Yet Another Scope Question

[spring]

Starter kit:

I have a Remington 700 LTR in .223 that's really intended for plinking ground squirrels and coyotes at 200 yards. However, it shoots almost well enough to be a good starter gun for MOR despite the crappy scope that's on it right now.

The best scope I'll be able to afford is a Leupold but they come in 3-10 or 4.5-14 power. The right scope for the gun is probably the 3-10 but I got the impression from all the posts here that I need the 4-14 to see what I need to see for MOR.

Since the H-S stock is does not have an adjustable cheekpiece, I'm also wondering if this drives me to a 40mm objective lens instead of the 50mm.

I get only one chance to buy this scope. Should I go 3-10 or 4.5-14? Does the big front end make sense or does this screw me on cheek weld? I'll appreciate guidance. Thanks.

[EricW]

http://www.defensiveedge.net/ sells adjustable cheekpieces specifically designed for the 700. Drill two holes, problem solved.

Flip a coin on the scope. The magnification is used to see bullet holes in paper and dope the wind accordingly. My response is to move the targets back until no one can see the holes. Everyone else's response is "buy a bigger scope" and keep the targets where they are.

If you can afford 50mm, buy it. You won't need it for competition, but you'll appreciate the brightness for hunting.

Seriously consider the TMR reticle over standard mildots. It's much more precise.

[Precision40]

Starter kit:

The best scope I'll be able to afford is a Leupold but they come in 3-10 or 4.5-14 power. The right scope for the gun is probably the 3-10 but I got the impression from all the posts here that I need the 4-14 to see what I need to see for MOR.

I get only one chance to buy this scope. Should I go 3-10 or 4.5-14? Does the big front end make sense or does this screw me on cheek weld? I'll appreciate guidance. Thanks.

That's purely up to you. Personally if I was shooting anything <100yds, I'd go with the 3-10. Anything above that, the 4.5-14x50 would probably be more what your looking for. I've used a 10x out to 1000yds without any problems. Leupold makes great glass, you might also want to consider the IOR, their as good as if not better than Leupold at about 25% less cost as well.

IOR 4-14x50

IOR 2.5-10x42

IOR 10x42

[M118LR]

Leupold is a good choice in scopes for the price. There are far better scopes, but they are a little more expensive. As for power range the 4.5 X 14 is a good choice. I myself like a 6.5 X 20 LR scope.

As for a cheekpiece for your HS stock you should look at the Eagle or BlackHawk stock pack.

[Phil Dunlop]

The IOR 2.5-10 has no parallax adjustment.

Has anyone figured if the added accuracy is worth the time to adjust, or in the IOR case, is the loss of accuracy worth the time saved adjusting the dial?

In USPSA/IPSC MOR scored comstock?

Thanks

P.D.

[George]

I took 5th overall behind Carlock, Burkett, Voigt, etc... at the 06 MOR match in Albany using a sporterized .270 sporting a Leupy Vari X III 3.5-10x with target knobs and a duplex Tactical style reticle. I wrote range data on my hand and cranked it on/off between shots on the LD stage where I did quite OK compared to folks sporting thrice the optics on four times the rifle. I even beat out quite a few high zoot rigs and their drivers over the whole match with my under 1k TOTAL investment rifle ;-)

You DO NOT need a huge magnification factor as much as you need GOOD glass. at 700+ yards, a one MOA target will be sorta' tough with a 10x, but fairly doable if you have good dope. At 1k, you may want more mag for various reaasons, but in good hands 10x can do MOA easily there too, but then again so can irons! It really depends on the MOA requirement versus the time constraint and target visibility of the game you are playing.

10x is enough for most stuff and 16x ought' to cover anything you come across as long as the glass and tube are quality shjt. I am a firm believer in using the minimum magnification needed to get the job done. It speeds the process by reducing hold wobble (you should be shooting on approach anyway). Excess magnification typically translates into extra time spent needlessly dressing up an already acceptable sight picture. Press the trigger and get onto the next target already ;-)

If you have good position, you typically shoot the same size groups at any range with any magnification ranging from pretty much none, through 20x mag, you will just spend longer doing it the higher the magnification you use ;-)

_____________________________________________

USPSA uses 3 scoring methods in reality:

9.2.2

Courses of fire shall be scored using one (1) of the following methods:

US9.2.2.1 "Virginia Count"

The total score (minus penalties) divided by the time. The number of rounds is fixed and time stops on last shot. Only paper targets may be used. Virginia Count scoring may not be used in Field Courses. Virginia Count is only to be used for USPSA Approved Matches (local matches) and USPSA Classifier stages, when engaging the same targets with multiple strings of fire, and Standard Exercises.

9.2.2.2 "Comstock"

No limits shall be placed on the time taken or the number of rounds fired by a competitor during the course of fire. A competitor's score shall be calculated by adding the total point value of all scoring shots, then deducting the value of procedural or other penalties which may apply. This result is then divided by the actual time taken by the competitor to complete the course of fire, to arrive at a "hit factor" for each competitor. The competitor with the highest "hit factor" shall be awarded the maximum available stage points for the course of fire, with all other competitors ranked relative to this score.

