Reengagement To Avoid Penalties?

[mike4045]

I recently shot an IDPA match. On a stage it was required to shot a target thru a port. I shot it when moving to the port since it was wide open. I then reengaged it correctly thru the port. Would the penalty still count since I did reengage thru the correct port? If it does count then it would be faster to leave it since you get the penalty anyway.

I am just getting back into shooting IDPA and am not clear on how this applies. My 12 and 14 yr old are starting to shoot also and I want to make sure they get the rules right.

[kdmoore]

mike,

Ask for this to be moved into the IDPA forum section (this is cof discussion), and you'll get more folks looking at this.

Likely you are going to get a judgement call from many SO's (that's the reality) so it'll depend some on the situation. What I mean is this. If the port forced you to make a more difficult shot, then you may get penalized. If it's all the same and you made it more difficult by shooting on the move, you may get a "you already penalized yourself" no call.

The way I read it, the cof tells you where to engage (and thereby where not to engage), so you earned a procedural. You'd get a procedural from me.

[yoshidaex]

now that i think about it IDPA sure takes quite a lot of the creativity out of freestyle shooting

iirc the penalty still applies even if you engage it a second time thru the correct port/window/opening. probably would have been faster for you to have moved on without re-engaging. you got your required 2 hits on the target plus the procedural. unless it specifically states "if the target is not engaged from the proper port, the hits don't count". which brings up another question, if you don't engage the target thru the port and engage it from somewhere other than the port, are you shooting at a "imaginary wall" thereby your hits wouldn't even be on the target and you need to re-engage again?

one scenario where it would be beneficial to reengage a target to negate the procedural is when the course requires you to take low cover (knee on the ground) but you engage the target while squatting (If you fail to correct it before you move on, you'll get a procedural). Hopefully by your second shot you'll have realized your mistake and you'll take the knee and reengage the target with 2 more shots. Me, I usually forget and just keep chugging along. When I'm finished they tell me of my procedural and DOH!! oh well. serves me right for trying to go thru the COF too fast.

i used to shoot IDPA exclusively. I enjoyed the "shoot it this way, not that way" scenario. Simple and it let me go fast as possible within the COF. USPSA/IPSC was a whole different story. Shoot it within the course description. Talk about confusing for the first few matches . now the whole freedom to shoot it the way you want is sooo much more challenging and a lot more fun.

[Joe D]

It all depends on how the stage description was written. If the window had a description like P2 and you were told to shoot target whatever from P2 then you should get a Procedural. If you were told to just shoot target whatever through the window and you shot the target, using cover, as you approached the window then no Procedural.

If the stage was set up where you could see the target through the window after engaging another target then you should shoot the target as you are exposed to the threat. Proper target placement makes that problem go away.

I tend to set up my IDPA stages with choices. I usually will have more than one way to shoot the stage. That will sometimes make the IDPA purists cringe but that's to bad.

Edited December 30, 2006 by Joe D

[yoshidaex]

Joe,

at least you're making it interesting for everyone while adhereing to the rules.

[Jim Watson]

The stage was poorly laid out, requiring you to remember to shoot a target from one position when it is visible from elsewhere is not good. There ought to have been a screen or non-threat placement to MAKE you shoot the target through the port.

That said, you cannot commit a Procedural Error and then wipe it out by going back and shooting it "right." I see a lot of people, when told to shoot a batch of targets in Tactical Sequence, start in double tapping, realize their mistake, and go back and reshoot each target. Sorry, the P.E. penalty still applies.

[mike4045]

It was an open target from any spot on the range. It was the 2nd target in the series. You would have to skip it and engage other targets to be able to shoot it when you were supposed to. It was actually about a yd or 2 further away than the 2 other targets.

Wouldn't it be better to cover it with a no shoot, to force you to shoot it from only one position. Seems like it would work better than leaving a completely open target directly in front of you.

Mike

[RickB]

Poor course design. Ideally, targets should be available only from where they are to be engaged. The reality is, that you don't have all day to set up a stage, so adding "shoot only" verbiage to the course description can suffice, but not always.

[COF]

I'll add my call for PP stage design - I know, I've set up my share and had shooters engage target other than where I wanted them to because they were visible from another point. It doesn't take but a couple minutes to set up a no shoot or a vision barrier so the shooters can only engage from a certain point.

Telling shooters where they can engage a target is fine for standards or skill tests, but usually doesn't give the desired results in a scenario stage.