midvalleyshooter Posted February 9, 2007 Share Posted February 9, 2007 (edited) Hello, Have any of you ever seen a match where guns and ammo were provided on a surprise basis to shoot a match? Check out the Web site: http://www.californiacup-idpa.com/ And a posting and discussion on another forum: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=48608 I am just getting back into IDPA after a few years of shooting CAS. So I figure I may be out of the loop on this sort of thing. What are your thoughts on this? Thanks, Keith Paul IDPA# 04285 Edited February 10, 2007 by midvalleyshooter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singlestack Wonder Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 Yes, several times. It certainly reinforces the idea of "shoot on demand". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JD45 Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 Every time I have encountered a stage like that, it nearly always seemed to help my score. Plus, it is so much fun! They always place the targets really close on those stages around here, and the guns provided are always slick as glass. We shot some dudes slicked-up Ruger SP-101 one time, and I won the stage(I never compete with a revolver) . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hot Brass Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 Yes. The scenario was that you were at your father-in-laws house and you only knew he kept a gun in the box. It was a blind stage that had a moon clip revolver in a box with loose ammo. The shooter had to figure out everything else. It was quite entertaining trying to figure out how to get the cases out of that revolver for a reload. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tacted Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 Yes, I ran a stage at the Winter Championship 3 years back that required the shooter to use 2 J frames in succession as they retreated along a jewelry counter before they got to use their own weapon. It was fun. We had one SO whose only job was loading & placing the revolvers, as well as keeping them clean. I believe "pick up" scenarios are an important element for IDPA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midvalleyshooter Posted February 10, 2007 Author Share Posted February 10, 2007 Yes, several times. It certainly reinforces the idea of "shoot on demand". Normaly I see stages as tests of shooting skills. What are they trying to test here? Keith Every time I have encountered a stage like that, it nearly always seemed to help my score. Plus, it is so much fun!They always place the targets really close on those stages around here, and the guns provided are always slick as glass. We shot some dudes slicked-up Ruger SP-101 one time, and I won the stage(I never compete with a revolver) . My understanding is we will be shooting new out of the box guns. Whats your take on that? Keith Yes. The scenario was that you were at your father-in-laws house and you only knew he kept a gun in the box. It was a blind stage that had a moon clip revolver in a box with loose ammo. The shooter had to figure out everything else. It was quite entertaining trying to figure out how to get the cases out of that revolver for a reload. Club match or larger match? This match I am talking about is the state championship which has room for 200 shooters. When I was match director for our local IDPA club one thing I learned was this: I had little control over the skill at arms of folks who showed up to shoot the match. I ran a few "Officer Down" type stages and such with second handguns and shotguns being used in the COF. I have seen scary moments when a shooter under match pressure (perceived) grabs a firearm he has not handled before. But I also have seen some funny moments as you have Hot Brass They are requiring one be ranked Marksman or above to shoot this match. Keith Yes,I ran a stage at the Winter Championship 3 years back that required the shooter to use 2 J frames in succession as they retreated along a jewelry counter before they got to use their own weapon. It was fun. We had one SO whose only job was loading & placing the revolvers, as well as keeping them clean. I believe "pick up" scenarios are an important element for IDPA. I am certainly not putting down the "pick up" gun stage concept. I have been just trying to get my mind wrapped around the idea. I'm going to the match and I will prepare as much as I can. Any suggestions on what I can do to prepare? Thanks all for your input , Keith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
