Oversize Cylinder Stop

[sensei]

Hi guys,

I am back .... the Shotgun take all my time, but now it is "revolver-time".

I was reading a lot of post about the cylinder stop, i have two CS forged in my bag, but i read that some of you prefer the MIM version, (i have two S&W 625-8 .... ).

But i read about an Oversize Cylinder Stop by Power Custom, my question is there are somebody who use this Oversize CS, impression ? .... need to be fitted ? ...

Thank you for any information.

Luca.

(it is possible to order, from Italy, some little parts from Apex - Randy Lee ? .... the Skeletonized Hammer, spring kit, ....)

[Waltermitty]

I tried an oversized fitted stop, but found no advantage to it.

I am using standard MIM parts and haven't replaced a stop since I switched to Ti cylinders in both my 625-8's. With the stainless steel cylinders I was replacing MIM stops pretty regularly, for some folks I can see that a harder stop could be an improvement. However, if you are truly hard on your gun, that will only shift more of a pounding to the cylinder, and when that gets good and peened in the notches, you get to replace the cylinder.

I have ordered parts directly from Randy, I don't know what his current situation is. He may have been deported to some foreign country (like Marin County) so it would be best to call or email him direct.

Apex Tactical Website

[Dogged]

I am using standard MIM parts and haven't replaced a stop since I switched to Ti cylinders in both my 625-8's. With the stainless steel cylinders I was replacing MIM stops pretty regularly, for some folks I can see that a harder stop could be an improvement. However, if you are truly hard on your gun, that will only shift more of a pounding to the cylinder, and when that gets good and peened in the notches, you get to replace the cylinder.

Apex Tactical Website

I've heard a lot abput peened cylinder notches. What exactly is a peened cylinder stop, how does it happen, how does it affect my gun's functioning and lastly anybody have pictures of peening?

thanx

[pskys2]

If you look at the notches on the outside of the cylinder. On one side you'll see a scallop, on the other the notch will be square. As the cylinder Slams to a stop that flat side impacts the side of the cylinder stop (that comes up from the bottom of the frame). Over time the top edge of that flat side will become deformed and metal will be pushed up. You can feel it when you run your finger over it.

It will happen with high speed shooting. The SS guns seem worse than Blued. It can get bad enough to drag on the cylinder stop, wearing that part even more. It can be dressed off a few times.

It basically is evidence that the cylinder notch is expanding in width. At some point, maybe 2-300,000+ cycles it may reach the point of needing to replace the cylinder itself.

Wish someone would prove out a finish that would stop/delay the actions. Don't know of any yet.

Note it will happen when dry firing also.

[Waltermitty]

I am using standard MIM parts and haven't replaced a stop since I switched to Ti cylinders in both my 625-8's. With the stainless steel cylinders I was replacing MIM stops pretty regularly, for some folks I can see that a harder stop could be an improvement. However, if you are truly hard on your gun, that will only shift more of a pounding to the cylinder, and when that gets good and peened in the notches, you get to replace the cylinder.

Apex Tactical Website

I've heard a lot abput peened cylinder notches. What exactly is a peened cylinder stop, how does it happen, how does it affect my gun's functioning and lastly anybody have pictures of peening?

thanx

Is your question about stops or notches? Generically, peening is the movement of material (metal) in response to impact. In relation to the mass and speed involved, the notch/stop interface is a pretty small area.

If you don't get into the fun of trying to do a lot of sub 2 second Bill Drill's it may never come up for you. Some of us are also apparently less smooth on the trigger stroke than others causing the cylinder notch to slam into the stop.

It manifests itself in a condition called "throw by" by some. This is where the cylinder doesn't stop at the next position and rolls on past the primer or even to the next round after that. Off-center primer hits (on the rotational arc) can be an early indication.

[David Sinko]

I'm curious about the "throw by" after a speed reload. The last couple of times I've been shooting my 625 I vividly recall two times I did a speed reload, pulled the trigger and got the dreadful CLICK. I had closed the cylinder quickly during the reload and the stop hadn't popped into any of the notches. For that first shot the firing pin apparently hit somewhere between the chambers, as there was no hit on any of the primers. But the gun has never skipped any other time. It seems to me the gun is finally starting to go out of time after much heavy use, but as long as the cylinder is properly locked up after a speedload it has never happened. Yet.

Dave Sinko

[Waltermitty]

I'm curious about the "throw by" after a speed reload. The last couple of times I've been shooting my 625 I vividly recall two times I did a speed reload, pulled the trigger and got the dreadful CLICK. I had closed the cylinder quickly during the reload and the stop hadn't popped into any of the notches. For that first shot the firing pin apparently hit somewhere between the chambers, as there was no hit on any of the primers. But the gun has never skipped any other time. It seems to me the gun is finally starting to go out of time after much heavy use, but as long as the cylinder is properly locked up after a speedload it has never happened. Yet.

