M&p Trigger Job

[Flexmoney]

If you have any tips or tricks for the M&P trigger...post them here.

Since the other M&P thread is 500 posts long and nobody seems to want to start a new thread, I thought I would kick it off.

And, if you are wondering about sights or holsters...start a NEW THREAD for each of those topics. (We are never going to be able to dig through the other thread for this info...it is too long.)

[bierman]

+1 because the trigger on mine leaves a lot to be desired. Thanks Flex.

[HHjr]

I don't even have one yet and I want to know .....I am trying to sell a couple to try and get one for 07 HHjr

[chp5]

My best tip is to send it to Dan Burwell (on the forum). Dan does an excellent trigger job for $50.

BTW - out of the box, my trigger was mucho crappy.

Edited December 23, 2006 by chp5

[jspruance]

Flex,

Here is a link from MP-Pistol.com. It is a great tutorial with pix.

Also Dan Burwell seems like a great guy.

http://mp-pistol.com/boards/viewtopic.php?...ght=trigger+job

JFS

[vincent]

If attempting to lighten the trigger and reduce reset here are some tips that I would say after messing up one sear.

Get an extra sear before you start working on the only one you have.

If you are going to adjust the sear to reduce weight, do these steps before adjusting for shorter reset or tuning the plunger safety since this changes to point of the break.

When stoning the top of the sear be sure to cut perfectly flat across the top of the sear.

In the end I sent my gun to Dan Burwell for trigger work. I didn't want to wait to figure it all out. Dan's turn around is amazing and the trigger is nice.

[Flexmoney]

Good points vincent.

From what I've surmised, it would make sense to adjust the sear (at the back side) first, then do the reset work.

The shorter reset...that seems to be a function of having the over-travel reduced (along with the material removed) ?

What's the deal with the safety plunger caution ? Is it that the plunger may not be engaged soon enough if you expedite the release of the sear (after modifing/rounding the plunger shoulder) ?

[HHjr]

I am soaking up everything I can read on the M&P's in hopes to own one asap ..... I am wondering if it is a requirement for a smith to do the trigger enhancement with the whole gun or could a safe job be done with just the sear modual and slide ? The way that sear group pops out I wonder .......... HHjr

[Dan Burwell]

Yeah I always make sure I have the pull weight about a 1/2 pound over where I want it (reducing the engagement usually takes about 1/2 pound off) before messing with the over travel and reset.

The reset is shortened by the amount of over travel you remove. They are absolutely reliant on each other.

As for the plunger I do them all the same but I guess that is cause I know where the trigger is going to break. You really just want to make sure the radius you put on the plunger isn't too great that the trigger breaks before it is fully lifted. If you can get it to clear with minimal trigger travel left it will help make the reset more positive. But cutting it too close is bad definite bad JuJu if you like a gun that goes bang.

I am soaking up everything I can read on the M&P's in hopes to own one asap ..... I am wondering if it is a requirement for a smith to do the trigger enhancement with the whole gun or could a safe job be done with just the sear modual and slide ? The way that sear group pops out I wonder .......... HHjr

I have been trying to do a "drop in" trigger but have found the tolerances are pretty loose that If I get a block all tuned for one gun the next gun may have some over travel and the next gun it may not have enough travel to fire at all.

I have also had parts supply problems, I can order any of the parts I need but they often get backordered some times for several weeks.

From a buisness prespective I do not feel I can offer "drop in" trigger jobs that I may or may not be able to ship due to backordered parts.

Not to mention I would have to find a happy medium that would work in all guns the problem with that is some guns would have more overtravel than I would like to see in a gun that would be associated with my name.

Hope that makes sense.

Edited December 24, 2006 by danial97

[HHjr]

Yes ..thanks Danial97 ........ Better have it done right and tested prior to letting it out the door. Thankyou.

HH

[vincent]

Flex, the sear work changes the break point. I think it best to do the rest of the work after you know where the new break is going to be. Otherwise there will be trouble.

The first run on the trigger work I did using the info from the M&P forums produced good results. I was able to go to about 4.75-5.0lbs as measured with my RCBS guage at about the middle of the bottom segment of the trigger. The reduced reset is nice and I got rid of the "double click" take-up and reset caused by the sharp edges on the plunger safety. This is with the descrobed contouring, stoning, and polishing.