basman Posted February 11, 2007 Share Posted February 11, 2007 Yep, once a Glock 19 in a box on a tablet and another match had a 2" snubby revolver in a drawer. Both had to be loaded prior to shooting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jane Posted February 14, 2007 Share Posted February 14, 2007 Have any of you ever seen a match 2006 Calif state match had one stage where you started using a provided revolver before you could get to your own gun. The SO loaded it with 3 rounds so you had to keep pulling the trigger until you got the three rounds off. Some people griped that the same cylinders weren't loaded for each cometitor, but I didn't keep track... 2006 IDPA Nationals BUG match was 4 stages with revolver and ammo provided. BUG match was scored separately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichiganShootist Posted February 14, 2007 Share Posted February 14, 2007 (edited) I think it depends on the demands placed on a shooter. They need to be realistic !!! Firing 5 rounds out of a J frame at close range to start a stage might make sense... but in the Ohio State IDPA match last year they required MANDATORY head shots on multiple targets with a "pick up gun"... The gun... which shooters were were not allowed to inspect.,,,, was a S & W semi. auto with a 12 -16 lb first round trigger pull and a VERY light 2# tigger pull for the following shots, and tiny 3 dot sights. That is just B. S. in my opinion... and it has virtually nothing to do with the basis of IDPA.... especially with the head shot requirement. It's just a way to get a home field advantage at a major match. Edited February 14, 2007 by MichiganShootist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted February 15, 2007 Share Posted February 15, 2007 I've had some of the best times shooting a stage that really applies the element of surprise. The most fun I've had involved a scenario that places the shooter coming from a match with his/her gun bag to visit his father's home to show off his/her new pistol and while coming up to the driveway, bad guys are waiting. The stage starts with 4 mags loaded with differing amount of rounds in each, 1 with 3 rounds, another with 5 rounds and so on.... The mags are loose in your bag with your pistol and you have low cover, high cover an open space and then high cover and back to low cover. At the the sound of the buzzer you grab the mags (and they taken in random order) stow them and begin. That was one of the most challenging but very fun stages I've shot to date. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hot Brass Posted February 17, 2007 Share Posted February 17, 2007 midvalleyshooter, the match I described was a local indoor match. While it was a lot of fun and challenging, it would be a real bottleneck in a sanctioned match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
et45 Posted March 19, 2007 Share Posted March 19, 2007 We had a stage in which you shot your handgun empty and picked up and loaded either a AR180 or an AK rifle to finish the stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted March 19, 2007 Share Posted March 19, 2007 at 11.6 rounds + per stage sounds more like USPSA than an IDPA match.... How close can you get w/o crossing the line.??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted March 20, 2007 Share Posted March 20, 2007 I have seen it several times, but always the scenario has been that you shoot your own gun dry, then transition over to the supplied gun - which always seems to be some tiny, stiff triggered little jobby for some reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Stoeger Posted March 20, 2007 Share Posted March 20, 2007 Stages were you are required to use a certain gun are problematic. If they are blind, or have a blind element (You cant inspect the gun before using it) then what do you do about reshoots? If for some reason the competitor needs to reshoot the state, he gets an advantage. Also, if the Course gun malfunctions, the competitor really should get a reshoot. (range equipment failure) Later, Ben Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve J Posted March 20, 2007 Share Posted March 20, 2007 at 11.6 rounds + per stage sounds more like USPSA than an IDPA match....How close can you get w/o crossing the line.??? IDPA stages have an 18 round maximum limit unless it's a standard exercise with multiple strings of fire, so a match with 10 scenario stages for 180 rounds would be perfectly legit, as would a 20 stage match for 360 rounds. Hello,Have any of you ever seen a match where guns and ammo were provided on a surprise basis to shoot a match? Check out the Web site: http://www.californiacup-idpa.com/ And a posting and discussion on another forum: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=48608 I am just getting back into IDPA after a few years of shooting CAS. So I figure I may be out of the loop on this sort of thing. What are your thoughts on this? Thanks, Keith Paul IDPA# 04285 A pick up gun in a stage is one thing, but entire stages with "blind" guns? I skimmed the forum link you posted and I didn't see that anyone had asked the really important question. If no competitor will be allowed to practice with the "blind" guns, let alone even know what they will be, then that means that no match staff should be allowed to shoot the match. They will know ahead of time the very