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Chris Conley

Seeing Double With Both Eyes Open

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I suffered from this for years before I read Brian's book, it was an Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh moment, scores went up dramatically when I first started doing it. I put the tape on the inside of the glasses, you can hardly see it from the outside with a tinted lens.

Oh my. I've read BE's book, but I never tried the tape trick until tonight.............Holy smokies, I CAN SEE! I CAN SEE! :)

Try using the smallest piece you can get away with and still not run into any problems iwth vision. You will be able to see left, right, up and down but anytime you try to put the sights to the targets the eye gets blocked out and lets you focus with one eye.

Flyin40

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Try using the smallest piece you can get away with and still not run into any problems iwth vision. You will be able to see left, right, up and down but anytime you try to put the sights to the targets the eye gets blocked out and lets you focus with one eye.

Flyin40

I stll struggle with this. I use a large swath of tape on my left lens...large now because in the past, I have noticed that when shooting at sharp angles where it is needed to look out of the corner of my eyes, that I was not peering though the tape, and it created a double vision effect on the front sight. Over time, like you Flyin40, I hope to reduce the "taped" surface area.

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I suffered from this for years before I read Brian's book, it was an Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh moment, scores went up dramatically when I first started doing it. I put the tape on the inside of the glasses, you can hardly see it from the outside with a tinted lens.

Oh my. I've read BE's book, but I never tried the tape trick until tonight.............Holy smokies, I CAN SEE! I CAN SEE! :)

Try using the smallest piece you can get away with and still not run into any problems iwth vision. You will be able to see left, right, up and down but anytime you try to put the sights to the targets the eye gets blocked out and lets you focus with one eye.

Flyin40

Cool, thanks for the extra info. I'm going to work out this morning, and then drive over to the range and give my new found vision a try.

I can't describe the feelings I had last night when I was doing dry firing with the tape on my glasses. I think I finally had my "Ah Ha!" moment that I've seen so many others post about. It was so much fun dry firing last night (because I could actually see the front sight), that I had a re-dedication of sorts back to pistol shooting.

Thank you all again for sharing. I will post my range results later today. B)

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Well, the tape trick worked well today in live fire. I only got to shoot about 36 rounds on the plate rack before assisting with a CCH class, but there was a noticable difference in the ease of getting a good focus on the front sight and plate as needed.

It is amazing to me that a simple piece of tape can make such a huge difference. :)

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Thank you all again for sharing. I will post my range results later today.
It is amazing to me that a simple piece of tape can make such a huge difference. :)

That is great to hear. That is the kind of stuff this forum is about...sharing information to help each other shoot better. B)B)

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I focus on the target not the sights and over time the unused set of sights just kinda disappeared. I get some weird stares when I say that I am left eye dominant and right handed. It's that look of "How in the heck do you do that?" Maybe I will try the tape thing and see how it goes. The first problem I saw for me is that I don't dry fire with my glasses on in the first place. :lol: Maybe i should and put my muffs on too.

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If you’re one to see double, can you try this exercise?

Print this out:

Strong sight

Hold this sheet perpendicular to the floor so that the line faces the ceiling. It should be about six inches from your nose, just below your eye level, and centered between both eyes. Look down the line to the dot and blink your eyes.

Does the line turn into an “X”? Are the lines crossing at the dot? If not, where do they cross? Is one line fading in and out? Cover one eye at a time to determine which line belongs to which eye.

I'd like to know what you're seeing with this. There are some good workouts that go along with it. You can also do pencil push-ups:

Take a pencil and hold it at arms length and focus on it. Bring it slowly to your nose. The goal is to bring the pencil all the way to your nose before the pencil appears to double. Do ten reps once a day, and until you can fuse the two images together at 1-2" from your nose.

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Travis,

I'm glad you posted. I'm amazed at how you always have good drills to work the peepers. I had gotten away from that, which I regret.

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If you’re one to see double, can you try this exercise?

Print this out:

Strong sight

Hold this sheet perpendicular to the floor so that the line faces the ceiling. It should be about six inches from your nose, just below your eye level, and centered between both eyes. Look down the line to the dot and blink your eyes.

Does the line turn into an “X”? Are the lines crossing at the dot? If not, where do they cross? Is one line fading in and out? Cover one eye at a time to determine which line belongs to which eye.

I'd like to know what you're seeing with this. There are some good workouts that go along with it. You can also do pencil push-ups:

FWIW, I get a 'V', where the two lines don't quite touch at the bottom of the page. Both are pretty clear. The image from my right eye (I'm left-eye dominant) is over to the left of the left-eye image and appears just a little lower down.. maybe the diameter of the dot or so.

