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Very Specific, Simple Focus Question


Matt Griffin

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Sorry for another vision/focus question, but my searching hasn't been able to turn up this specific question:

When shooting relatively far-away targets (15yds and out) where you want a clear front sight focus, and the targets are very close together, do you perform target focus after the first target, or just keep your focus on the front sight and ride it through the array? I seem to be favoring focusing on first target, pulling back to front sight, then working the front sight focus through the "blurs" rather than focus out during transitions. This only applies to shoulder-to-shoulder target arrays.

H.

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I try to pick a spot on any target you wish to drive the sights to (big spot, little spot any spot). Distance is not the issue, the place you want to put the bullet(s) is. Find spot, shoot spot, find next spot... rinse repeat.

"Here Spot, Heel Spot, Sit Spot". :lol:

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Sorry for another vision/focus question, but my searching hasn't been able to turn up this specific question:

When shooting relatively far-away targets (15yds and out) where you want a clear front sight focus, and the targets are very close together, do you perform target focus after the first target, or just keep your focus on the front sight and ride it through the array? I seem to be favoring focusing on first target, pulling back to front sight, then working the front sight focus through the "blurs" rather than focus out during transitions. This only applies to shoulder-to-shoulder target arrays.

H.

With your mind open to subtle visual clues - keep experimenting. What you described would be similar to the Type 4 focus I explained in Practical Shooting, Beyond Fundamentals.

But keep in mind - what you remember seeing is not all you saw. In the case of closely spaced targets that require a front sight focus - it may feel like you were looking right at the front sight the whole time, but peripherally, you are finding the next target. That just happens so quickly sometimes that you can't remember it.

You may wonder why I said that. I did, after I typed it. To do something consistently and successfully, if you know you don't have to "spend" any of your attention in certain areas (like consciously seeing the next target) - then that frees up your attention so you can apply it all where it is needed. For consistent success - once you figure out how to apply your attention, then you can forget everything else.

be

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I don't like posting after Brian, as he always puts out a substantial chunk of information, and I don't want to distract from that.

I was going to suggest further experimentation and reading up on Brian's Type 4 focus...so that is cool.

Now, I'd suggest re-reading the rest of what Brian just wrote and figuring out what that means to you right now. (Right now...because a lot of his stuff means different things too me at different times.)

I read the last two paragraphs of his post about 6 or 8 times...then it clicked in for me. For me, right now, he is saying to let your body sort it out...while you pay attention to what is going on.

I was going to post something about small "muzzle bump" transitions...and, as an example, some of what I've noticed with bowling pins. But, I think I'll just let that thought go.

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... For me, right now, he is saying to let your body sort it out...while you pay attention to what is going on.

+1

I learned so many things that way. Set up a specific test - forget everything you know - then do it over and over and over, while alert, watching what is happening.

be

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I had a practice session a couple of weeks ago that is relevant to this.

There were 5 targets set up at various distances from 15m to 25m across the range. On my first couple of runs I had some misses. On my next run I told myself to slow down and get good hits. I still missed. I sat back and thought about what I had seen, then shot the stage again and let my eyes and body dictate the speed and just pay attention to what I saw. I still had misses, but I saw where they came from. It wasn't shooting 'too fast', it was from bad trigger presses. On some shots, the sight started in the right place but as I pressed the trigger it pushed the dot off target. And this was happening regardless of speed. I didn't need to alter my pace or 'try' harder to hit the targets, I had to let my eyes figure out what was happening and let my body fix it.

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Brian (and you other folks) you're a genius. I really have no idea how you covered damn near everything in your book, but you did.

I went to the range today to work on this, for about 300 rounds. First, I'd like to take back everything I have ever said on this subject in the past, I had no idea what I was talking about.

For reference, I'm pretty darn good, in my little pond. I can drive a gun very, very fast for a mediocre shooter, but my accuracy was crap, and today I finally "got" what you've been saying all along.

I think that I suffer from particularly good vision, even as I cruise into my mid-30's. My vision has always been sharp enough to work completely from target focus for the last few years, with my mind observing the sight blur sharply enough to perform well. This is, of course, completely wrong. I thought front sight focus meant front sight awareness, but it actually means focus AND awareness.