information that the competitors are not allowed to know. Surely they realize this would not be fair, and surely it would be impossible to find enough people willing to volunteer to run a state match if they're not allowed to compete in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFD Posted March 20, 2007 Share Posted March 20, 2007 I don't know why, but it does seem that if a handgun is provided it's always a snubby. Must be a "transition to the backup gun" deal. I shoot an outlaw match that regularly has a stage that limits what you can load in your gun, then has you transition to a pump shotgun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeadHunter Posted October 7, 2007 Share Posted October 7, 2007 There was a stage at the 1998 Nationals that required using a provided Model 15 S&W revolver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prreed10 Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 (edited) One of the local clubs uses a pump shotgun every now and then - the setup is usually the same - your pistol is in a box at position 2 - 3 birdshot rounds in the shotgun at position 1 - engage 2 popers at about 20 ft with the shotgun, place it on a table and move to position 2 and retrieve your pistol and finish the stage. If you happen to miss with the shotgun, you could re-engage with your pistol. At the Mississippi State Match last year, you started one stage with a G19 with a rail mounted flashlight to engage the first few targets and then placed the pistol on the table and engaged the rest with your own pistol. I never have seen a stage where the entire thing was shot with provided firearm. Edited October 30, 2007 by prreed10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dajarrel Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 We shot a stage once at a local match where I placed a Mod 19, K framed revolver in a pistol rack. The shooter would pick up the revolver and engage three close targets then put the gun back in the rack (for safety reasons) and finish the stage with his gun. The revolver was a 6" gun with "light" loads and a slick trigger. Although there was some initial grumbling, everyone later said that they enjoyed it. I thinks variety, within the rules, is one of the things that draw us to the sport. FWIW dj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singlestack Wonder Posted November 8, 2007 Share Posted November 8, 2007 I thinks variety, within the rules, is one of the things that draw us to the sport. +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Koski Posted July 4, 2008 Share Posted July 4, 2008 The Nevada IDPA state match a couple months ago had two "pick up gun" stages where you grabbed a 5 shot snubbie or a 6 shot revolver and finished the stage. At the end of the match, they gave the guns away in the drawing. That ROCKED! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persona non grata Posted July 4, 2008 Share Posted July 4, 2008 gHeyer than a football bat! whatever that Ben guy said, + 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe4d Posted July 4, 2008 Share Posted July 4, 2008 I think it depends on the demands placed on a shooter. They need to be realistic !!!Firing 5 rounds out of a J frame at close range to start a stage might make sense... but in the Ohio State IDPA match last year they required MANDATORY head shots on multiple targets with a "pick up gun"... The gun... which shooters were were not allowed to inspect.,,,, was a S & W semi. auto with a 12 -16 lb first round trigger pull and a VERY light 2# tigger pull for the following shots, and tiny 3 dot sights. That is just B. S. in my opinion... and it has virtually nothing to do with the basis of IDPA.... especially with the head shot requirement. It's just a way to get a home field advantage at a major match. Yep, Pretty much . I dont see anything wrong with messing around with that at local club matches but not for anything bigger. The problem with surprise stages is they are never a surprise for everyone. Match staff generally shoots the match. I dont have a problem with pickup gun, shoot the badguy then pick up his gun and shoot the rest of the bad guys etc stages, I also dont have a problem with how hard or easy the shooting is. The problem I have is it isnt the same for everyone if you try to keep it a secret or surprise the type of gun. At a sanctioned match the opnly way to be fair would be to advertise several weeks in advance for instance on the entry form, Stage 3 will be a pickup gun stage consisting of a Ruger SP101 model krxxxx, you will need to fire 5 shots reload with provided 38 spcl factory ammo and reengage targets at 10 to `15 yards. The Ruger is in stock form. Putting out the info ahead of time would give everyone the oportunity to check out the gun or one similar. Whether the shooters do or not is on them but it gives everyone the same chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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