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Xd In Ssp


steel1212

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Maybe when the BATFE decides it is a double action pistol, which it isnt...

Neither is a glock or MP. You can't keep pulling the trigger and a hammer keep falling. Its as much a double action as the glock or MP.

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Neither is a glock or MP. You can't keep pulling the trigger and a hammer keep falling. Its as much a double action as the glock or MP.

By that logic, all striker fired guns go, except for the P99!

A while back, Ken Hackathorn did a piece on the XD in the Tactical Journal. In it, he defines double action as a trigger mechanism that does two things: cocking the firing mechanism, and then releasing it.

The glock (in stock form) pulls back the striker from a partially-cocked position all the way back, and then released the striker. Two actions. The XD's striker is all the way back when the slide is brought into battery; all the trigger does is release the striker. Single action.

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Neither is a glock or MP. You can't keep pulling the trigger and a hammer keep falling. Its as much a double action as the glock or MP.

By that logic, all striker fired guns go, except for the P99!

yup, to me a double action gun is a gun that has a hammer that is fully controled by the the trigger like a beretta/sig. Yes I shoot the XD in production because I can, I shoot in ESP in IDPA because I have to.

I guess by that definition though it is a single action by definition. I guess I'll continue to "cheat" in production. :D

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Neither is a glock or MP. You can't keep pulling the trigger and a hammer keep falling. Its as much a double action as the glock or MP.

By that logic, all striker fired guns go, except for the P99!

yup, to me a double action gun is a gun that has a hammer that is fully controled by the the trigger like a beretta/sig. Yes I shoot the XD in production because I can, I shoot in ESP in IDPA because I have to.

I guess by that definition though it is a single action by definition. I guess I'll continue to "cheat" in production. :D

We don't cheat!! We take full advantage of the rules!!! :D:P

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Neither is a glock or MP. You can't keep pulling the trigger and a hammer keep falling. Its as much a double action as the glock or MP.

By that logic, all striker fired guns go, except for the P99!

yup, to me a double action gun is a gun that has a hammer that is fully controled by the the trigger like a beretta/sig. Yes I shoot the XD in production because I can, I shoot in ESP in IDPA because I have to.

I guess by that definition though it is a single action by definition. I guess I'll continue to "cheat" in production. :D

We don't cheat!! We take full advantage of the rules!!! :D:P

+1000

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  • 2 weeks later...

IMNSHO, IDPA should do one of two things with Striker fired guns. They should either exclude all striker fired guns from SSP and move them to ESP or CDP depending on caliber, or they should allow all striker fired handguns in SSP. This feast or famine approach is really silly regardless of what Ken Hackathorn thinks.

The fact that the ATF classifies the XD as a single action firearm has little to do with the rational behind excluding single actions from SSP in the first place. Allownig the XD to compete in SSP will not create an unfair advantage over the other firearms in the division and it won't start an equipment race.

Either let all of the or keep all of them out. To say that a tuned XD has any sort of advantage over a tuned Glock or M&P is laughable. Striker fired guns in general have an advantage over your traditional (true) double action guns.

Edited by rubberneck
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The fact that the ATF classifies the XD as a single action firearm has little to do with the rational behind excluding single actions from SSP in the first place. Allownig the XD to compete in SSP will not create an unfair advantage over the other firearms in the division and it won't start an equipment race.

Either let all of the or keep all of them out. To say that a tuned XD has any sort of advantage over a tuned Glock or M&P is laughable. Striker fired guns in general have an advantage over your traditional (true) double action guns.

Sorry to say, but the race is already on. Our club saw a huge influx of XD's, complete with the Canyon Creek trigger job, a few months after they hit the market. Now that the M&P's are available, I'm seeing more and more shooters bring those too. If IDPA allowed the XD into SSP, there most certainly would be a rush to buy them buy any shooter that had a TRUE double action pistol (Sig, HK, and, Walther P99 :-) and so on).

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When springfield makes them pull the striker rearward!

seriously they marketed the gun as single action when it came out. that's why it was tossed in ESP,

SSP is going ot have to do something about the triggers at some point too, it's not right for a 2 pound all the time glock trigger to compete against a DA/SA gun especially with the lower round count there in IDPA.

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Sorry to say, but the race is already on. Our club saw a huge influx of XD's, complete with the Canyon Creek trigger job, a few months after they hit the market. Now that the M&P's are available, I'm seeing more and more shooters bring those too. If IDPA allowed the XD into SSP, there most certainly would be a rush to buy them buy any shooter that had a TRUE double action pistol (Sig, HK, and, Walther P99 :-) and so on).

I could not disagree more. What is so special about the XD? From where I sit the XD doesn't offer a competitor any advantage over another striker fired pistol. I have had the chance to play with a G35 with a Vanek trigger job and an XD45 with a action enhancement by the Springfield custom shop. Both were fantastic but only one is legal for SSP and the other isn't. Other than the fact that the ATF designates one a SA and the other a DA what is the difference?

