Another Interesting Rule Change

[open17]

Title: 10.2.1

Date of Motion: 12/02/06 02:02 PM

Closed: 12/05/06 12:00 AM

Submitted by: Area8

Seconded by: Area5

Status: Posted

Result: Passed

Motion: "Area 8 moves to amend Rule 10.2.1 by adding ""or an object"" in the first sentence as follows: ""A competitor who fires shots while any part of their body is touching the ground or an object beyond a Fault or Charge Line will receive 1 procedural penalty for each occurrence."" "

Votes: Rollcall not requested

So---you have a wall on the 180 line, with a fault line on each end extending rearward.

Fault lines are set one foot in from the ends of the walls, intent being to force the shooter

to lean W-A-Y out to engage targets, or engage the targets around the wall with one hand.

Shooter either touches wall while leaning around end, or grabs wall with non-gun hand

while leaning out. In both cases, the contact is with the outer foot of the wall, and thus beyond the fault line. That's going to get a procedural?

10.2.1 was a screwed up rule before---I've seen a lot of spirited discussions on whether

there was "advantage gained". This new rule change isn't helping.

[JFlowers]

I can see where some range lawyer argues that they were not faulting the line with their foot across it and resting on an empty target stand or something because "its not touching the ground!". Its actions like that which cause rules to become ridiculously restrictive with all the unintended consequences that come with that.

[Jim Norman]

I can see both sides of this argument. I think that a blanket prohibition is wrong however. It would be better to solve the problem by allowing the WSB to simply state "Shooter may not brace against walls or other props" when the designer wants it that way.

OK, We are supposed to be "Practical Shooting" What is not practical about grabing a wall for support to make a difficult shot? Now, that I feel differs greatly from putting my foor on a target stand and claiming it isn't the "Ground" so you can't give me a proceedural. There has to be a way to address this without draconian measures. Somehow in 50 words or less we need to be able to say no, you can't step over the line and put your foot on a wall brace or target stand, and when going prone, your elbows can't touch, etc., BUT when standing an leaning really far around a wall, you can still grab the wall for support provided that you don't sweep yourself and that your feet remain inside the FFZ or if outside the zone, are not in contact with anything.

Another dumass rule courtesy of the uber-gamers.

Jim

[vluc]

Another dumass rule courtesy of the uber-gamers.

Jim

We seem to be making rules that address a very small minority of shooters. We are going to drown in the minutiae of these and get nibbled to death by ducks....

[LPatterson]

I am continually getting lost in the semantics of rules complaints. To me a wall is a long continuous surface that the average human is not going to be able to reach from one end to the other, whereas a barricade is something small that can be reached around. Just because there are fault lines (charge lines are not in the new rules as listed in some on line minutes) at the end of a wall or barricade does not mean the object in between can not be touched unless there is also a fault line on the ground in front of that wall or barricade.

I can be a guardhouse lawyer as well as the next guy. Rules are only as good as the ability to interpert them.

[SteveZ]

I am continually getting lost in the semantics of rules complaints. To me a wall is a long continuous surface that the average human is not going to be able to reach from one end to the other, whereas a barricade is something small that can be reached around. Just because there are fault lines (charge lines are not in the new rules as listed in some on line minutes) at the end of a wall or barricade does not mean the object in between can not be touched unless there is also a fault line on the ground in front of that wall or barricade.

I can be a guardhouse lawyer as well as the next guy. Rules are only as good as the ability to interpert them.

I'm hoping that when the USPSA turns the prototype rulebook over to the members for discussion...we can do some "en-mass" veto of some of these ridiculous rules that have been "passed".

Edited December 27, 2006 by SteveZ

[Jaxshooter]

If they would spend as much time organizing shoots and designing good stages as they do with petty rule changes the sport would continue to grow and attract new shooters.

Is the next step shooting from behind cover and wearing a concealment vest?