Hornady Lnl Ap

[Lee]

Anyone else having problems with the ejector wire for the loaded rounds? I think it needs a complete redesign.

I can load .40 with 180gr and have no problems. If I swith to 135gr bullets the case will sometimes tilt and bind rather than slide out. When loading 9mm and 125gr bullets most of the rounds will not eject. I have been manually pulling each out as the ram comes down rather than waiting for it to bind and jam against the ejector wire. I'm thinking the heavier bullets resist tilting and slide out easier.

I've dremeled my shellplates to smooth things up, but it hasn't helped. I just switched over to start loading 9mm again and cleaned the entire press. At least 3 out of the first 5 jammed up. I tried running the shellplate and base dry and with Silicone spray. Neither seems to work. I removed the ejector and polished it with a dremel. No help either.

I could call Hornady and complain and probably get a new bent piece of wire, but I want a real ejection system that just works. I need to load another 5,000 rounds of 9mm soon and want to get this fixed. Looking for advice or suggestion.

I've got the case feeder and it really helps. The last 100 rounds I loaded yesterday took just under 8 min. and I was manually pulling each case out. Not really looking to get faster, I just want the cases to eject to save me the motion.

Kevin

[1911user]

Case ejection is a weakness in the design and not easily fixed. The newer style shellplate with the radiused openings are an attempt to reduce the ejection problem and the chances of a case feed issue. The practical solution is to have an ejector wire for each diameter of case that you load. You can bend them to the angle that gives the best chance of ejection without pushing it off early. I would makes sure the radiused entry is very smooth on each opening of the plate; that reduces the chance of a rim catching during ejection.

[Lee]

I might have to check out the radiused shellplates. All of mine are from the mid 90's from my Projector. More dremel work I suppose.

[Chris Spiess]

I've had more or less the same problem with the ejector being unusable. In order to get it out of the way of the crimp die, it's adjusted so far in that the finished round just jams against the it. I agree that it's in need of a complete redesign, but I'll not hold my breath for that. For the time being i just pull the finished round by hand, set the next bullet and drop the round in a tray next to the bullets as I reach for the next bullet. Now that I am used to the motion, it's not bad, and I can do 100-150 rounds per 15 min. However, it would be nice to have an ejection system that works reliably, it would be much easier.

[raz-0]

Case ejection is a weakness in the design and not easily fixed. The newer style shellplate with the radiused openings are an attempt to reduce the ejection problem and the chances of a case feed issue. The practical solution is to have an ejector wire for each diameter of case that you load. You can bend them to the angle that gives the best chance of ejection without pushing it off early. I would makes sure the radiused entry is very smooth on each opening of the plate; that reduces the chance of a rim catching during ejection.

I have the newer plates. The 9mm plate needed polishing to let you get cases in and out. Took a dremel and their littel screw on felt wheel to it with some green honing compound. Fixed it right up.

Beyond that, I use lee dies, and HAD been bending the wire to make it work. WHich it did in .45. Not so in 9mm or 40. I radiused the edge of the factory crimp die with the dremel again for 9mm and 40 and basically I have my 9.40 ejector wire and my .45 ejector wire now. Swap them out with caliber changes. Still get binding sometimes, but mostly the new problem is the occasional cartridge that exits sedately, remains upright, and manages to leave the shell plate, but not quite get out of the way of things.

Doesn't bind up though.

[glooooock]

If you can keep last two stations open with more room to bend, it works better ,but the angle is pressing to the side instead of out . I have bent stainless welding rod into shapes that work well for a few hundred rds. of .45 . Still a poor design .

[Sparky_NY]

If you can keep last two stations open with more room to bend, it works better ,but the angle is pressing to the side instead of out . I have bent stainless welding rod into shapes that work well for a few hundred rds. of .45 . Still a poor design .

That ejector drives me nuts too.... I have the lee FCD die in the last station. I thinned the Lee die in the area of the ejector wire so the wire could remain closer to the factory bend. It still works like crap.