However I wanted it much lighter so I went with Dan Burwell (known here as danial97). Dan came recommended by several local folks and I like all the honest posts he has made on this forum and the M&P forums. Plus I like to support fellow shooters. Win, Win!

[ysued]

Like I posted on the other M&P Post, Dan is the guy to send the M&P to!!

Dan does a great Trigger Job, and like it was posted before, he has a great turnaround too.

Support our Forum Members.

Y

[jspruance]

I polished my M&P trigger bar, sear and FP safety button. This got rid of the grittiness but only reduced the pull from 6# to 5 3/4# . I did not take any material from the sear.

I decided to replace the stock trigger ret. spring with a stock Glock trigger ret. spring. This alone dropped the pull to 4 1/4 #. I was happy.

I headed for the range and put 150 rounds through the gun. No gun problems and I am now able to make 10 yd. head shots strong/weak hand only.

However all is not perfect. While doing Bill drills I noticed the ocassional trigger freeze. This would take normal .2 sec. splits and turn them into .5 or .6 splits. I think this is the trigger reset is not as fast or definate. Maybe an extra power return spring like the ones for Glock would be a happy medium. BTW, these springs are tricky to replace.

There may be some relief in a weaker FP spring. Will try it soon.

My M&P does not have the reset click like my Glocks, it did not have it right out of the box. I like the click because I ride the trigger and this lets me know a reset has occured. I find this a little more difficult on the M&P.

If I can't get a 2 1/2# trigger I will not be happy.

JFS

[ysued]

Why don't you skip the Trial and Error and send it to Dan Burwell for a 2.25Lb Competition Trigger Job!!

http://www.burwellgunsmithing.com/M&P1.htm

Personally I'm happy with my 3.5 LB $50.00 Trigger Job, but Dan does a Trigger Job for every taste.

I polished my M&P trigger bar, sear and FP safety button. This got rid of the grittiness but only reduced the pull from 6# to 5 3/4# . I did not take any material from the sear.

I decided to replace the stock trigger ret. spring with a stock Glock trigger ret. spring. This alone dropped the pull to 4 1/4 #. I was happy.

I headed for the range and put 150 rounds through the gun. No gun problems and I am now able to make 10 yd. head shots strong/weak hand only.

However all is not perfect. While doing Bill drills I noticed the ocassional trigger freeze. This would take normal .2 sec. splits and turn them into .5 or .6 splits. I think this is the trigger reset is not as fast or definate. Maybe an extra power return spring like the ones for Glock would be a happy medium. BTW, these springs are tricky to replace.

There may be some relief in a weaker FP spring. Will try it soon.

My M&P does not have the reset click like my Glocks, it did not have it right out of the box. I like the click because I ride the trigger and this lets me know a reset has occured. I find this a little more difficult on the M&P.

If I can't get a 2 1/2# trigger I will not be happy.

JFS

[jspruance]

ysued,

If I lived close enough to Dan to drop my pistol off and then pick it up that would be great.

But before I make a $160 of $170 dollar investment into a $400. gun I want to know that the M&P is really a gun I want to shoot in competition more than my G17, G34 and G22 that I currently use.

I assume that the shipping cost to and from Dan would be a minimum of $70, maybe more after FFL fees to ship and recieve. If I am wrong maybe someone could streighten me out.

JFS

[ysued]

You don't need to send guns to Gunsmiths through FFL's!!

It is perfectly legal for you to ship a Gunn to an FFL Holding Gunsmith and for him to return it to your House!!

But you are right, Next day shipping to and from dan would run you between $60-$75!!

I don't know where you live but Dan is in PA, and his turnaround time is just AWESOME!!

Call him!! I'm very happy with my 3.5Lb Trigger Job, I really don't need anything lower to "Feel" Competitive. Heck I shot for 2 years with a G17 and a factory 3.5Lb Connector that by no means is 3.5Lb!!

Y

ysued,

If I lived close enough to Dan to drop my pistol off and then pick it up that would be great.

But before I make a $160 of $170 dollar investment into a $400. gun I want to know that the M&P is really a gun I want to shoot in competition more than my G17, G34 and G22 that I currently use.

