Gunmac Posted January 9, 2007 Share Posted January 9, 2007 Instead of going to a gun smith can you purchase tuned parts for a revolver that can be dropped in? Primary interest would be GP100 and S&W 686. Thanks, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waltermitty Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 The popular consensus is that the only "drop in" components on a revo is ammunition. So for most S&W parts, no, for most Ruger parts, Hell no. On the flip side, all you really need to do a boffo action job on a revo is a good square stone (to smooth out rough spots) and either a set of reduced power springs or the willingness to cut/bend the springs already in the gun. Cheap fun even if you ruin a spring or two learning the tricks. As you gain skill and confidence you can learn to use hammer and trigger shims to center those components in the frame (and reduce drag) then graduate to apprentice dremologist and start making chips. This will get you 80 - 90 % of what a proper gunsmith can do. For that last 10 - 20% (the hardest money to earn) it needs to go to a pro. By then you'll know better what you want and how much the work is really worth. There's two cents, don't spend it all in one place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmoney Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 (edited) For that last 10 - 20% (the hardest money to earn) it needs to go to a pro. I agree that doing a revolver action is not a drop-in proposition, but I must disagree that a pro gunsmith is required to finish the job. Many high-level revolver shooters do their own action work and create results that are well beyond the capability of most gunsmiths. I began working on my own guns in the late '80s partially because of my frustration with the results I kept getting from nationally-known gunsmiths. Maybe it's arrogant of me to think this, but the only gunsmith that I think can hold a candle to my own revolver work is Randy Lee (and it's more like a torch than a candle!) I have issues with certain aspects of Randy's work--I think he takes 'em a little too light on DA, and I think he leaves the trigger rebound too slow for USPSA stuff--but the man does have skills. I encourage shooters who have a modicum of mechanical aptitude to learn to work on their own guns. It's a great feeling of freedom. First thing to get for action work on revolvers is not a dremel tool, by the way, it's the three-piece white ceramic stone set they sell at Brownells...most of what you do inside the gun is reciprocal rather than rotational. Edited January 10, 2007 by Carmoney Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waltermitty Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 (edited) I agree that doing a revolver action is not a drop-in proposition, but I must disagree that a pro gunsmith is required to finish the job. Many high-level revolver shooters do their own action work and create results that are well beyond the capability of most gunsmiths. I won't quibble that some greybeard that's been doing his own work for many years can turn out better work than many folks calling themselves gunsmiths. We all know how easy it is to have business cards printed up and start hacking away in your garage on other people's stuff. Most of us also recognize the liability aspects of dealing with the general public. But as you noted in Randy Lee's case, there are professional gunsmiths out there that have earned the title (Gemini Customs with Ruger, Cylinder & Slide with Colts, The Clark operation for several items) to name a few. I think the average person can do a great deal on their own to improve a firearms' performance and said so in my advice to the OP, but to produce a "top level" firearm typically takes tools and experience only some very few people have made the commitment to acquire. I don't know Gunmac, so won't prejudge how far he can go, and I won't cast aspersions at your gunsmithing prowess (or opinions regarding a variety of "finished gun" preferences from appearance to trigger pull). However, I think a study of 1000 neophytes passing through this board asking a question similar to that of the OP would show that the vast majority will never achieve the level of performance that the handful of hard-core amatures on this board have managed. So in a back-handed-compliment sort of way, I'll tell you that for the majority of shooters out there (some of which are GM's in competition) they would not be able to sit down and turn out guns at the same level you can; and that's not a slam on them, it's just that different people have different talents. I've met some Doctors (and Lawyers!) that couldn't hang a ceiling fan, so I won't tell the next person that asks, that anyone can do better than an electrician just because I've had to re-do a bunch of crap supposedly "lisenced tradesmen" have done in houses I own. I have seen some examples of the Pinnacle of the craft, and they aren't being produced by hobby gunplumbers. So we'll have to agree to disagree that any Joe with a dremel and a screw driver can do better even than "most" gunsmiths, and virtually none can achieve what we would mutually agree the best gunsmiths can do profitably on a daily basis. And the OP should start with something simple (stoning parts and changing springs) and find out if he can get his gun where he wants it (like you?) or if he got frustrated and stumped early on and therefore is better advised to seek out a gunsmith. If he goes through the process including discussions on this board, he'll also probably end up with an excellent idea of who he should go to and what he should ask for. Edited January 10, 2007 by Waltermitty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck-IL Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 That was very well put. In a minor thread jack, has anyone a current web reference for Gemini Customs....the last I saw is now defunct. www.geminicustoms.com Google search of the name or "Marc Morganti" just yields references in articles and such. Thanks /Bryan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmoney Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 Walt, point well taken. