Newbie Questions

[j1b]

So I've been shooting clays the past couple of weeks and I have a couple of questions.

- What is the difference between buying a Browning Sproting Clays gun and a perazzi? Obviously price, and generally quality - but net net how much do you have to shoot in order to justify the perazzi?

- I have a beater 11-87 field gun now - it works. I've read some posts on gun options and differences - but one has to admit - O/U guns dominate. Like in IPSC - if one gun dominates there is probably a reason - can someone shed a little more light on that?

- Tournaments - are there different classes? Is is a big thing? Is it worth doing? Any experiences there would be most appreciated.

- Recommendations for my wife - I think she could enjoy doing this and any ideas there would be appreciated!

And I get the impression that the skeet range is much better to practice at than the clays field (although clays seems so much more fun) I assume 5 stand is good too??

In pistols I can generally make my way around - I appreciate any advice you guys can give me in this arena. I'm not that great - I shot for the first time last week and had a 74. Looking to improve that score!

JB

[Irishlad]

Hello,

Lot's of good questions. I'll give you my opinion but you know how opinions are...!

I have owned and shot both the Browning and Perazzi quite a bit. Both are well made, reliable and durable. The Browning is a quality, consistent ,machine made gun that works. What you see in the catalog is what you get.

Perazzi is more of a hand finished gun with a multitude of options(whatever you want) with excellent service.

Compare a well made Toyota to a Mercedes.

Justification comes if, after shooting them, you get goose bumps and you think you shoot better with it!

World championships have been won with both guns so whatever feels better! Great deals in used Perazzi's I might add.

Autoloaders win too! It's always the guy(girl) behind the gun.

Tournaments do have classes and the more of those you shoot the better you will get. Watch the better shooters and have fun.

1 oz load in your 11-87 should be very pleasant for your wife to shoot! 1150-1200 FPS is plenty.

It's cheaper and quicker to practice the fundamentals on the skeet field and apply them to the tougher sporting shots. 5-stand is very good also. Couple rounds of trap wouldn't hurt either.

Good luck

[tightloop]

Irishlad is correct when he says both Browning and Perazzi are quality guns.  Both will win.

Let's start at the beginning.  Clays was brought to the US from England and was supposed to be a game which used hunting gear; we have heard that somewhere before (IPSC).  In the beginning the stack barrel guns were the only thing to shoot from a prestige thing, but now the top pro shooters in the US shoot auto loaders.  Bobby Fowler shoots a Browning Gold because they sponsor him, but he likes Beretta 391.  He is a friend of mine and he would shoot Beretta if he could.  Scott Robertson shoots Beretta 391.  Jon Kruger shoots a K80 Krieghoff, JB Cantey shoots a 682 Beretta.  O/U have prestige and good looks, they also have recoil.  Auto loaders are ugly but don't kick as badly.

O/U enjoy a following 'cause you can choke for two different types of shots at a single station; ie, a floating incomer at 25 yds which you shoot with 9's and skeet choke, and the second shot is a hard right to left crosser at 43 yards which you take with Modified 7.5's.  With an auto loader, you pick the tighter choke and hope you can center the close shot so you have enough pellet density at 43 yards to get the crosser.

shoot some of all the disciplines, trap, skeet, 5 stand, clays and FITASC.  There are only a few basic shots you have to master, incoming & outgoing, crossers from both directions, springing teal, and rabbits.  All the rest of the presentations you see will be variations on those themes with some specialty targets thrown in for good measure.  

Whatever guns you shoot, be sure you have screw in chokes, and have shot your gun on a pattern board to see where is shoots.  If it doesn't shoot where you look you can have the stock bent to get that corrected.  If it doesn't shoot where you look it is like having a pistol with fixed sights that doesn't shoot where you want it.

I won't get into guns for your wife, but probably an autoloader, 12 ga.  Some women shoot 20 ga, but don't send a boy to do a mans job!!  Any low base shell  at 1150 or 1200 fps with hard shot will do the job.  Either 1oz or 1 1/8oz.  If you shoot 1oz you have to choke slightly tighter to compensate for lack of pellet density.

I would endorse the tape called Chokes and Loads put out by Gil Ash and Jerry Meyers.  Very informative and gives you lots of info about choke tightness and pellet size with different target presentations.

There are different classes from E, D, C, B, A, AA, Master and a breakout for Seniors over 55, Veterans over 65, Ladies, and Juniors.

If you really get into it it is about 4 or 5 times more expensive than pistols, but a lot of fun.  And after all everyting is relative, shotguns isn't nearly as costly as flying or Top Fuel Dragsters or formula 1.  Hope this helps and have fun.

