GlockShooter Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 Ok, I know I'm pretty new here but I have read alot of very interesting stuff on here about Zen. Now, I can see that it has alot of practical value. So, my question is this: Can I as a Christian, practice some of the attributes and attitudes of Zen? or is Zen something that you must give yourself to completely to in order to make use of it? I really am eager to know. However, I would prefer to stay away from any religious debate. Thanks in advance! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vluc Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 (edited) It's a state of mind. Preferably open. Edited January 8, 2007 by vluc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GentlemanJim Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 Take only what you need. Zen is very interesting, and has aspects that can be very usefull. You dont have to compromise your beliefs to understand it ,or make use of it. Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRe Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 It seems to me that, if anything, use of Zen principles will only enhance your spiritual experience... It strikes me that anyone who proposed differently may not actually understand spirituality.... (which seems a bit arrogant to say, but... its currently how I feel about it, so...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AikiDale Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 (edited) Find a copy of Zen and the Birds of Appetite by Thomas Merton. Merton was a Trappist monk and student of Zen. One of the chapters (you'll please forgive me for not recalling the title off the top of my head) is a discussion between Zen master D.T. Suzuki and Merton about Christianity and Zen. Edited to add: Oh yeah! To answer your question: Yes, you as a Christian may practice Zen, Za Zen, archery and even tinker with your motorcycle without sin. Edited January 8, 2007 by AikiDale Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raz-0 Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 I have been told that zen is bad, bad, bad by bible thumping sorts. Of course they knew absolutely nothing about it. Since it wasn't just me they were bothering, much discussion took place in order to educate them. In the end, although zen doesn't require you to break any of the big rules, prevent you from abiding by them, they still insisted it was a godless perversion. Personally, i file it under philiospohy rather than religion. It's an approach to being while sitll letting you be whatever you want. be that a good christian or something else. *shrug* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AikiDale Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 There are those 'true believers' who find it godless if it is not in their scriptures. But if it were not for people like that we would not have the Inquisition or the Taliban. A lot of money and power would just go to waste.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BSeevers Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 Only you know if it will be beneficial Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiG Lady Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 It's a little like being 'detached' but not in a negative way. vluc is right about the "open" part. Zen is kind-of everything and nothing... at the same time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigDave Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 There are many people who practice [worship of choice] and Zen. Take what you need and give what you can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlockShooter Posted January 9, 2007 Author Share Posted January 9, 2007 So, it's not a totally religious experience? It's more a state of awareness and consciousness, is that right? It's just I have always heard the word Zen as it relates to Buddism(unsure about the spelling there). I am not trying to insinuate that I believe the practice of Zen to be wrong, but will I reap the full benefits of Zen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AikiDale Posted January 9, 2007 Share Posted January 9, 2007 (edited) So, it's not a totally religious experience? It's more a state of awareness and consciousness, is that right? It's just I have always heard the word Zen as it relates to Buddism(unsure about the spelling there). I am not trying to insinuate that I believe the practice of Zen to be wrong, but will I reap the full benefits of Zen? Yep. There are many texts. If you sit quietly and focus your attention only on your breathing, and, when you realize your mind has wandered, refocus your attention only on your breathing, you are practicing ZaZen, or sitting Zen. This is how one begins to train the mind to pay attention. Breathing is fundamental. You will notice at first you are distracted by many things, that little voice in your head won't shut up and this is normal. Just let it go and return your attention to your breathing. Five minutes a day is plenty to start. Edited January 9, 2007 by AikiDale Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiG Lady Posted January 9, 2007 Share Posted January 9, 2007 "...but will I reap the full benefits of Zen?" That may take thousands of lifetimes........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam38 Posted January 9, 2007 Share Posted January 9, 2007 So, it's not a totally religious experience? It's more a state of awareness and consciousness, is that right? It's just I have always heard the word Zen as it relates to Buddism(unsure about the spelling there). I am not trying to insinuate that I believe the practice of Zen to be wrong, but will I reap the full benefits of Zen? Glock Shooter, Zen is one of the many sects of Buddhism. It was started in China and is practiced as a religion, today, in China, Japan and Korea. You can be a practicing Christian and still make use of the philosophical aspects of Zen. Having said that it is still a religion in the Buddhist tradition. Zen and the other Buddhist religions was what made me give up on martial arts when I was still a young man in my twenties. I found that the deeper I studied the martial arts the more relgious the study became (I was involved with Shorinji Kenpo). And, as I was and am a practicing agnostic - pretty much close to be an atheist -- I decided to give up my martial arts quest. -Sam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AikiDale Posted January 9, 2007 Share Posted January 9, 2007 (edited) So, it's not a totally religious experience? It's more a state of awareness and consciousness, is