rooster Posted January 3, 2007 Share Posted January 3, 2007 I just started loading for .40 as I just purchased a sti eagle 5.1 pistol. As I started looking at all the load data I see a huge difference in oal for this round. I have seen as low as 1.115 all the way to 1.220. Why the big difference? The load data in the factory manuals give a max oal of 1.135. What is the benefit to loading long and can I do it my new pistol? My load at present is a 185 gr precision bullet over 4.0 tg at a oal of 1.135. I plan on switching over to a 180 gr zero next week. I haven't had time to chrono yet but will do so in the near future, so I wanted to start a little low for now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ihatepickles Posted January 3, 2007 Share Posted January 3, 2007 The STI frame is large enough to accommodate a .45 ACP round. The .45 is a longer cartridge than the .40 so sometimes .40's and 9mm's don't feed as reliably due to all of the extra room between the magazine and the feedramp. So by loading the round longer, the cartridge is more self-guiding and usually feeds more reliably. Loading long helps reliability. There's another benefit, using faster powders. The consensus is the the softest recoil comes from a heavy bullet and a fast powder. Using Titegroup and VV-320 at SAAMI spec length loaded to major velocity is too close to the edge for me. Loading the same powders to major velocity at > 1.170" doesn't show any pressure signs in my guns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSMITH Posted January 3, 2007 Share Posted January 3, 2007 They tend to feed a little better from the long magazines of an STI at long lengths, and pressures are somewhat reduced from the shorter loads. The long loads are a little more forgiving than short loads, though there really isn't anything forgiving about 40. If your gun will run the short loads well load them and shoot them that way. I use a different powder and do not want my major loads in anything but an STI. I load them at 1.180" or longer, that way they won't even fit in a standard 40 magazine. This way should I ever make a mistake and mix ammo up I can't load it and shoot it in a gun I don't want that ammo in. 1.180" is a good compromise length. Before you load ammo long load ONE at the target OAL and drop it in your barrel. Make SURE it won't engage the rifling, if it does there will be a pressure spike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoshidaex Posted January 3, 2007 Share Posted January 3, 2007 +1 to what HSMITH and ihatepickles said. Mostly for feed issues and so i can use a faster powder at major PF levels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aircooled6racer Posted January 3, 2007 Share Posted January 3, 2007 Hello: I can understand the loading long to help the feeding if your pistol will not take factory length loads. I can also understand if you are loading high pressure loads to load them longer. What about minor loads using Tite Group? I load 155 grain Precision bullet with 3.5 grains of Tite Group and a OAL of 1.135. It feeds fine and is very soft. I have not tried Clays with the 40 but that may be a powder for the longer length? The reason I ask is that I want to load for my STI 2011 and my single stack using the same loads. Does that sound stupid? I hate changing the seating die. Thanks Eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckS Posted January 3, 2007 Share Posted January 3, 2007 Hello: I can understand the loading long to help the feeding if your pistol will not take factory length loads. I can also understand if you are loading high pressure loads to load them longer. What about minor loads using Tite Group? I load 155 grain Precision bullet with 3.5 grains of Tite Group and a OAL of 1.135. It feeds fine and is very soft. I have not tried Clays with the 40 but that may be a powder for the longer length? The reason I ask is that I want to load for my STI 2011 and my single stack using the same loads. Does that sound stupid? I hate changing the seating die. Thanks Eric Get yourself one of these Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoshidaex Posted January 3, 2007 Share Posted January 3, 2007 (edited) Get yourself one of these oh yeah!!! one of those. So nice, but kinda pricey for the average shooter. But then again, people here aren't your average shooter right Chuck? Minor loads, loaded long work fine also. But the problems I have with TG, long OAL and minor PF results in mucho unburnt powder. TG is pretty clean at major PF levels. Though not as clean as Clays, long OAL, major PF. I won't go near a major PF, clays load, short OAL. Edited January 3, 2007 by yoshidaex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aircooled6racer Posted January 3, 2007 Share Posted January 3, 2007 Hello: I have the Redding bullet seater or the Hornady bullet seater in the budget. The Redding I am going to get from Dillon. I still have not decided which seater is better yet. I just have to sell the Dillon Square deal first and buy another press ;-). Does anyone have a clays major and minor load loading to 1.180 using either a 155 or 185 grain bullet? Thanks for all the help. Eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BSeevers Posted January 3, 2007 Share Posted January 3, 2007 (edited) Long .40 OAL started because when it came out, people were blowing up their guns and just having issues. The PF was 175 and there weren't very many good powders. Glock's were catching on and blowing up, but they weren't the only ones. Long was an attempt to stay with fastest powders, heavy bullets. 