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First find out which of your eyes is a dominant one. Then train your vision to filter the image- you can easily do that by taping your shooting glasses at the area of your weak eye. Use transplant piece of tape with size of a coin. After a wile you will notice that you may remove the tape and will shoot with both eyes open.

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I'll never forget the day I opened the other eye. What a mindjob!

Now I can't even remember what it was like, I just see the one. It gets easier and is well worth the time and effort!

SA

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I use the tape and have for awhile. When I went to it, I started shooting MUCH better. I only use it high on the lense because if its low, its distracting. By t being high, it only effects my vision when I bear down on my sights.

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Thanks Kyle.

So what do you guys who have trouble shooting with both eyes open, see when you use the strong sight drill that I posted above? Please let me know if what I described doesn't make any sense.

I'm developing a visual fitness program for my team and my students, and I'd like to find a fix for this.

Thanks,

Travis Tomasie

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Thanks Kyle.

So what do you guys who have trouble shooting with both eyes open, see when you use the strong sight drill that I posted above? Please let me know if what I described doesn't make any sense.

I'm developing a visual fitness program for my team and my students, and I'd like to find a fix for this.

Thanks,

Travis Tomasie

If you are talking about the pencil drill the pencil never goes double for me. Everything in the back gound does. When I do the drill I focus on the very tip end of the lead. Doing it ten times makes my head feel weird too. That's the problem I have is when I focus on the front sight the target that I'm engaging turns into two.

Chris C.

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I tried both the pencil drill and the 'strong sight' drill with glasses off, with my single-vision sunglasses, and with the progressive bifocals (which are an adaptation unto themselves). In all cases, I had the same experience as Chris -- object of focus stays single, everything beyond that is double. I stopped before the headache & vertigo set in.

With the 'strong sight' drill, I do see a ghost of a line crossing at the dot, going from top left to bottom right at ~10-15 degree angle to the main vertical line. I think that's coming from the left eye which is non-dominant, but which actually has the better visual acuity. Not certain because, when I cover each eye individually, the ghost line disappears and all I see is the main vertical line.

I'm trying to shoot with both eyes open, but haven't tried tape or magic dot over the left eye. I can do it if I take extra time before every shot to ensure that the image I'm shooting at (of the two double target images) is the correct one. This is OK for training - while I have the time to work with it cautiously, but it's obviously not workable in either a match or defensive situation.

Edited by FranDoc

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If you’re one to see double, can you try this exercise?

Print this out:

Strong sight

Hold this sheet perpendicular to the floor so that the line faces the ceiling. It should be about six inches from your nose, just below your eye level, and centered between both eyes. Look down the line to the dot and blink your eyes.

Does the line turn into an “X”? Are the lines crossing at the dot? If not, where do they cross? Is one line fading in and out? Cover one eye at a time to determine which line belongs to which eye.

I'd like to know what you're seeing with this. There are some good workouts that go along with it. You can also do pencil push-ups:

Take a pencil and hold it at arms length and focus on it. Bring it slowly to your nose. The goal is to bring the pencil all the way to your nose before the pencil appears to double. Do ten reps once a day, and until you can fuse the two images together at 1-2" from your nose.

Hi,

I'm right handed, and right eye dominant, I shoot with both eyes open and see double targets when I focus on the front site.

with your test:

I see the dot, with an X over it, both lines are about equal, and inadvertantly one line gains dominance over the other with the other momentarily fading a bit.

when I close my left eye, I see one line, whith the closest to my face seems to start at the left edge of my nose, the end of the line is directly in front of my right eye.

when I close my right eye the line is noticably more crossed, with the closed part to my face seeming starting from directly in the center of my nose and ending in front of my left eye.

I did this several times and where the lines start seems to vary from side of nose, to center to other side

Edited by Jadepanther

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Hi,

I've got issues with double vision as well and have been working on them for the past few months.

The issue is that I see two targets when I focus on the gun and two guns, when I focus on the target. The image below (from GlockTalk.com) is a good illustration of what I see.

aiming_issue_double_image.jpg

From my research it seems that the double images are created by parallax and where the eyes are actually aligned (independently of where they are focused). For most people the point of alignment is also the point of focus.

I've been maintaining an online journal and documented some of this at: Eye Alignment and Eye Focus

I've also documented the practice I've been doing at: Training to shoot with both eyes open

I don't wear glasses and I'm not sure how this would work with glasses, but I hope it's of help.

I've had good luck at under 20 yards and have noticed an dramatic improvement.

Comments from the more experienced members would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

Cheers,

Achint

Edited by sandhu

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Thanks Kyle.

So what do you guys who have trouble shooting with both eyes open, see when you use the strong sight drill that I posted above? Please let me know if what I described doesn't make any sense.

I'm developing a visual fitness program for my team and my students, and I'd like to find a fix for this.

