Vanek Drop In And Lwd Connector...

[Rik]

My Vanek Drop in trigger (G-34) was breaking at 2# from reset and 2 3/4 to 3# for a full pull. I replaced the Glock 3.5# connector with one of the new LWD connectors and it's down to a consistent 1.25# break from reset. Right at 2# for full pull. This is with a RCBS spring guage. Trigger pulls are tricky, but I have repeated this about 50 times. I am very pleased with this setup.

Rik

[ryucasta]

Rik,

The new Drop-In Kits with Connector that Charlie is offering now comes with the LWD connector. I have installed it in a G35 and it’s consistently breaking at a little less than two pounds.

[Micah]

+1 for the Vanek. I switched over from the Sotello, and have been very pleased. Make sure that you carry extra trigger springs, as they are known to break.

[stubbicatt]

| am kind of new here. Where do I find these Vanek setups? Who is Charlie so I can contact him. Thanks.

Never mind... I found the information. These triggers I guess are not legal for Production class. I guess it will be Limited or Limited 10 for me then.

Edited January 14, 2007 by stubbicatt

[ryucasta]

The Drop In Kits art legal for USPSA Production.

[Clay1]

The Drop In Kits art legal for USPSA Production.

If the proposed rule changes go into effect they won't be in 2008, so take that into account before you spend a lot of money on an equipment change that very well might become illegal within a year.

The drop in parts are currently legal, but the full Vanek trigger job that had some external parts that were very slightly modified were ruled illegal. Have to be a damn lawyer to figure this stuff out these days.

Rick

[ryucasta]

If you are currently using Vanek or Sotelos Drop In Trigger Kits for USPSA Production the only thing that I can see in the proposed rules is that could impact a competitor is that they will need to change the trigger pull weight from +/- TWO POUNDS to a minimum trigger pull of THREE POUNDS aside from that I see nothing.

This change seems to be a compromise with IPSC since IPSC requires a FIVE Pound Trigger Pull for the first shot.

Whats not clear to me about the USPSA proposed rule change is does the 3 pound rule apply for all shots or is it more like the IPSC rule only for the first shot.

USPSA Handgun Rules, January 2008 Edition 54

APPENDIX D4

Production Division

1 Minimum power factor for Major Not applicable

2 Minimum power factor for Minor 125

3 Minimum bullet weight No

4 Minimum bullet caliber / cartridge case length 9mm (0.354”) / 19mm (0.748”)

5 Minimum bullet caliber for Major Not applicable

6 Minimum trigger pull Yes, 3 pounds with hammer in fully

down/decocked condition

7 Maximum size Handgun and all magazines (revolvers are exempt)

Yes, handgun with empty magazine inserted must fit wholly within a box

with internal dimensions of 8 ¾”x6”x1 5/8” (tolerance +1/16”, - 0”)

8 Maximum magazine length See # 7

9 Maximum ammunition capacity Yes, maximum 10 rounds loaded in

any magazine after the start signal

10 Max. distance of handgun and mags/speed loaders from inner side of belt Handgun 1 5/8" - Mags 1"

11 Rule 5.2.3.1 applies Yes

12 Restriction on position of holster and other equipment

(revolver speedloaders/moon clips are exempt)

Yes, see Appendix F3

13 Optical/electronic sights permitted No, notch and post only

14 Compensators permitted No

15 Barrel ports permitted No

16 Slide ports permitted Yes, on factory-original approved

models

17 Maximum weight Yes, 2 ounces over weight listed on approved pistol list

18 Handgun specific approval for Division Yes (see Special Conditions below)

19 Holster restrictions Suitable for everyday use. “Race gun” type holster prohibited.

Must carry pistol so that the front strap is at or above the top of the belt.

May not be manufactured or cut lower than, and must cover the slide up to, ½” below

the ejection port (belt slide “Yaqui” type holster exempt).

Revolver holsters open no lower than halfway down the cylinder.

20 Authorized modifications (Strictly limited to these items and their stated guidelines)

Internal throating and polishing to improve accuracy, reliability and function

Sights – trimmed, adjusted, replaced, colored, or fiber-optic.

Slide – refinishing. Milling of slide – only as required to insert sights.

After-market slides and barrels – provided they are the same length, contour, and

caliber as original factory standard.

Grips – Checkered or stippled. Internal beveling, addition of grip tape or grip sleeve.

Exchange of minor components (springs, safeties, slide stops, guide rods).

21 Specifically prohibited modifications and features

Prototype and Single-Action-Only handguns.

External modifications or features such as weights or devices to control or reduce

recoil (such as, but not limited to, thumb rests or components which could be used as such).

Grips - Any added material which changes the factory profile or adds function such as

beavertail or thumb rest.

External plugs (such as Seattle Slug).

No magwell attachments or external flaring of the magwell. The lateral width of the

well may not be more than 1/4" wider than the lateral width of the magazine.

Special conditions:

• Handguns with external hammers must be fully decocked at the start signal.

• Unless specifically authorized above, modifications are prohibited.