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pin Shooter Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 Hi Gunmac..... It should also be noted that what YOU want out of a revolver trigger, can be very unique, and difficult to describe. You can become a mathematics expert, and have rebound speeds and trigger pull pressures bounce all around you, but quite often, what feels good to you, might suck to some one else. I have held and fired some of the most noted competitive revolver shooters guns over the past couple of years, and not one of them felt the same as each other, or as mine. Some of the guns that have been used to beat me ragged at a match, felt to me "terrible" but they worked very well for the owners. "too well as it turns out" I guess the first question you ned to ask yourself is what are you looking for? Can you shoot someone elses guns, and see if you like what has been done to theirs. Is their trigger too heavy, too light, slow return....heavy return, do you like a trigger stop...do you want to shoot single action or double action? If you decide to give it a go yourself....remember....go slow....it is easy to take metal off......it is a lot harder to put it back on. If nothing else, you will become an expert at stripping it down, and putting it back together. Enjoy Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikey357 Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 GOOD THREAD!!! ...First off, Mark Morganti at "Gemini Customs, LLC" can be accessed thru his e-mail: yoda1911@hughes.net OR by 'phone @ 502-226-1230. His website appears to be "Down"...probably a "Domain Name" thing... Second, I believe lots of people CAN produce very good results on their own actions...but it is NOT for everyone...SOME PEOPLE can't remove a screw without "Screwing It Up"!!!...Pun INTENDED... Third, there WAS a "Drop-In Action Job" at some point in the past...the "Roller Action" from Cylinder and Slide...most of 'em were VERY GOOD...not as good as Randy's work, but better than MOST "Advanced Amateurs" could produce... Nomex Suit on...Ready for "Incoming"!!!....mikey357 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunmac Posted January 10, 2007 Author Share Posted January 10, 2007 Would the trigger job video by Jerry M be a good reference to begin with? If I were to try my home version of a trigger job I was planning on getting replacement trigger components and not damage my already broken in trigger on the guns. Is it possible to get down to a 6 or 7 pound pull on a double action revolver? As much as I like shooting the revolvers after 100 rounds I get some finger fatique and the sights do not hold steady like my Glock 34 would. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubber Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 Would the trigger job video by Jerry M be a good reference to begin with?If I were to try my home version of a trigger job I was planning on getting replacement trigger components and not damage my already broken in trigger on the guns. Is it possible to get down to a 6 or 7 pound pull on a double action revolver? As much as I like shooting the revolvers after 100 rounds I get some finger fatique and the sights do not hold steady like my Glock 34 would. Gunmac, From what I hear.. the Jerry Video would be a great reference and guide. On some Revos, L frames, 7 lbs are easily acheivable. On my Randy gun I have a heavy 4.5 lbs. It does take some getting used to but it is great, as opposed to the shooter behind it now. There are no Magic parts that I know of that can be dropped in to make you a better shooter. There are things that will enable you to see better, (sights, optic,) and the lighter actions can help you to be able to be smoother. A lot of shooting and practice with a beater is better than a great revo and no practice at all. IMHO. By the way what is broke about your trigger? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aerosigns Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 Jerry's video was excellent, and a real value. With that and a lot of help from Mike my 625 has a reliable 6.0 pull on my Lyman gauge. And the dialogue between Mike and Ken is as priceless as listening to Humphrey Bogart and Claude Rains. All masters of trigger and tongue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Round_Gun_Shooter Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 The advice so far is good but I would like to add one thing, the video and the suggestions given appear to be as related to S&W work. A Ruger is a horse of a different color so to speak. I found it is very difficult to get what we would all consider a good light and smooth action on a Ruger. There is a step you feel during the pass off from the trigger to the da sear that is very difficult to overcome. Regards, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmoney Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 And the dialogue between Mike and Ken is as priceless as listening to Humphrey Bogart and Claude Rains. All masters of trigger and tongue. Waltie, I think this is the beginning of a beautiful friendship. