what one of the old exercises is called now. It is to strengthen the accommodative action. Someone who is Presbyopic (needs bi-focals) can use this to force near vision sharpness against the resistance of the crystalline lens in the mature (old) eye. There is a chance though that the lack of flexibility will cause the eye to be sluggish in return to distance vision. Troublesome for our sport. I wear a "no-line" bi-focal. These work very well if they are properly fitted. They will allow small movements of the head up and down to bring the sights into pretty good focus as the gun is extended at arms length. Since most of our matches are shot in daylight, the reduced size of the pupil increases apparent depth of field, like a pin-hole camera so it's pretty sharp if the protective lenses you wear are clear. The color that will provide the sharpest vision is in the yellow range. Brown works next best. The color of the sights is important. The sun is rich in sodium and iron and magnesium. These elements at the temperatures in the solar atmosphere, emit strong yellow, and green light. The sodium emission is strongest. Our retina's are most sensitive in yellow and the eyes transmit this wavelength most efficiently, green is next. Yellow fiber optic front sights work well for the older eye with green next. Hope this information is helpful. I hope it will make gear decisions less complicated!

Please forgive the IDPA "street Nazi". He means well. Right now, the sights on an open gun aren't too practical for concealment or crawling in the mud. After all IDPA is more about surviving a gunfight then "merely" speed and precision. (As if speed and precision would not help in a gunfight!!) I don't want to start an argument, I shoot ALL these games because they are all valuable. If I were with a combat team or in executive protection, some of what works for USPSA could get you or your principle killed, so I might not vary my training as much as I do. The adrenaline cascade response is real, and they have a point even if pushed a little far!! They really want you to practice with your CCW gear.

Edited by redmanfixit
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Chris-

I had this problem when I first started shooting with both eyes open. I do not normally wear glasses. The problem seemed to go away with dryfire and practice. Good luck.

It seems to have gotten better over time but it's still a distraction. I've taken a break from the dryfire drills for awhile but going to start back up next week. Good stuff in this thread.

Chris C.

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The tape only obstructs my fovial vision

Hey, I just learned a new word! Always worthwhile.

Noun 1. foveal vision - vision with the fovea

daylight vision, photopic vision - normal vision in daylight; vision with sufficient illumination that the cones are active and hue is perceived.

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The images were impossible for my brain to fuse, so I learned to ignore the image I didn't need to see.

This is what Matt Burkett did. According to Matt, when he first started shooting with both eyes open, he saw two sight pictures, side by side. He just figured out which set of sights to watch, and did that. After awhile, the brain figured out the other set of sights wasn't important, and they went away.

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  • 2 weeks later...
Thanks Kyle.

So what do you guys who have trouble shooting with both eyes open, see when you use the strong sight drill that I posted above? Please let me know if what I described doesn't make any sense.

I'm developing a visual fitness program for my team and my students, and I'd like to find a fix for this.

Thanks,

Travis Tomasie

The line becomes an X when I blink with the lines crossing at the dot.

I always see a double target when I focus on the front sight with both eyes open. It's pretty disconcerting and I have to hold on the right target to hit.

I was dry fire practicing tonight and if I concentrated I could make the second image disappear for a few seconds. One of my big problems is the transition from looking at the target, to focusing on the front sight as I push my gun out and up to bear on the target. I've been practicing starting from retention and pusing the gun out to the target and shifting my focus to the front sight. It is hard to get my eye to shift focus very quickly.

I had laser vision correction last year and one thing I've noticed since then is that, especially at work, when I'm looking at something close for very long and then look at something far away my vision will not totally focus at first. It takes a few minutes for my vision to relax to the point where I can shift focus more quickly.

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  • 1 month later...

i tried the line dot thing and it stayed exactly the same, i was able to really focus on them and they just because SUPER clear???

something that has bothered me is I see two seperate guns when i'm looking at the front sight, I just know what one to use and the other I never really ever see unless i'm dry firing slowly or am thinking about it. Is this something I should worry about?

I don't know what it's called. I tried the pencil thing by keeping it in focus and had no problems moving it fast or slow to my nose and it stayed focused until it was within an half inch of my nose then I saw double.

I tried the tape thing and it just makes the double go away but when I shoot I don't see the double really, i know it's there I just know which one to use and the other seems to disappear. i kept taking the taped glasses on and off and it didn't really help me focus on the front sight any better either way.

also (B.E. Please chime in on this) when I was reading the book (yes THE ONE AND ONLY) and from what Brian was talking about during different sight pictures, when I focus on the front sight, The target NEVER gets blurry. I can see it just fine, is this some type of wrong focus or something?

I mean I totally focus on the front sight blade and it's super clear but the rear doesn't get fuzzy and the target doesn't get fuzzy.

This is something that really bothers me because i don't know if my vision is good or bad when it comes to shooting..

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  • 1 month later...
If you’re one to see double, can you try this exercise?

Print this out:

Strong sight

Hold this sheet perpendicular to the floor so that the line faces the ceiling. It should be about six inches from your nose, just below your eye level, and centered between both eyes. Look down the line to the dot and blink your eyes.

Does the line turn into an “X”? Are the lines crossing at the dot? If not, where do they cross? Is one line fading in and out? Cover one eye at a time to determine which line belongs to which eye.

I'd like to know what you're seeing with this. There are some good workouts that go along with it. You can also do pencil push-ups:

Take a pencil and hold it at arms length and focus on it. Bring it slowly to your nose. The goal is to bring the pencil all the way to your nose before the pencil appears to double. Do ten reps once a day, and until you can fuse the two images together at 1-2" from your nose.

I know this is a very old thread, but Im a relative newbie, and have been trying to work on what I see more. I see a narrow X, crossingat the dot. The line from the left eye seem to be the one that sort of comes and goes. the right eye line seems to stay more. What i find odd is when i first started shooting (3 months ago) it was obvious i was cross dominant (left eye, right handed) but after doing the "pencil pushups, a few times, and looking at your line with a dot drill, and then checking to see which eye is dominant, it looks like neither is right after doing the pushups. Focusing on an object,and covering one eye at a time, the object moves almost equal distance for both eyes.

Also, I am wondering for you guys that are cross dominant (right hand/left eye), are you taping over your right eye and staying with the cross dominant one, or are you trying to "correct" to shoot right eye/right hand?

Thanks

Bob

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I'm glad when old but good threads get brought up because if I haven't had a specific question about something I probably haven't read through the back logs enough to find all the good threads.

I'm RH, RE, always shot left closed but have tried the tape to good effect. I've slacked off on the tape and gone back to one eye lately. I want to work on both eyes open, preferably without the tape. I'll try to describe what I see:

If I focus both eyes on the sight, as Flex's flinch posting suggested, I see two targets. The tighter I focus on the sight the farther apart the 2 targets get and the blurrier the target gets, automatically choosing the target on the right to keep the sight on. If I focus on the target I see two blurry sights, lining up the left sight on the target. If I try either one for long or lose focus a little, both the front sight and the target are doubled with the left sight on the right target. I think I need to practice a lot more to make that alignment, left sight to right target more automatic and hope my brain learns to ignore the rest.

I can only imagine that this makes calling your shots more difficult than if I was shooting with one eye only.

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