• A handgun may be approved and added to the USPSA Approved Production Handgun List after the

NROI Manufacturer’s Declaration form stating that a minimum of 2000 have been manufactured and

available to the general public has been submitted and NROI has inspected the handgun for

compliance.

IPSC Rules

Production Division

1 Minimum power factor for Major Not applicable

2 Minimum power factor for Minor 125

3 Minimum bullet weight No

4 Minimum bullet caliber / cartridge case length 9mm (0.354”) / 19mm (0.748”)

5 Minimum bullet caliber for Major Not applicable

6 Minimum trigger pull (see Appendix F2) 2.27 kg (5lbs) for first shot

7 Maximum handgun size Maximum barrel length 127mm (5”)

8 Maximum magazine length Yes, see below.

9 Maximum ammunition capacity No

10 Max. distance of handgun and mags/speed loaders from torso 50mm

11 Rule 5.2.3.1 applies Yes

12 Restriction on position of holster and other equipment Yes, see below.

13 Optical/electronic sights permitted No

14 Compensators, sound and/or flash suppressors permitted No

15 Ports permitted No

Special conditions:

16. Only handguns approved and listed on the IPSC website may be used in Production Division.

17. Single-action-only handguns are prohibited. Handguns with external hammers must be fully decocked. First

shot attempted must be double action. Competitors in this Division who, after the issuance of the start signal and

prior to attempting the first shot, cock the hammer on a handgun which has a loaded chamber, will incur one

procedural penalty per occurrence. Note that a procedural penalty will not be assessed in respect of courses of

fire where the ready condition requires the competitor to prepare the handgun with an empty chamber. In these

cases, the competitor may fire the first shot single action.

18. Neither the handgun, nor any of its attachments, nor any allied equipment (e.g. magazines or other loading

devices), can extend forward of the line illustrated in Appendix F3. Any such items a Range Officer deems not

to be in compliance must be safely and promptly adjusted, failing which Rule 6.2.5.1 will apply.

19. Original parts and components offered by the OFM as standard equipment, or as an option, for a specific model

handgun on the IPSC approved handgun list are permitted, subject to the following:

19.1 Modifications to them, other than minor detailing, are prohibited. Prohibited modifications include

changing the original color and/or finish of a handgun, and/or adding stripes or other embellishments.

19.2 Base plates and/or any other devices which provide additional ammunition capacity (e.g. “+2” magazine

extensions), are prohibited.

19.3 Sights may be trimmed, adjusted and/or have sight black applied.

20. Aftermarket parts, components and accessories are prohibited, except as follows:

20.1 Aftermarket magazines which match the external dimensions of standard magazines offered by the OFM

for the approved handgun are permitted.

20.2 Aftermarket sights of the same type and kind offered by the OFM for the approved handgun are

permitted, provided their installation and/or adjustment requires no alteration to the handgun.

20.3 Aftermarket grips which match the profile of the OFM standard for the approved handgun and/or the

application of tape on grips is permitted, however, rubber sleeves are prohibited.

21. A competitor who fails to comply with any of the requirements above will be subject to Rule 6.2.5.1

[Clay1]

Whats not clear to me about the USPSA proposed rule change is does the 3 pound rule apply for all shots or is it more like the IPSC rule only for the first shot.

This is cut and paste from the proposed rules:

"APPENDIX F2

Trigger Pull Testing Procedure

When a minimum trigger pull is required by a Division, handguns will be tested as follows:

1. The unloaded handgun will be prepared as if the handgun is ready to fire a double action shot;

2. The trigger weight or scale will be attached as closely as possible to the center of the trigger face;

3. The trigger of the handgun must either:

(a) Raise and hold a 3-lb (1.36 kg) weight when the muzzle of the handgun is pointed vertically

skywards and the handgun is gently raised, or

( Register not less than 3-lb (1.36 kg) on a scale using the procedure specified by the Range

Master;

4. One of the above tests will be conducted a maximum of 3 times;

5. If the hammer or striker does not fall on any 1 of the 3 attempts in 3(a) above, or if the scale registers

not less than 3-lb (1.36 kg) in 3( above, the handgun has passed the test.

6. If the hammer or striker falls on all three (3) attempts in 3(a) above, or if the scale registers less than 3-

lb (1.36 kg) in 3( above, the handgun has failed the test and Rule 6.2.5.1 will apply."

In other words the 3 pound thing is for the first shot only so if your tricked out DA can shoot the first shot at 5.5 pounds and the single actions shots are at 1.5 pounds you are still OK. If you are a Glock shooter or a XD shooter you are stuck at the 3 pound or heavier for all shots. I know that this is a double action division, but the Glocks and XDs have been here all along. I've said this before and it fits on this thread very well. I think that this ruling is a direct result of the original Vanek trigger modification and the ruling that took place. Most if not all of those people on the BOD do not shoot production and I think that this mod surprised them. It is a Billy Wilson type of thing of trying to get back to what the purpose of the division was suppose to be. the major problem that I have with it, centers around stability of the rules. I'm not in favor of the 3 pound trigger rule. I shoot a Ralph S. trigger in my G34 and really don't want to change everything around to go back to 3 pounds.