After loading (and getting aggrivated) I studies the ejector system for a while. I agree the main problem is the wire pushes against the side of the case which is what makes it bind. It would be far better if it was a push motion against the rear or the case. My old lee loadmaster has a sheet metal flat ejector that works flawlessly, studying it this is where I noticed it pushes against the rear of the case.

Guys.... lets keep this thread going and see if we can whip this problem. I also arrived at the conclusion that a complete redesign was the real solution. I am going to call hornady today and see if anything is in the works (doubtfull).

How about a home brew redesign?

(PS I do .40 with the lee FCD die in last station)

[Sparky_NY]

Called Hornady today about the ejector wire ongoing problems and as expected the rep claimed they don't get many calls on the problem, he says he just "opens up the loop" on his and it runs fine. I inquired if there were any fixes likely in the future and of course he did not know of any in the works.

As expected, Hornady denies there is a real ongoing problem so we are stuck with this lousy case ejector unless we come up with something on own own. (or just get rid of the press and go blue)

I have also had problems with the power case feeder jamming in the funnel area and raining .40 cases frequently. Again, no suggestions yet alone solutions.

I bought this press as a replacement for my Lee Loadmaster. I got sick and tired of the Lee malfunctioning somewhere every 30-50 rounds. You constantly had to stop and tweak something on the press, the result was a VERY slow round count per hour. The Hornady LNL progressive has turned out to be no better in this respect. I get about 300-400 a hour when it is working at its best.

Think this thing is headed for ebay...... LOL

[DarthMuffin]

Sorry to hear about your problems. I just wanted to add that I'm using a LNL AP with Hornady dies and I'm having zero problems with case ejection. I would suggest going with a Hornady taper crimp die and getting a new ejection wire if you've tweaked or modified yours at all.

However, I do have problems with the case feeder. I think it's just about dialed in now, but it wa a long road getting there. It seems that .40 is sort of the perfect in-between size for the case feeder--the "small" parts are too small and the "large" parts are too large.

[mscott]

I had the pile-up of cases and think I figured out the problem. The window on the bottom of the case feeder is cut too far to the right and allows case to drop early and rims to hit the top of the funnel and tip over. I taped a primer box over the hole to cover maybe 1/2" and now the cases drop straight into the funnel. I've run many thousand now without a pile-up. I called Hornady about it and like everything else, they were in denial.

[Sparky_NY]

Sorry to hear about your problems. I just wanted to add that I'm using a LNL AP with Hornady dies and I'm having zero problems with case ejection. I would suggest going with a Hornady taper crimp die and getting a new ejection wire if you've tweaked or modified yours at all.

However, I do have problems with the case feeder. I think it's just about dialed in now, but it wa a long road getting there. It seems that .40 is sort of the perfect in-between size for the case feeder--the "small" parts are too small and the "large" parts are too large.

I didn't even mention the other problems with the case feeder but had several initially that I overcame. Talking to Hornady, they told me the .40 is a tough one, its not large pistol nor small pistol, its right in the middle, just like you experienced.

First problem, the small pistol disk for the feeder wasn't picking up cases, it would run and run and run only dropping the occasional cartridge. I bought a large pistol disk. The large one didn't work well either, it picked up cases but dropped lots rim first and jammed easier. My solution was to make a "medium pistol" disk. I took the small disk and opened each slot with a end mill to a size in between the large and small sizes. That fixed that problem.

Next problem, the long plastic tube would jam up. The cases would stick because of too little clearance. I had some of the old plastic tubes from my Lee bullet feeder laying around which where again just in between the large and small sizes. I took a reamer and opened the aluminum parts at each end of the tube to accomidate the new plastic tube. This cured that problem.