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waltermitty Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 And the dialogue between Mike and Ken is as priceless as listening to Humphrey Bogart and Claude Rains. All masters of trigger and tongue. Waltie, I think this is the beginning of a beautiful friendship. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hopalong Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 RGS is right! Most of the answers given seem to pertain to Smith&Wessons, and the Ruger is a "different bunch of dogs" I toyed with my GP100 (when I had it) and also my Super Redhawk (same springs in both models btw) and had my GP to a nice smooth 8 pounds. The Rugers have a coil mainspring and have this "stacking" feeling like coil springs normally do. With poshing and a Wolf reduced power spring kit (Brownells) I was able to get the GP to that 8pounds I mentioned earlier. The .454 I kept the original mainspring and changed to a lighter rebound spring,did some polishing and have a nice 2 1/2 pound Single action crisp trigger. I kept the mainspring as the gun likes Winchester primers in the load I cooked up for it. ( I shoot it some double action, but always attempt to shoot single action if I can). When I had a weak moment and traded the GP100 off, I reinstalled all the factory stuff and it felt just like any other new ruger again. Hope that helps. HOPALONG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougCarden Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 (edited) Uuuuummmm, who is Claude Rains.....was he in that movie Casablonco with Bogart..... I think you guys are dating yourselves...... DougC This from the guy who thought he scored with getting "Spaceballs" for cheap last night at the store..... Edited January 10, 2007 by DougC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubber Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 Uuuuummmm, who is Claude Rains.....was he in that movie Casablonco with Bogart..... I think you guys are dating yourselves...... DougC This from the guy who thought he scored with getting "Spaceballs" for cheap last night at the store..... Starred in "The Invisible Man" So not a good picture of him in the movie... OOOH OOOH just hit 500 posts. That is a lot for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmoney Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 Uuuuummmm, who is Claude Rains.....was he in that movie Casablonco with Bogart..... Yeah, he was the captain guy that always said, "Round up the usual suspects." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waltermitty Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 Uuuuummmm, who is Claude Rains.....was he in that movie Casablonco with Bogart..... Yeah, he was the captain guy that always said, "Round up the usual suspects." Unless it was a particularly serious issue, in which case he would round up twice the usual number of suspects. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Sinko Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 What's really annoying about the Rugers is that merely gaining access to the firing pin is beyond the ability of most shooters and even many gunsmiths. I recently incurred some serious misfire problems with my Redhawk Alpine Conversion from Hamilton Bowen. At first I thought the firing pin was getting peened and I bought one of Bowen's extra length firing pins. A highly competent local gunsmith (Pinnacle Custom) replaced the firing pin and he told me it was not an easy job. When I got the gun back it STILL misfired and gave shallow, off center hits. So I ended up having to send the gun back to TN anyway. Bowen says in his book that Redhawks very rarely go out of time so I think he will find my gun most interesting. It has seen so much live and dry fire that I have worn out one mainspring and two hammer links. To make matters worse Ruger refuses to sell major revolver components to anybody. Dave Sinko Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R112mercer Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 Waltie, I think this is the beginning of a beautiful friendship. I think you guys are dating yourselves...... If that ain't evidence I don't know what is. Doug, the correct grammar for the end of your quote should be "each other" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmoney Posted January 12, 2007 Share Posted January 12, 2007 Doug, the correct grammar for the end of your quote should be "each other" Waltermitty, pay no attention to him..........we'll always have Topeka....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waltermitty Posted January 12, 2007 Share Posted January 12, 2007 Doug, the correct grammar for the end of your quote should be "each other" Waltermitty, pay no attention to him..........we'll always have Topeka....... Ilsa: Who is Rick? Captain Renault: Mamoiselle, you are in Rick's! And Rick is... Ilsa: Who is he? Captain Renault: Well, Rick is the kind of man that... well, if I were a woman, and I were not around, I should be in love with Rick. But what a fool I am talking to a beautiful woman about another man. Captain Renault: [to Rick regarding Ilsa] She was asking about you earlier in a way that made me very jealous... Mustn't pay too much attention to old black and white movies... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubber Posted January 12, 2007 Share Posted January 12, 2007 I give up. Which one is Bogey,,, err I mean Rick...? Hmm... Carmoney in a fedora? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmoney Posted January 12, 2007 Share Posted January 12, 2007 Here's lookin' at you, kid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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