that right? It's just I have always heard the word Zen as it relates to Buddism(unsure about the spelling there). I am not trying to insinuate that I believe the practice of Zen to be wrong, but will I reap the full benefits of Zen? Glock Shooter, Zen is one of the many sects of Buddhism. It was started in China and is practiced as a religion, today, in China, Japan and Korea. You can be a practicing Christian and still make use of the philosophical aspects of Zen. Having said that it is still a religion in the Buddhist tradition. Zen and the other Buddhist religions was what made me give up on martial arts when I was still a young man in my twenties. I found that the deeper I studied the martial arts the more relgious the study became (I was involved with Shorinji Kenpo). And, as I was and am a practicing agnostic - pretty much close to be an atheist -- I decided to give up my martial arts quest. -Sam Not all martial arts are a religious study. Shorinji Kenpo in fact is the only martial art recognized in Japan as a religion. Shorinji is as you know Japanese for the Chinese Shaolin, a Buddhist monastery. Aikido, my primary martial art, has deep roots in Shinto through it's founder and the founder strictly prohibited his students from turning his Budo into a religion. If you enjoyed your study other than the religious aspects of Shorinji try another art. Edited January 9, 2007 by AikiDale Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlockShooter Posted January 9, 2007 Author Share Posted January 9, 2007 Ok, I think I understand. So basically Zen meditation is simply a way to quiet your mind, learn to focus, and be more aware. Well, I meditate this way often, but I was simply makin sure that I wasn't hindering the full effect. And by the way, your absolutely right: that little voice in my head really won't shut up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benos Posted January 13, 2007 Share Posted January 13, 2007 Ok, I think I understand. So basically Zen meditation is simply a way to quiet your mind, learn to focus, and be more aware. That's pretty much it. The Japanese word "zen" means "meditate" in English, for which "contemplate" is a good synonym. But what should we contemplate? In this case, our own mind. So to practice Zen is to contemplate our own mind. As far as adults talking about this sort of thing, if we go looking for "our mind," our thoughts, ideas, and opinions are what we will find. And if you keep after it - looking, oberserving - watching for the appearance of a single thought, you'll witness a cool phenomena. Which I could probably best describe by quoting Chinul: "Because all things originally have no mental images, in each moment of awareness, they are unborn and unperishing." (Wednesday's Maku mozo!) Chinul rocks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_kahuna Posted January 13, 2007 Share Posted January 13, 2007 PM sent. Eastern philosophical approaches need not be mutually exclusive from Western faith structures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBF Posted January 14, 2007 Share Posted January 14, 2007 Zen is not a religion . Travis F. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benos Posted January 16, 2007 Share Posted January 16, 2007 PM sent.Eastern philosophical approaches need not be mutually exclusive from Western faith structures. Zen is not a religion . +2 be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam38 Posted January 16, 2007 Share Posted January 16, 2007 PM sent. Eastern philosophical approaches need not be mutually exclusive from Western faith structures. Zen is not a religion . +2 be If Zen is not a religion why are there Buddhist Zen temples in Japan and China? -Sam Spiteri Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AikiDale Posted January 16, 2007 Share Posted January 16, 2007 If Zen is not a religion why are there Buddhist Zen temples in Japan and China?-Sam Spiteri Many Zen Buddhists would claim there can be no Zen without Buddhism. Many others would disagree. Taoism, which would be considered an outlook on life or a philosophy, met with Buddhism and the Zen method of meditation developed. Although all Zen Buddhists are religious, not all Zen practitioners are Buddhists. Or think of it this way: If Fish Fry are not a religion why are there Fish Fry at churches all over America? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_kahuna Posted January 16, 2007 Share Posted January 16, 2007 Don't know much about Zen, without having studied Zen in any depth... but my opinion is that Taoism (which is a philosophy, not a religion) is compatible with Christianity. I was recently reading Lao Tse's work, Tao Teh Ching (English translation by Hua-Ching Ni)... In many parts it closely parallels the Judeo-Christian Bible. Here's one example: Tao Te Ching, Chapter 29 ... The things of the world are constantly changing. There is a time for things to move ahead, and a following time for things to retreat; a time to withdraw internally, and a following time to expand externally; a time to grow luxuriantly, and a following time to decay; a time to rise up, and a following time to sink down low. ... Ecclesiastes, Chapter 3 (KJV) To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under heaven; A time to be born, and a time to die; A time to plant, and a time to pluck up that which is planted; A time to kill, and a time to heal; A time to break down, and a time to build up; A time to weep, and a time to laugh; A time to mourn, and a time to dance; A time to cast away stones, an time to gather stones together; A time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing; A time to get, and a time to lose; A time to keep, and a time to cast away; A time to rend, and a time to sew; a time to keep silence, and a time to speak; A time to love, and a time to hate; A time of war, and a time of peace. ... Moderators/Admins: If we are stretching or exceeding forum guidelines, please feel free to edit or delete my posts. I will be happy to take this discussion to PMs if appropriate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AikiDale Posted January 16, 2007 Share Posted January 16, 2007 I'd say that was right on topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittlePistol Posted February 11, 2007 Share Posted February 11, 2007 Please forgive my ignorance if I am incorrect in my opinion, but if Zen is an "open" state of mind, couldn't it's teachings be incorporated into one's religious beliefs, regardless of what they might be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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