On using Hornady dies.... I realize you can (must) do that in station 5 BUT myself and many others love the Lee FCD die and really want to use that die. I started with that die when having problems with 45 ammo and it cured by feed problems 100% ever since. The reason I use the die is because it sizes the completed round, sort like gauging every round . I think I would rather switch presses than give up using the FCD die.

Oh yea..... another mod I made.... I adapted a Dillion powder checker to the press. It was pretty easy. I like the idea of the Dillon checker being audible, one less thing to watch.

Edited February 8, 2007 by Sparky_NY

[Chris Spiess]

Think this thing is headed for ebay...... LOL

Sparky, If you decide to dump the press, let me know, I could use another one.

I taped a primer box over the hole to cover maybe 1/2" and now the cases drop straight into the funnel. I've run many thousand now without a pile-up.

I get pile ups with 45 & 9mm as well as the 40s - 9mm being the worst. I'll have to try this out, thanks.

[1911user]

I have found the case feeder works much better when the press is solidly mounted to a sturdy bench. It doesn't like getting shaken around while dropping a case out of the hopper. That's when my few pileups have happened. 9mm, 45acp, and 223 all seem to work fine in the casefeeder. I could see how 40 might be a problem.

With a tuned ejector wire for each caliber, the ejection is almost 100% for 45 and 223. 9mm ejection is 90-95% after adjusting the wire to be touching the 9mm case in the 5th die position. That's with mixed brass; some of it very well used. The downside to having the wire touch the case is it tends to bounce the case slightly out of the shellplate slot when it rotates into the 5th position. It's easy to set the bullet on position #4 and nudge the case at #5 back into the shellplate in one motion. Using a stock (untuned ) ejector wire is a disaster for 9mm ejection.

FYI Hornady has a new shellplate cut just for 45acp. It is #45 and they have a few plates made up. It will be a standard item, but I'm not sure how many dealers will stock it. I have noticed that 45acp in the standard #1 plate is a loose fit, but it sort of works anyway. Enough people were having custom 45acp plates made that they decided to make it a standard item.

Edited February 8, 2007 by 1911user

[Chris Spiess]

9mm ejection is 90-95% after adjusting the wire to be touching the 9mm case in the 5th die position.

I agree this works and I originally had my press tuned to work well with 9mm, but for those using a Lee FCD, adjusting the ejector so close to the case in position 5 simply is not possible.

After some thought about something someone said earlier in this post, I have an idea I want to try out regarding case ejection. I'll let you all know how it works out when i get time to try it out.

[Sparky_NY]

With a tuned ejector wire for each caliber, the ejection is almost 100% for 45 and 223. 9mm ejection is 90-95% after adjusting the wire to be touching the 9mm case in the 5th die position. That's with mixed brass; some of it very well used.

Looking at it harshly, I say 90-95% is unacceptable, thats 5 jams in a hundred rounds. Lets say your gun functioned that way.... The whole idea of a progressive is to crank out a lot of rounds in short order with minimum motions. Things such as pushing the rounds out by hand, constantly tweaking ejection wires, going extra slow through the ejection area of the stroke etc. all defeat the purpose of a progressive. Its kind of like having a STI that jams frequently but still puts rounds downrange.

What is the "failure" rate for the other stations.... priming, sizing, powder..... 1 failure per thousand would be high!!! The press works great, except for one or two areas.

9mm ejection is 90-95% after adjusting the wire to be touching the 9mm case in the 5th die position.

I agree this works and I originally had my press tuned to work well with 9mm, but for those using a Lee FCD, adjusting the ejector so close to the case in position 5 simply is not possible.

After some thought about something someone said earlier in this post, I have an idea I want to try out regarding case ejection. I'll let you all know how it works out when i get time to try it out.

Come on... don't tease.... what are you thinking of trying?