200+ gr bullets were in vogue for a while too. I load regular OAL and it does fine. Nothing wrong with long if that's what you want to do and it's necessary for certain combos. Edited January 3, 2007 by BSeevers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlin Orr Posted January 3, 2007 Share Posted January 3, 2007 Hello: I have the Redding bullet seater or the Hornady bullet seater in the budget. The Redding I am going to get from Dillon. I still have not decided which seater is better yet. I just have to sell the Dillon Square deal first and buy another press ;-). Does anyone have a clays major and minor load loading to 1.180 using either a 155 or 185 grain bullet? Thanks for all the help. Eric Read here for answers to your question. Bottom line is pick again for major PF. IMO anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aircooled6racer Posted January 3, 2007 Share Posted January 3, 2007 Hello: No Clays for me then! I'll stick with Tite Group and use the clays for the 45. Anyone using 155 grain bullets for major? Thanks Eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Moneypenny Posted January 3, 2007 Share Posted January 3, 2007 If your gun feeds short ammo that's fine. Your biggest difference in the OAL of the many things you look at are the shape of the bullets, though that is more prevelent in 9mm it does happen in 40's too.. your bullet can be a lot longer if you haveenough ojive (angle) that it doesnt' touch the riflings until like 2/3 of the bullet is in the bbl already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adiksaputok Posted January 3, 2007 Share Posted January 3, 2007 +1 for feed issue. from what i heard if it is longer it is less likely to cause a feeding jam since the head is already on the ramp and when you are using a shorter ammo on an s_i magazines some bullets tends to dive down. i load mine 1175 on para and 1200 on my sti Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aircooled6racer Posted January 3, 2007 Share Posted January 3, 2007 Hello: When I first made my STI 2011 I had feeding problems so I loaded long 1.180 thanks to Benny Hill and Merlin. I kept shooting and watching what was happening and lightened the springs on the AFTEC extractor then all the problems went away with the long loads. I tried some factory loads and I had feeding problems again. I then decided to recut the ramp angle (whats a $200 barrel-right). It now feeds everything down to 1.100. Life is good. I was just looking for a really good explanation on why to load long or a really good lie ;-). Thanks Eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasonub Posted January 4, 2007 Share Posted January 4, 2007 im down to 1160 without pressure signs using 180 gr heads and N320. Came from 1.210 but it was eating a lot of powder. thus i went down to 1180, now 1160. ill go down to 1150 soon. If i experience any failures/pressure signs ill stick to 1160 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hitman Posted January 4, 2007 Share Posted January 4, 2007 There you have it. Reliability in some pistols Pressure issues Glad mine will feed anything, but then again thats the way I built it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harmon Posted January 21, 2007 Share Posted January 21, 2007 i built a bushing barrel limited gun that will feed empty brass from a mag. it shoots ammo from 1.125 to 1.220 w/o troubles....it just keeps running. Harmon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TCK Posted January 21, 2007 Share Posted January 21, 2007 I shoot an STI and my wife shoots an XD and I load just over factory so that our major ammo is interchangable. Short loads feed fine in my gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryucasta Posted January 21, 2007 Share Posted January 21, 2007 Here's what the Laser Cast reloading manual has to say about 40 S&W Long Loaded. lasercast0001.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted January 22, 2007 Share Posted January 22, 2007 1911 guns are built for 1.260" ammo. Most will shoot the shorter 1.135" .40 or 1.140" 9mm ammo but work better with longer ammo. I've used .40s at 1.160" for years. Mine will shoot the factory 1.135" but not all the guns are 100%. We loaded the 180s to over 1000 fps back when the pf was 175. It wasn't required to load long to get that but it sure helped with some of the powders used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Spiess Posted January 29, 2007 Share Posted January 29, 2007 1.180" is a good compromise length. Before you load ammo long load ONE at the target OAL and drop it in your barrel. Make SURE it won't engage the rifling, if it does there will be a pressure spike. Easy way to check that it isn't getting to the rifling? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MustangGreg66 Posted May 19, 2008 Share Posted May 19, 2008 I just measured COL in my Glock loads and noticed I was at the max of 1.135", I don't really know why I set it there, but I was wondering in a stock barrel where my true max COL would be? If I keep loading like this am I running the rist of having the COL being to long and the bullet jam into the riflings? I don't think I'd load any longer, but I was just wondering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rr4406pak Posted May 19, 2008 Share Posted May 19, 2008 (edited) Just finished reading that Laser Cast loading manual blurb. It says, "IPSC competitors bypassing the .45 for the .40 are willing to sacrifice a degree of accuracy..." What the ??? Does that make sense to anyone? The author seemed very anti run & gun action pistol shooting. His tone was very condescending. Pulling a tooth for 5% better scores?... Come on... Edited May 19, 2008 by rr4406pak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sargenv Posted May 19, 2008 Share Posted May 19, 2008 I tend to load to 1.175" to give me some breathing room in cases my loads creep forward under recoil. I was loading them for my Para to 1.190" but if they crept forward it would turn te magazine into a morocco and not feed ammo. For my Sig 229 I load to 1.135 and it likes that just fine also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harmon Posted May 20, 2008 Share Posted May 20, 2008 positives for loading long Better feed geometry in 1911/2011 guns lower pressures Negatives: More powder consumption More recoil (mathematically it is impossible to add powder(the same powder anyways) and not add recoil. remember, burning gases have weight and energy too, more powder=more recoil) i have loaded over 100,000 major 40 caliber rounds at 1.135 or shorter OAL with various powders and have not had a negative result so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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