I assume that the shipping cost to and from Dan would be a minimum of $70, maybe more after FFL fees to ship and recieve. If I am wrong maybe someone could streighten me out.

JFS

[Flexmoney]

I had to can couple of posts.

Let's keep on topic and keep the "this gun VS. that gun" debates off the forum (as per the rules).

Kyle F.

Forum Administrator

Now back to constructive talk about the trigger...

[ysued]

I had to can couple of posts.

Let's keep on topic and keep the "this gun VS. that gun" debates off the forum (as per the rules).

Kyle F.

Forum Administrator

Now back to constructive talk about the trigger...

Sorry about that

Back on the Topic...

My first M&P9 had an OK Trigger Pull, Dan made it Excellent, my second M&P9 had a Horrible Trigger, Creepy and hard, Dan did his magic on it too, Dan is so consistent on his work, that I can't tell the guns apart without looking at the Slides(one is engraved with the Warning).

If you have an M&P get Dan to tweak it for you.

My Groups have improved dramatically after my Triggers were worked on!!

Y

[Flexmoney]

I got my big hammer out and took a look inside one of these.

A few things:

1. While I expected mass produced parts on the inside, some of them were even a bit less substantial than I expected. Probably fine. Just something I'd keep an eye on with all the rounds we tend to shoot.

2. The striker came out of this gun soaking wet with oil. I see that in the Glocks when guys assume they should put oil in there. The M&P seems to have the same basic striker setup as the Glock, so I would think it should also run dry ?

3. Speaking of that striker, I saw some wear marks on it that bother me. The sides of the tang have wear marks, like the Glock gets. But, they aren't close to being even...showing that the striker clocks. That shows up on the sear mating edge...with wear on only one side at the break-edge. (Even wear up where the sear first catches it, however.) Then, the firing pin tip of the striker shows very shiny wear on one side only. Clearly hitting the hole in the breech face on one side only. Also, there is a little tab for the safety plunger, it shows quite a bit of contact wear.

4. The safety plunger spring...any reason not to lighten it up? I usually do so in the Glock. It's good for about a quarter pound and improves the feel.

5. Sear (striker) engagement...I can see removing some material here. After seeing the wear patterns on the rails for the slide, I'd expect this guns slide to frame fit to change over time. It sure would be nice to have a super solid slide to frame fit, that would allow for a bit less cushion to be built into that sear/striker engagement. Just remove from the top of the sear, right? Check engagement and don't go too far?

6. That little spring under the sear. On one hand that thing seems so small I fear it failing. On the other hand, it sure puts plenty of up-pressure on that sear. ?

7. The camming nose of the trigger bar...that activates the front on the sear... That sure seems to be begging for some experimentation ? (I don't change the nose angle on the Glock connectors...unless I am just playing around with my own. I don't do so on the guns that get shot.) I am surprised at how...wimpy...that area is ?

8. The little stuff that could break...I'd like to take all that out. Too many small parts to break. I'll lose the mag disconnect and likely the sear/slide removal lever (if that can go easily). What about the gun lock? Can it come out too ?

9. Trigger return spring ? Seems like this could benefit form being lighter ?

10. Seems like Glocks orange cover plate would fit well enough for testing.

[Dan Burwell]

I made my comments in red

I got my big hammer out and took a look inside one of these.

A few things:

1. While I expected mass produced parts on the inside, some of them were even a bit less substantial than I expected. Probably fine. Just something I'd keep an eye on with all the rounds we tend to shoot.

2. The striker came out of this gun soaking wet with oil. I see that in the Glocks when guys assume they should put oil in there. The M&P seems to have the same basic striker setup as the Glock, so I would think it should also run dry ? There is a nylon sleeve liner in there as well and knowing how lube attracts dirt I run mine dry inside. I think from the factory they just spray the crap out of the whole thing with CLP and don't really care where it gets.

3. Speaking of that striker, I saw some wear marks on it that bother me. The sides of the tang have wear marks, like the Glock gets. But, they aren't close to being even...showing that the striker clocks. That shows up on the sear mating edge...with wear on only one side at the break-edge. (Even wear up where the sear first catches it, however.) Then, the firing pin tip of the striker shows very shiny wear on one side only. Clearly hitting the hole in the breech face on one side only. Also, there is a little tab for the safety plunger, it shows quite a bit of contact wear. Most I have checked out seem to be flying pretty straight with nice even wear on the sear engagement face. the wear on the plunger area they all have this right from the box so I am guessing it occurs very with the first couple firings, but it doesn't seem to get worse with time. I think the timing with the plunger rise is very close from the factory. When you do the trigger job you can make sure it isn't so close.