I go back to the first few posts that say a redesign of the ejector is the only real answer. Any ideas??? I studied the ejector wire for a bit, the problem I see is it pushes the case from the side causing jams against the side of the shellplate. I believe the answer is to PULL the case out from the rear of the case, straight out the slot. I have not come up with a idea for the mechanics to accomplish this yet however. I have a lathe, mill, welding equip. etc. in the garage so making some parts would not be a problem.

Where is a good mechanical engineer when you need one? LOL

[raz-0]

I studied the ejector wire for a bit, the problem I see is it pushes the case from the side causing jams against the side of the shellplate. I believe the answer is to PULL the case out from the rear of the case, straight out the slot. I have not come up with a idea for the mechanics to accomplish this yet however. I have a lathe, mill, welding equip. etc. in the garage so making some parts would not be a problem.

Where is a good mechanical engineer when you need one? LOL

Well, I'll tell you what i did to get my ejector to work. Except in 9mm it really ins;t much of a problem for me. I experience much more pain and suffering from the occasional flipped primer in my primer tube.

basically when they tell you to bend the wire to adjust it, they talk about opening and closing the "u" bit on the end. Which only lets you deal with it minorly, and at a point causes additional malfunctions due to it not pushing against the little retaining hat on the shellplate assembly to keep it in place. So this doesn't really work. What you need to do is put the proper curved bend in the middle so it pushes from a idfferent part of the case. (i.e. more towards the back). The ejector wire is pretty hard and springy, so this is not as easy as it sounds. I wound up using the same little jig i had made up to tune my 1911's extractor. to go alaong with it, you need to make sure the case to shell plate fit isn't too tight. This was a non-issue with .45 and .40, but with 9mm I had to take a little felt wheel on my dremel and some lee valley honing compound to it to stop it shooting loaded 9mm cartidges across the room.

i might have an unaltered spare lying around. if i do i'll see if I cna get meaning ful comparison pictures.

[Sparky_NY]

I studied the ejector wire for a bit, the problem I see is it pushes the case from the side causing jams against the side of the shellplate. I believe the answer is to PULL the case out from the rear of the case, straight out the slot. I have not come up with a idea for the mechanics to accomplish this yet however. I have a lathe, mill, welding equip. etc. in the garage so making some parts would not be a problem.

Where is a good mechanical engineer when you need one? LOL

Well, I'll tell you what i did to get my ejector to work. Except in 9mm it really ins;t much of a problem for me. I experience much more pain and suffering from the occasional flipped primer in my primer tube.

basically when they tell you to bend the wire to adjust it, they talk about opening and closing the "u" bit on the end. Which only lets you deal with it minorly, and at a point causes additional malfunctions due to it not pushing against the little retaining hat on the shellplate assembly to keep it in place. So this doesn't really work. What you need to do is put the proper curved bend in the middle so it pushes from a idfferent part of the case. (i.e. more towards the back). The ejector wire is pretty hard and springy, so this is not as easy as it sounds. I wound up using the same little jig i had made up to tune my 1911's extractor. to go alaong with it, you need to make sure the case to shell plate fit isn't too tight. This was a non-issue with .45 and .40, but with 9mm I had to take a little felt wheel on my dremel and some lee valley honing compound to it to stop it shooting loaded 9mm cartidges across the room.

i might have an unaltered spare lying around. if i do i'll see if I cna get meaning ful comparison pictures.

I understand what you mean, pushing from the rear of the case is what is needed. I have one major question though.... are you using a Lee FCD in station 5? That is when the plot really thickens, due to the die the wire has to be further back to clear the die housing. The factory eject wire works pretty decent if you don't use station 5. The factory wire passes right across the recess in the shellplate at station 5, hopefully Hornady fired the engineer that did this.

In my searching the net on this problem I also found mention that the Hornady press indexes in half steps compared to other presses, that means the shell has to eject in half the rotation (movement)of other presses which complicates things even further.