There will always be guys that go out and spend the money on the latest and greatest gizmo, myself included, but you can't say with a straight face that the XD represents any more of a threat to the equipment arms race than a Glock already does. If the Glock and M&P are legal then there is no reason why the XD shouldn't be allowed to play.

More importantly I think you missed my point in my first post. If you and HQ are really worried that the Glock, XD and M&P are that much of a threat to the true double action guns (double strike) then move them all to ESP. IMHO, it is the height of folly to bar the XD from SSP because it doesn't cock the striker before firing while allowing guns that only cock the striker a fraction of an inch. The XD trigger system offers a competitor no advantage what so ever over other striker fired guns. Either include the gun or remove all other guns that are more or less the same.

Edited by rubberneck
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Sorry to say, but the race is already on. Our club saw a huge influx of XD's, complete with the Canyon Creek trigger job, a few months after they hit the market. Now that the M&P's are available, I'm seeing more and more shooters bring those too. If IDPA allowed the XD into SSP, there most certainly would be a rush to buy them buy any shooter that had a TRUE double action pistol (Sig, HK, and, Walther P99 :-) and so on).

I could not disagree more. What is so special about the XD? From where I sit the XD doesn't offer a competitor any advantage over another striker fired pistol. I have had the chance to play with a G35 with a Vanek trigger job and an XD45 with a action enhancement by the Springfield custom shop. Both were fantastic but only one is legal for SSP and the other isn't. Other than the fact that the ATF designates one a SA and the other a DA what is the difference?

There will always be guys that go out and spend the money on the latest and greatest gizmo, myself included, but you can't say with a straight face that the XD represents any more of a threat to the equipment arms race than a Glock already does. If the Glock and M&P are legal then there is no reason why the XD shouldn't be allowed to play.

More importantly I think you missed my point in my first post. If you and HQ are really worried that the Glock, XD and M&P are that much of a threat to the true double action guns (double strike) then move them all to ESP. IMHO, it is the height of folly to bar the XD from SSP because it doesn't cock the striker before firing while allowing guns that only cock the striker a fraction of an inch. The XD trigger system offers a competitor no advantage what so ever over other striker fired guns. Either include the gun or remove all other guns that are more or less the same.

This is kind of my feeling on it.

Damn guys I didn't know this would open a can of worms sorry I asked.

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Sorry to say, but the race is already on. Our club saw a huge influx of XD's, complete with the Canyon Creek trigger job, a few months after they hit the market. Now that the M&P's are available, I'm seeing more and more shooters bring those too. If IDPA allowed the XD into SSP, there most certainly would be a rush to buy them buy any shooter that had a TRUE double action pistol (Sig, HK, and, Walther P99 :-) and so on).

I could not disagree more. What is so special about the XD? From where I sit the XD doesn't offer a competitor any advantage over another striker fired pistol. I have had the chance to play with a G35 with a Vanek trigger job and an XD45 with a action enhancement by the Springfield custom shop. Both were fantastic but only one is legal for SSP and the other isn't. Other than the fact that the ATF designates one a SA and the other a DA what is the difference?

There will always be guys that go out and spend the money on the latest and greatest gizmo, myself included, but you can't say with a straight face that the XD represents any more of a threat to the equipment arms race than a Glock already does. If the Glock and M&P are legal then there is no reason why the XD shouldn't be allowed to play.

More importantly I think you missed my point in my first post. If you and HQ are really worried that the Glock, XD and M&P are that much of a threat to the true double action guns (double strike) then move them all to ESP. IMHO, it is the height of folly to bar the XD from SSP because it doesn't cock the striker before firing while allowing guns that only cock the striker a fraction of an inch. The XD trigger system offers a competitor no advantage what so ever over other striker fired guns. Either include the gun or remove all other guns that are more or less the same.

This is kind of my feeling on it.

Damn guys I didn't know this would open a can of worms sorry I asked.

Steel!! NO NO don't ever appologize for opening a can of worms!! Sometimes it helps open people's eyes to a problem the rest of us just don't want to deal wtih! I say good on you!

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So why did USPSA allow this single-action gun into

Production?

I can't modify the grip on my Glock, but what the hell, let's allow a single action gun?

Tom, don't tell me you think your Glock isn't a single action either... It sure as heck isn't a double action.

IMNSHO, IDPA should do one of two things with Striker fired guns. They should either exclude all striker fired guns from SSP and move them to ESP or CDP depending on caliber, or they should allow all striker fired handguns in SSP.

... but that is just too logical.

Remember the single action rules were meant to exclude guns (JMB designed), not include common guns or accomodate for progress.

Edited by Loves2Shoot
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