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Mayday, Mayday, Mayday!


zhunter

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Crimps are looking good.

OAL is consistent at 1.248"

It is either a powder problem, the powder is dry and they cases were/are not lubed, or a chrono problem.

Who knows, I will chrono some rounds tomorrow.

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Zhunter,

My loads almost went minor at A6 last year due to the crimp. I had lenthened the OAL by some small amount and the crimp die wasnt hitting at the same spot. I like the crimp pretty tight so that the revolver reloads don't hang up on the brass. I was gaugeing the brass and noticed that almost all of them were catching on the gauge. I got my crimp back where it wouldn't hang on my case gauge and discovered that the inconsistancies were gone and PF was where it should be.

I guess what I'm saying is that the crimp can be safe on a .45 round but not be tight enought for consistant velocity.

YMMV,

FWIW

dj

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OK, here are yesterdays results

The Chrono, with fresh battery, was in a sunny but shaded position, NO direct sunlight.

WWB was VERY consistent, High and Low were only 14 fps apart.

My .40 Titegroup loads was nearly as good, and makes Major :)

The load in question...... drum roll please

SUX!!!!!

717 makes Major with the 230 Grain bullet

My first shot was 745, and I am thinking, YEAH BABY!!!!!

But each subsequent shot in the string got progressively lower, bottoming out at 680.

I was shooting 6 shot strings and repeated the same results all 3 times. I have NO idea why this could be happening. There were several Enos people there watching that have been reading about this problem throughout the life of this thread. My rounds were CLOSELY scrutinized, and the only thing that anyone mentioned as that, like above, possibly, but only possibly, my crimp was on the light side.

I have ordered some different bullets that should be here when I return from work next Monday. I do feel that the 4.2 grains of Clays is enough charge to make Major. But, I do NOT like the inconsistency of my chrono readings. I am NOT the type to leave things to chance.

So, I will tighten my crimp ever so slightly, I will load the Montana Golds as well as the new bullets with the improved crimp, and stay with 4.2 for my next chrono testing session.

Keep the ideas coming guys, it is a mystery to me!!!!

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With mixed brass you could be getting different crimp tightness. Make sure you put a GOOD crimp on them. Had this happen once before.

That is my next move so to speak.

Edited to add: Crimp has been "fixed". Now waiting on new bullets to arrive, and yeah, for me to get back from London, it is a werk week :)

Edited by zhunter
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Here is an observation. Given the consistency of the loading elements, crimp, OAL, powder charge etc. perhaps you have a temperature sensitivity issue with Clays. For the first shot, the chamber isn't warm but it gets warmer with each round fired. If the results you get show the rounds getting slower as the chamber gets warmer, there could be your answer.

If that's not the case, then maybe it's the powder volume in the round. I use universal clays in .40 and it likes to be at about 70% volume of the case otherwise I get swings of up to 70 fps. If the powder isn't occupying much volume of the case, perhaps not all of it is burning creating the inconsistent velocities. With Universal clays, I can tilt the gun back, give a tap to the side and increase my fps by 10 on the next shot because all the powder is stacked at the back of the case.

Are you using straight clays?

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<_< Well I see most shooters set up a crono and they are only 5 to 7 feet from the first screen. = normaly not a big deal and the results are ok. BUT the crono data says to set the first streen up at 10 feet away. = This is so that with a fast powder and big slow bullet, is says the (air) / powder blast that comes out ahead of the bullet & starts the crono premature,- Thin the bullet caches up and gets the reading on the last sreen.

The clays is faster than TG =this fits the described setup that is why the (book) says to set the screans up out at 10' to the first screen, ? how close was the first screen? and was the owder in the test setup that much diferent?

This is the info that came with my Pact . When a box gets made all that is kind of avoided with the small entrance hole.

<_< ??? <_< or could be Karma ? did you do all your work aroud the house first?

Edited by AlamoShooter
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Clays has been pretty consistent for me. I wonder if you're on to something there, Jaime. Even with slow powders, I wonder if unburned granules can screw with the sensors up close. I remember back when Dave was trying 2400 in his open gun and my chrono was getting dusted with unburned powder (and it was probably 15 feet away!)

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Clays has been pretty consistent for me. I wonder if you're on to something there, Jaime. Even with slow powders, I wonder if unburned granules can screw with the sensors up close. I remember back when Dave was trying 2400 in his open gun and my chrono was getting dusted with unburned powder (and it was probably 15 feet away!)

I gotta look for my old book , but it said that the probelm is caused by the blast of air (in front ) of the bullet. Kind of the slow mo photo thing with the photo of the bullet emerging from a cloud of gass out in front of the gun.

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I remember back when Dave was trying 2400 in his open gun and my chrono was getting dusted with unburned powder (and it was probably 15 feet away!)

Dude, that was sweet!!! And so wrong at the same time... :D

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Z, are you getting the results I was asking about?

Carina

I am getting shat you are talking about, the velocity goes down with each shot in a string. I am using regular Clays, NOT universal.

The only thing I can think is the Crimp, which has been increased.

There are too many other people shooting Clays in .45 is the same load as myself for it to be a temperature issue.

It is either crimp, bullets that my gun does not like, or a bad jug of powder.

We will find out next week.

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if you cant get it to work for you, use the Titegroup...it will work.

its hard to believe 4.2 isnt making major..im at over 170 with 4.0 and a 230 berrys plated bullet at 1.250 and a federal 150 primer in winchester once fired brass.

buy some fed primers. do like merlin said and get some precision bullets. 3.8 grains makes major 3.9-4.0 will get you nearly 800 fps at 1.200 oal with the precisions.

Good luck/

Harmon

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ZHunter,

Here are some chrono results I just had using Clays in .45ACP. I'm in Gainesville so have about the same overall climate as you do.

Chrono_Log_1.htm

All rounds were mixed brass or nickel with 230 grain Zero JHPs, 4.0 grains of Clays, a 0.469 crimp. The OAL for the first run (Batch 17) was 1.236. All the others were 1.240. I used two different guns. Both are 5" 1911s. The one labeled BS (no comments from the peanut gallery please <_< ) is a Springer Black Stainless. The one labeled SC is an S&W 1911Sc.

As you can see, the results are reasonably consistent and all but one round out of 50 exceeded the 165 PF with only 4.0 grains of Clays. Note that the second day was cooler than the first yet the results are not significantly different. For some reason, the nickel casing rounds seem to have a little more oomph. It may be that there is a little less volume in the nickel casings.

Edited by XD Niner
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1-30 Report

I tightened up my crimp, loaded up some Zero Bullets to go with the Montana Golds.

Went up to a 4.2 charge of Clays. I also tested some 4.0's with the new crimp.

Zero's and MG's were both the same. At best 50% made major.

I have looked at about 20 threads on the .45 and checked data from Enos members on these threads, and EVERYONE makes major with 4.0 of Clays, a few, and I mean a VERY few use 4.2 Clays.

I was getting as low as 654 and up to 754. 713 is the 165 PF cutoff.

So, I have hand measured the charge, I have checked the OAL and the results are still inconsistent and will not make Major.

My chrono continues to give consistent readings on mine and other people's .40 and continues to give consistent readings on WWB in .45.

My conclusion is that I either have a bad batch of Clays or my gun just doesn 't like Clays.

I just ordered 1 lb. of Clays and will see what the new powder will do.

I am now leaning towards Titegroup for the FL Open.

I will update next week again.

ZH

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