[j1b]

Thanks for the advice!

I shot today - and am now thinking about quitting! I S-U-C-K-E-D sucked!

Just kidding - I won't quit - just frustrating starting out at ground zero.

I have shot trap twice in the past two years (charity event) Normally I shoot between 23 and 24 per round. The last two years I believe my average is around 23 or 23.5. Although I've never cleaned a 16 yard trap line - I seem to shoot 24 consistent.

Today (sproting clays) the stations were only slightly different and I probably expected to do better - so I shot a 60. Yep - let 40 get away. Needless to say I was not pleased.

Anyhow - That is GREAT info on the guns. I'm not much into asthetics - I just want a gun that will do the trick. I really prefer autoloaders - just logically thought there was something to an O/U. That said - I know I could easily get better with my 11-87 and I've shot quite a bit of IPSC - I definitly understand it has more to do with the shooter than the blaster.

Anyhow - I'll go practice a bit more and see if maybe I can't shoot a tournament in the next six months. I'll let you know.

If you think of anything else let me know - I'm going to start checking this forum.

Thanks again for the advice!

Jack

[tightloop]

don't feel bad about shooting a 60.  To put  it into perspective for you, think about this.  Every year at the Grand American Trap shoot in Ohio, it takes a 200 straight to get into the shootoff.  There are hundreds of shooters who get into the shootoff with a 200 straight.

Since Clays came to America in 1981, there have been less than 20 competitive rounds of 100 straight.

Personally, I have shot trap and have a long run of 252, skeet and a long run of 656.  My best at Clays is 92.   I am a low A shooter and shoot 85 or so.  On a lights out day I will have 90. On a bad day 72 or so.  Just keep trying, it is all we can do.

[EricW]

JB,

Depending on the course you're at, 60 might be a terrific score.  I've shot courses that were set up for state championships and was ecstatically happy to be in the low 60's.  My first time out, I shot a "gimmie" course with a pump gun, walked away with a 78 and was pissed for missing the ones I did.  Like golf, it's all relative.

Think of it this way.  If you're not missing, the course designer didn't do his job....  A decent course will challenge your boundaries on several presentations.  It's supposed to be a challenge...

E

[ErikW]

A 74 your first time out? I think I'm gonna cry. Last week was my fifth time and I shot 51. I'm still a newbie too but I absorbed some info...

The experts say to get an auto and shoot it until you become accomplished. At that point, get the O/U, if you think you could shoot better with it. Have the gun fit to you.

I thought the only big difference was the two chokes, but the O/Us balance and handle completely differently. If you get a heavy target O/U (esp. a SC model with the soft-shooting tricks) they do shoot surprisingly soft. But guns that don't fit right recoil more. That's why your wife should shoot a youth or ladies model, or a custom fit stock, if normal guns don't fit her.

I've read Browning has lousy service (maybe only lately) and Krieghoff has the bend-over-backward-for-you best service.

I understand skeet is better for practice than SC courses. Sort of like pistol practice with various arrays and standards is "better" than shooting a match.

[benos]

Jack,

On the O/U vs the Autoloader - for me, it's just a "feel" thing. My O/U just feels "alive" when I handle or mount it; in contrast, my 11/87 feels lifeless, kinda like a broomstick.

I'm guessing, you being a purist at heart, the utter simplicity of shooting aerial targets will really hook you, if it hasn't already.

be

[EricW]

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Quote: from benos on 3:57 pm on Dec. 17, 2002

the utter simplicity of shooting aerial targets ....

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It's simple?!?!  Guess I'd better stop making it complicated...  

[benos]

I was thinking someone might bite on that.

Yea - look at the bird!

[j1b]

Brian

A long time ago Arnt, Mike, Rob and I went down to some place in Southern AZ to shoot Clays - I don't think you were there but you may have been -

Anyhow - I shot one of Rob's Kreighof's and it was - well - supreme. I really enjoyed it and it did have a great feel to it.

I guess in some ways I want to get back to that - although that particular gun is out of the question. I've hoisted the Browning and it feels pretty decent.

You are correct - punching birds moving fast is quite simply a blast! To be honest I love the fact that I don't know what I'm doing - but still enjoying it. Busting 70 birds means I am doing something right - and a little fine tuning will make it better. All without overcomplicating things.

You are right - I am a purist at heart.

JB

[EricW]

"look at the bird!"

Well I did that, then I shot a few...then people got mad at me for some reason.  What's with all the damn frisbee thingys flying around anyway?