Rick

Note: when I did the cut and paste from the rulebook whatever punctuation was used in the rulebook this bulletin board software put the smiley faces in there. They obviously weren't there in the rulebook. The punctuation is suppose to be a "B" in parentheses.

Edited January 14, 2007 by Clay1

[ryucasta]

Clay,

I posted a question on the NROI section of the USPSA Forum regarding Trigger Pull Weights as it applies to the Production Division proposed rule changes. I'm hoping someone from the BOD will respond and if they do we will then have a definitive answer.

Edited January 14, 2007 by ryucasta

[Clay1]

Clay,

I posted a question on the NROI section of the USPSA Forum regarding Trigger Pull Weights as it applies to the Production Division proposed rule changes. I'm hoping someone from the BOD will respond and if they do we will then have a definitive answer.

Not that I have an answer, but what was your question. The above that I cut and pasted from the rule book speaks to using a trigger weight or scale. The NRA makes a trigger weight like this one from Brownells: http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/store/Pro...R+WEIGHT+SYSTEM

It said that you could also use a different scale. I shoot rimfire silhouette and the trigger scale as above is used at matches. The weight requirement in my division for rimfire silhouette is 2 pounds and the Anschutz that I shoot is set at 18 oz so that I don't run into any problems at different clubs.

The one concern that I have is that a Glock trigger is difficult to measure from the center of the trigger in that the center will not depress the trigger safety that is a fundamental part of the Glock trigger group.

I'd be interersted to hear your original question.

Rick

[stubbicatt]

The one concern that I have is that a Glock trigger is difficult to measure from the center of the trigger in that the center will not depress the trigger safety that is a fundamental part of the Glock trigger group.

I'd be interersted to hear your original question.

Rick

Perhaps they can use some sort of tape to depress the trigger safety bar so that it is disengaged and then weigh the trigger?

[Clay1]

The one concern that I have is that a Glock trigger is difficult to measure from the center of the trigger in that the center will not depress the trigger safety that is a fundamental part of the Glock trigger group.

I'd be interersted to hear your original question.

Rick

Perhaps they can use some sort of tape to depress the trigger safety bar so that it is disengaged and then weigh the trigger?

I was thinking along the same lines but using some kind of small rubber band that would depress the trigger safety.

Again, I hope that the change doesn't go through.

Rick

[Suburban Commando]

The one concern that I have is that a Glock trigger is difficult to measure from the center of the trigger in that the center will not depress the trigger safety that is a fundamental part of the Glock trigger group.

I'd be interersted to hear your original question.

Rick

Perhaps they can use some sort of tape to depress the trigger safety bar so that it is disengaged and then weigh the trigger?

I was thinking along the same lines but using some kind of small rubber band that would depress the trigger safety.

Again, I hope that the change doesn't go through.

Rick

The rubber bands used for braces would probably work great.

[Clay1]

The one concern that I have is that a Glock trigger is difficult to measure from the center of the trigger in that the center will not depress the trigger safety that is a fundamental part of the Glock trigger group.

I'd be interersted to hear your original question.

Rick

Perhaps they can use some sort of tape to depress the trigger safety bar so that it is disengaged and then weigh the trigger?

I was thinking along the same lines but using some kind of small rubber band that would depress the trigger safety.

Again, I hope that the change doesn't go through.

Rick

The rubber bands used for braces would probably work great.

My kid has those, I should probably appropriate some for shooting.

I'm still against the trigger pull rule but I took my Glock trigger and checked the weight a couple of times this weekend on the same scale that I use for Rimfire silhouette shooting and feel confident that it is very accurate. I usually check the weight of my Glock triggers on the very tip of the trigger very close to the trigger guard. It was as before and broke at 2 1/4 pounds. I decided to see how much of a difference it would make if you measured from the center of the trigger as in the proposed rules. My trigger now broke at a consistant 3.5 pounds. The new rules won't effect my set up but I am still against it. When you measure your trigger pull do it per the new regs and not how you have done it in the past is my comment.

Rick

[Suburban Commando]

I got a Lyman digital pull gauge and tested the LW connector against the Scherer that came with the Vanek kit.

The LW connector I used is the one pictured in the link below. I know that LW has made a couple different versions.

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/...leitemid=358424

With Both connectors, I measured about 2 lb. 10 oz. The Scherer measured slightly lower on average. All my measurements were for a full pull, although I added a pre-travel stop to the ejector/trigger housing. I didn't think to check from reset until I revisited the thread. Oops!

[Trey1975]

I got a Lyman digital pull gauge and tested the LW connector against the Scherer that came with the Vanek kit.

The LW connector I used is the one pictured in the link below. I know that LW has made a couple different versions.

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/...leitemid=358424

With Both connectors, I measured about 2 lb. 10 oz. The Scherer measured slightly lower on average. All my measurements were for a full pull, although I added a pre-travel stop to the ejector/trigger housing. I didn't think to check from reset until I revisited the thread. Oops!

I love my Vanek Trigger!