I set up 3 targets at 20 yards, so I couldn't BS any shots into the A zone. And then I slowed waaaay down. Slow draw, perfect grip, A zone firmly (I thought) in my sights, clean trigger press. I couldn't keep the shots anywhere near each other! I think that so many stages are set up at close ranges (12 yards and in) and I'm going so fast that my scores were keeping me from really paying attention to my hits. Just in the last few days have I really crunched down on sharp front sight focus with both eyes open, equivalent to what I see with one eye open, in dryfire.

Next I slowed down further (somebody stole my timer, so I can't give out any exact data) and forced myself to wait for the sharp corner of the front sight to come into focus. It took forever for the first focus to come in (probably a second after I had finished my draw and presentation) and then I started breaking shots. I lost the focus a bit after a few shots, but kept it much better than I ever have.

Whaddaya know, A hits all the time. So THAT'S what you meant by front sight focus and focus shifting. Of course I started speeding up just from a single session (love that early learning curve) and was easily running fast strings in the A zone, and seeing when my trigger/followthrough/transition put one into the C zone.

I had, up until now, been constantly messing with trigger stroke, weak hand strength, hip turning, etc. to try and bring my shots in, and the bad part was that occasionally things would improve, and I thought I had found my problem. In reality, my problem was the first and only fundamental: Align the sights, and maintain alignment through the shot. Everything else is just travelling to that point.

With the new focus, came new awareness, and suddenly shooting A zone shots at 20 yards feels like 5 yards. Of course, I've lost some speed, but that will improve as my brain and eyes learn the focus movement trick.

I'm not classified right now (work/schedule reasons), but I'm roughly a high B-low A shooter, and I can draw, reload, transition, etc. as fast as shooters above my level, I just can't score. The point is that you can go very far without doing it right!

I've overcome a HUGE hurdle today, thanks to everyone for the help.

H.

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... I still had misses, but I saw where they came from.

:lol:

... The often overlooked "If you want to fix a problem, find the source, first" (paraphrased) adage comes to mind.

In reality, my problem was the first and only fundamental: Align the sights, and maintain alignment through the shot. Everything else is just travelling to that point.

+1

First, learn how to shoot. (What calling the shot really means.)

Then develop skill in technique, which will allow you to shoot faster.

be

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First, learn how to shoot. (What calling the shot really means.)

Then develop skill in technique, which will allow you to shoot faster.

be

As I learned from BE's book a long time ago:

See What You Need to See.

If you are not getting the results you want, then you ain't seeing what you need to see.

It's just so fundamental, encompassing and absoultely amazing that it applies to every form of shooting (fast, slow, wing, precision, bull.... well you get the idea).

Everything else just seems to be simple details depending on the specific sport.....

Thanks again.

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The killer for me was switching from the slow sports to the fast sports, or from one eye to two. If you're blazing fast and inaccurate, you can still perform well (to a point) in the fast sports. All my life I only shot from the bench with one eye, and could really lay the shots in. I've just now realized that I have to do the same thing, with two eyes open, and in a fraction of a second.

Should be a fun process.

H.

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First, learn how to shoot. (What calling the shot really means.)

Then develop skill in technique, which will allow you to shoot faster.

be

As I learned from BE's book a long time ago:

See What You Need to See.

+1

See What You Need to See (to know whether or not you hit the target at the instant the shot fired).

(Said in a Steve McQueen voice) - That's all I have to say about that.

;)

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  • 5 weeks later...

First, learn how to shoot. (What calling the shot really means.)

Then develop skill in technique, which will allow you to shoot faster.

be

As I learned from BE's book a long time ago:

See What You Need to See.

If you are not getting the results you want, then you ain't seeing what you need to see.

It's just so fundamental, encompassing and absoultely amazing that it applies to every form of shooting (fast, slow, wing, precision, bull.... well you get the idea).

Everything else just seems to be simple details depending on the specific sport.....

Thanks again.

"See what you need to see" isnt that simple as it seems. Practice , practice and more practice is the key in order for you to call your shoots. As BE said that calling your shot every time is your ticket to a new world of shooting ( more or less it was said that way as I understood it) :D

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This is all excellent information. I'm still learning and trying to be more consistent. I wanted to mention something that I experience from time to time, that I'm sure many on this forum experience frequently. After doing the slow, deliberate practice, both dry fire and live fire, I've had times when my subconscience has taken over and done the shooting for me. It's almost scary in the sense that I don't feel like I made any of the shots but they'll all be in the A zone and my time will be respectable. I'm still not able to do this on demand.

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