Thanks,

Travis Tomasie

I must be doing something wrong... it doesn't cross at all :unsure::(

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If you’re one to see double, can you try this exercise?

Print this out:

Strong sight

Hold this sheet perpendicular to the floor so that the line faces the ceiling. It should be about six inches from your nose, just below your eye level, and centered between both eyes. Look down the line to the dot and blink your eyes.

Does the line turn into an “X”? Are the lines crossing at the dot? If not, where do they cross? Is one line fading in and out? Cover one eye at a time to determine which line belongs to which eye.

I'd like to know what you're seeing with this. There are some good workouts that go along with it. You can also do pencil push-ups:

Take a pencil and hold it at arms length and focus on it. Bring it slowly to your nose. The goal is to bring the pencil all the way to your nose before the pencil appears to double. Do ten reps once a day, and until you can fuse the two images together at 1-2" from your nose.

Travis,

I've struggled with this for years. I can force myself to see one sight picture if I try. At speed no way.

The problem I think I have is that I have no real dominant eye, and so without tape, I find that the off eye picks up the front sight (because it is bigger maybe from the side angle than the rear view) so I see two front sights. I can shoot with either eye without an issue, but both, not so much.

I've tried every exercise I've seen posted. I can shoot well enough to hit A's at 7-10, but the tight shots I have to go to one eye.

IPDA doesn't allow tape on the glasses, so my first couple matches have been a challenge visually, because I'm not used to squinting one eye and just see blurr if I don't.

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IPDA doesn't allow tape on the glasses, so my first couple matches have been a challenge visually, because I'm not used to squinting one eye and just see blurr if I don't.

I've looked through the IDPA rulebook and I don't see where Tape on the Glasses would be disallowed? Can you clarify?

Angel

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IPDA doesn't allow tape on the glasses, so my first couple matches have been a challenge visually, because I'm not used to squinting one eye and just see blurr if I don't.

I've looked through the IDPA rulebook and I don't see where Tape on the Glasses would be disallowed? Can you clarify?

Angel

I've only shot two matches and was told that you cant do it. The IDPA Range Master said tape is NOT allowed because you wouldn't wear it "on the street." He is the Oregon Section Coordinator also. If he is wrong, I would LOVE to know. We have a bunch of cross dominant/non dominant folks here.

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IPDA doesn't allow tape on the glasses, so my first couple matches have been a challenge visually, because I'm not used to squinting one eye and just see blurr if I don't.

I've looked through the IDPA rulebook and I don't see where Tape on the Glasses would be disallowed? Can you clarify?

Angel

I've only shot two matches and was told that you cant do it. The IDPA Range Master said tape is NOT allowed because you wouldn't wear it "on the street." He is the Oregon Section Coordinator also. If he is wrong, I would LOVE to know. We have a bunch of cross dominant/non dominant folks here.

I don't see anywhere in the rulebook where it says "If you don't do it on the street you can't do it" either. This kind of interpretation by so called Range Masters is what has discouraged me from attending large IDPA matches. I don't wear a 1 1/2" Wilderness belt on the street, or a 5.11 Tactical Vest, or a set of Pro-Ears either? This isn't a competitive advantage, its a way to overcome a physical handicap in my opinion. I guess a call to Berryville is in order.

Angel

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I'll call them tomorrow as my other thread got locked with no answers. I can wear them all day comfortably and I can't find an anything in the rulebook saying it is not ok.

UPDATE

I called IDPA headquarters and asked them if it was legal to use tape on the shooting glasses and she said it is fine because there is no competitive advantage. I asked that she please verify that and let me know what the bosses had to say. I talked to her today and said that it is fine to use semi-transpartent tape on your shooting glasses. Tape that is opaque might be a safety issue in their opinion.

Edited by Loves2Shoot

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I use glasses all the time, and I use a small piece from regular brown target tape while shooting. I put it against my shirt first so it doesn't stick too hard on my glasses. (The glue is a pain to wash off...) It is great to see the front sight in sharp focus without stretching your face to close the left eye. Better groups too. Both eyes open it's much easier to relax, closing the left eye causes extra tension everywhere, even flinching on a bad day.

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Hi guys, sorry for bringing up an old post.

I'm cross dominance (RH/LE). I'm still new to the world of guns, so I'm learning to shoot with both eyes open. The moment I focus on the front sight, I'll see double, but I'm trying to learn to point sights at the left target. I double checked by closing my non dominance eye, I'm spot on.

Is that what you guys are refering to or u guys somehow mentally block off the non-dominance eye vision?!

Also I notice when I'm shooting, and concentrating real hard, my non-dominance eye tends to flicker it's vision. Is that normal or I'm just trying too hard that I'm about to pass out?

Thanks in advance.

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