4. The safety plunger spring...any reason not to lighten it up? I usually do so in the Glock. It's good for about a quarter pound and improves the feel.You can do this you want to use a Springfield 1903 bolt sleeve lock spring Wolff part no. 60752. I don't like the feel of it with this in is tends to make the reset a little less positive (see my comments above about plunger effect on reset)

5. Sear (striker) engagement...I can see removing some material here. After seeing the wear patterns on the rails for the slide, I'd expect this guns slide to frame fit to change over time. It sure would be nice to have a super solid slide to frame fit, that would allow for a bit less cushion to be built into that sear/striker engagement. Just remove from the top of the sear, right? Check engagement and don't go too far? Yep top of the sear only, making sure you cut basically the whole top of the sear if you only cut the end the striker could make contact with the sear on its way past. should certainly watch your engagement I find it best done with some marker on the striker face

6. That little spring under the sear. On one hand that thing seems so small I fear it failing. On the other hand, it sure puts plenty of up-pressure on that sear. ? The only problem I have had with that little bugger is when it gets loose on my bench he is fast, small, and doesn't like to get back in his hole

7. The camming nose of the trigger bar...that activates the front on the sear... That sure seems to be begging for some experimentation ? (I don't change the nose angle on the Glock connectors...unless I am just playing around with my own. I don't do so on the guns that get shot.) I am surprised at how...wimpy...that area is ? I played with it a little but found that while it did reduce the pull weight it also lengthened the reset and I would rather have the shorter reset

8. The little stuff that could break...I'd like to take all that out. Too many small parts to break. I'll lose the mag disconnect and likely the sear/slide removal lever (if that can go easily). What about the gun lock? Can it come out too ? You can certainly loose the mad disco and if you replace the spring with with a cut 1911 mag release spring you can retain the sear disconnect lever. While you can take your gun apart without using the lever and I know plenty of people have removed it. I just don't like the feel of the trigger when taking the gun apart this way it seems to put a lot of pressure on the sear and striker, and after spending a lot of either time or money to get a nice trigger I can't see possibly ruining it because you don't want to reach in there with a pencil, toothpick, key or whatever else you may have laying around.

9. Trigger return spring ? Seems like this could benefit form being lighter ? Using a Glock factory trigger return spring is good for a 3/4 pound reduction in pull weight.

10. Seems like Glocks orange cover plate would fit well enough for testing. Never tried it, I can see the plunger rise with the factory in place and I measure the engagement by marker and measuring.

I hope you all find this useful.

[ysued]

Thanks for the Trigger job class Dan!!

But this is why I send you my guns for Trigger Jobs!!

This is too darn complicated for a dummy like me!!

Y

[Flexmoney]

Thanks for the response, Dan. I'll do some more digging when I get the chance and then I'll post some more.

[jspruance]

Flex,

I had already trimmed about 1 1/2 coils off of the trigger safety plunger spring, I replaced the trigger return spring with a stock Glock spring. The stock M&P ret. spring is very strong I got more than a pound with just this mod. The spring is very difficult to replace and the Glock spring is not a perfect match.

I also replaced the striker spring with a stock Glock unit. I had to shorten the spring by about three coils. Not much help on the pull weight.

I had previously taken a small amount off of the top of the sear, I need to take more but it is slow and scarey. Also I'm afraid that as the gun loosens up it may affect the sear engagement reliability.

I am down to about a honest 4 to 4 1/4# pull. Using my RCBS trigger scale. This trigger is much easier to measure than the Glock trigger.

Dan is right about the reset. Mine is very light and not easy to feel or hear.

I have fired about 500 rounds through the pistol since these mods, no light strikes no trigger failure to return.

Still need more ( or less I guess)

[BSeevers]

I can recommend Dan Burwell's work, very much. He does an excellent trigger job and has a great sight also.

Thanks for the tips but glad I sent it to you.