Dave Sinko

If the cylinder is locked in the frame, it isn't necessary for the cylinder stop and notch to be engaged for the next shot to fire when everything is correct, (when you stroke the trigger the hand will properly position the cylinder even if it doesn't start out in the right spot) so, something is not quite right in your 625; your task is to figure out what it is.

It could be the stop or notches and it only happens at reload because the unloaded trigger/hand/hammer mechanism has less resistance at the start of the stroke because you aren't starting the cylinder rotation at the same moment; when the hand does finally engage the star it is going as fast as it ever does when you pull the trigger and gets a stout kick right into the cylinder stop. It's hard on the gun, but I can usually demonstrate a "throw by" on a border line gun by really stroking the trigger in a dry-firing condition (or when doing 2 second bill drills ).

Or maybe the gun isn't going shut all the way due to an out of alignment crane, or the hand is missing the star due to several reasons if it doesn't catch the star at the bottom of the window.

I probably wouldn't suspect timing issues due to wear. Generally, timing gets later and later as the parts wear, which actually reduces stress on the stop and notches. I won't say I have any personal experience <cough> but as I've heard it told, some guns get so late they won't run slow at all; you have to stroke them hard so the momentum will carry the cylinder up to the stop before the hammer falls. That would give the stops and the notches a much easier life I would think.

[David Sinko]

I do recall never having a problem once the cylinder was locked up. The two times it did happen, the next and subsequent rounds fired. This would indicate to me that the cylinder was closed properly. Maybe the problem is with one chamber and I just happened to find that chamber after both reloads. I am going to concentrate on my 625 very soon and hopefully I will get a better handle on the situation and where the problem is. I bought my 625 used and it was not exactly in pristine condition. I remember the frame and barrel were bead blasted but the cylinder was not, so maybe it already had a new cylinder when I bought it. I have put about 10,000 rounds through it and quite a bit more dry fire.

On the other hand, my 66 has seen some very hard use and I bought it new. It has seen quite a lot of very fast shooting and has never skipped or let me down in any way. I have a short Redhawk which has also seen a lot of fast DA use and that gun will no longer fire DA when the trigger is pulled very slowly. I fear this one will be an expensive fix since Ruger does not sell many of the important parts to anybody.

Dave Sinko

[RogerT]

It manifests itself in a condition called "throw by" by some. This is where the cylinder doesn't stop at the next position and rolls on past the primer or even to the next round after that. Off-center primer hits (on the rotational arc) can be an early indication.

My gun does that, and I suspected "operator error", but if I'm not short stroking the trigger what is the remedy for "throw by"?

I get strike marks at the edge of the primer (between the primer and primer pocket) on two cylinders when shooting fast, but it works OK when firing slowly.

What should I check?

[Bubber]

It manifests itself in a condition called "throw by" by some. This is where the cylinder doesn't stop at the next position and rolls on past the primer or even to the next round after that. Off-center primer hits (on the rotational arc) can be an early indication.

My gun does that, and I suspected "operator error", but if I'm not short stroking the trigger what is the remedy for "throw by"?

I get strike marks at the edge of the primer (between the primer and primer pocket) on two cylinders when shooting fast, but it works OK when firing slowly.

What should I check?

RogerT, From what has been my limited experience is that most of the time it haas been the cylinder stop or the cylinder stop spring. If you change the sylinder stop and have access to the springs I would change both. If the problem has turned up over time and everything worked well before that MAY be the problem.

[Waltermitty]

It manifests itself in a condition called "throw by" by some. This is where the cylinder doesn't stop at the next position and rolls on past the primer or even to the next round after that. Off-center primer hits (on the rotational arc) can be an early indication.

My gun does that, and I suspected "operator error", but if I'm not short stroking the trigger what is the remedy for "throw by"?

I get strike marks at the edge of the primer (between the primer and primer pocket) on two cylinders when shooting fast, but it works OK when firing slowly.

What should I check?

RogerT, From what has been my limited experience is that most of the time it haas been the cylinder stop or the cylinder stop spring. If you change the sylinder stop and have access to the springs I would change both. If the problem has turned up over time and everything worked well before that MAY be the problem.

I agree. It is also possible that if a new cylinder and stop were installed the fit could be too tight. This can cause decent performance when perfectly clean, but get a few dozen rounds into a match and dirt buildup can cause a skip. Yeah, I've done that too.