9.2.2.3

Competitions with courses of fire scored in one or more of the foregoing scoring methods shall rank competitors within their Division in descending order of overall stage points achieved in all courses of fire, calculated to not less than four (4) decimal places.

US9.2.2.4 "Fixed Time"

The total score of all hits, with penalties for shots fired after the signal to stop has been given(overtime shots). Fixed number of rounds. The score will be non-factored and raw points less penalties equals the stage points.

[recon215]

Starter kit:

The best scope I'll be able to afford is a Leupold but they come in 3-10 or 4.5-14 power. The right scope for the gun is probably the 3-10 but I got the impression from all the posts here that I need the 4-14 to see what I need to see for MOR.

I get only one chance to buy this scope. Should I go 3-10 or 4.5-14? Does the big front end make sense or does this screw me on cheek weld? I'll appreciate guidance. Thanks.

That's purely up to you. Personally if I was shooting anything <100yds, I'd go with the 3-10. Anything above that, the 4.5-14x50 would probably be more what your looking for. I've used a 10x out to 1000yds without any problems. Leupold makes great glass, you might also want to consider the IOR, their as good as if not better than Leupold at about 25% less cost as well.

IOR 4-14x50

IOR 2.5-10x42

IOR 10x42

40,

You left out the most widely used IOR for long range shooting, the 3x18x42 version. It's what I have on my SPR A1 and works great from 100yds out to 1000 yds and the dot wont cover your bull at 1000 like the leupy mildot does. Just my 2 cents worth.

[Precision40]

That would be the perfect scope, but he hinted his budget was around $1000, so I left it at that.

I had the Fleasope (3-18) and it was a remarkable scope, could see .30 bullet holes at 500yds with the right conditions, but found it to be too much scope if you know what I mean. Nowadays I have the Leupy 10x40 with the M3 knobs and like it just as much. Apples and oranges

[recon215]

Too much scope in what way? It's perfect for any range you want to shoot a 308 at. And it is just a tad over 1000, ok closer to 1200. I am looking at the 2-12 for my AR next with that cqb retical for out to 800 yds.

[Precision40]

I found myself keeping it dialed up to 15-18x most of the time and getting lazy, even for the closer shots I found myself dialing it all the way up. The range I shoot at max's out at 500yds, so 95% of all my shooting is <500. If shooting >500 is what someone is wanting to do, then I agree the the 3-18 is the perfect scope for the price. You can pick up a barely used one for $1k.

Since his rifle is .223, would you think the 3-18 is unecessary? I'm not sure of the ballistics at 1000 (if there even is any)

[spring]

Lots of great advice. Thanks.

Is there any point in getting an angled base (since the round will be falling from the sky at 1000 yards) or is it just stupid to worry about that range with a .223? Is there a downside to an angled base?

[Dan Sierpina]

Get the tapered base. They keep you from running out of adjustment at over 600 yards.

[Precision40]

Lots of great advice. Thanks.

Is there any point in getting an angled base (since the round will be falling from the sky at 1000 yards) or is it just stupid to worry about that range with a .223? Is there a downside to an angled base?

Long as your objective is 42mm or less you shouldn't have any problems with the 20moa base. I'm no expert but the larger objectives require higher rings with the 20moa because the objective might hit the barrel. All rings are different, make sure you research it. I'd suggest snipersparadise.com. TONS of info about the 20moa if you use the search function.

[itento]

I have been looking at more magnification for my new JP upper which hopefully will arrive next week. It will be a 1:8, 20 inch with a JP recoil eliminator. I wanted something for F Class at out local matches and something to get me a little tighter groups out at distance. I have been really holding off because I didn't want to lay out $1000 to tell the truth. I got a flyer from Midway on their Nikon scope sale and decided to get the 6.5-20X44 Monarch with Nikoplex reticle. For $349.00 I didn't think I could go too far wrong. It arrived today and I mounted it on a spare LaRue 1.5 SPR and slipped it on my other JP upper. I'm pleasently suprised. I had my doubts about the reticle but the cross bars aren't too thick that they obscure. Brightness is good and I don't notice any distortion. It also has 1/8 elevation and windage fingertip adjustments. Can't wait to put it on the new upper and sight it in.

Edited January 9, 2007 by itento

[CTMoots]

Hello,

I have some suggestions for you on the scope for precision matches. I shoot as many matches as I can, and also am a long range shooter at work. I have my competition rifle set up completely different than my work rifle. (Not by choice!!!!!) My competition rifles ALL have Leupold 6.5 X 20 TMRs on them, and I have no complaints. My work rifle has a Leupold 3.5 X 10 Mil Dot, and I have lots of complaints with this one.

One of the main reasons for having a magnified optic, is to be able to see, and getting more power with a quality glass will allow you to do just that. I challenge anyone with a 10X in any Sniper/ Precision Match, and have a big advantage simply because I will be able to see better. Not only see targets better, but see impacts, mirradge, etc... better.

I recomend that you get a great piece of glass for your precision rifle, and train with it. Don't worry about the caliber of your rifle yet, you can shoot a lot more rounds in 223 and get good training. Get yourself a bigger caliber rifle when you are ready and come out to some matches.

Have fun shooting, this is America

Tate Moots