Edited February 8, 2007 by Sparky_NY

[1911user]

The design decision to use half-step case advancement is the root cause of your objections and that will not change short of a ground-up redesign (unlikely). The press manual states specifically that only hornady crimp dies will work in station #5. If you insist on using the FCD in station #5, I suggest you sell the press and buy another brand or use it as a 4-station press and only eject from station #5 (FCD in #4). You could also spend $15 for a hornady taper crimp die and see how well it works for you.

[Sparky_NY]

The design decision to use half-step case advancement is the root cause of your objections and that will not change short of a ground-up redesign (unlikely). The press manual states specifically that only hornady crimp dies will work in station #5. If you insist on using the FCD in station #5, I suggest you sell the press and buy another brand or use it as a 4-station press and only eject from station #5 (FCD in #4). You could also spend $15 for a hornady taper crimp die and see how well it works for you.

The half step advancing works just fine, no problem there. Surely a ejector design can be had that will work with the half steps, although it does not appear it will come from Hornady.

Unfortunately people don't get to read that only Hornady Crimp dies will work in station#5 until they already own the press (and probably have it set up!) I believe (could be wrong) that this is the only press on the market that cannot use the Lee FCD,which is a very popular die! It is not uncommon for people to use other brand dies in their presses, I use a redding comp. seating die for example. I could use the hornady crimp die BUT it does full length size the completed round which is the main reason people use the Lee die in the first place. I use a powder checker and redding comp seat die so that leaves out the option of only using it as a 4 station press.

So, the manual states the problem exists with station #5, I just take that as a confirmation of bad engineering. You don't happen to work for Hornady do you? LOL

Edited February 8, 2007 by Sparky_NY

[Sparky_NY]

I had the pile-up of cases and think I figured out the problem. The window on the bottom of the case feeder is cut too far to the right and allows case to drop early and rims to hit the top of the funnel and tip over. I taped a primer box over the hole to cover maybe 1/2" and now the cases drop straight into the funnel. I've run many thousand now without a pile-up. I called Hornady about it and like everything else, they were in denial.

YOU DID FIGURE OUT THE PROBLEM !!!! I tried your fix this afternoon and loaded 700-800 without a single jamup !!!!!!

Well Done !!!! And thanks !!!

[Sparky_NY]

Fiddled with the press more this afternoon, fixed the case feeder jams thanks to a post earlier in this thread.

I worked on the ejector more. I had already ground off a flat on one side of the Lee FCD which aligns with the ejector wire giving more clearance. (die set for depth first without wire installed, then install wire and mark location on die where it touches). Looking over the die I noticed I could safely take a tiny bit more off for more clearance so I did that.

I worked over the ejector wire similar to prior efforts.... shorten the section that goes under the plate at the clamp screw, this loves it in closer to the feeder V-block, then adjusted the loop end of the wire so it just clears the die ( critical). No other modifications to the ejector wire. Removing the additional material on the die made a substancial difference. The difference in jamming and smooth operation is less than 1/16 movement of the wire at the die.

I loaded about 700-800 without much ejection problems but time will tell... I had it work before for short peroids, then the wire tension changes or gets roughed up and its back to square one.

A note on removing material from the Lee FCD... I put a flat on the die, parallel to the ejector wire. Do not remove too much material from the die, a tiny bit has to be left to support the carbide sizing ring or the carbide ring will break. (been there done that)

I am changing calibers now for the first time, to 45acp, hopefully they will feed and eject OK but I have faith they will. It appears the smaller diameter the case the more problems.

A better ejector method is still needed, hopefully somebody will come up with a homebrewed modification. (like the case feeder jam fix)

[captdom]

I've used my lnl for 6 months now ,and ejection of 45acp,40,9mm,and 223 is 100% after loading 1000's of each caliber . what I did was to ensure each shell plate has no tool marks or burrs anywhere shells touch shellplate as its being ejected,both top and bottom of shellplate should be thoroughly checked and dremeled smooth.slightly open up radiused ends of shellplate and polish smooth. wire should not be bent and should be locked under allen screw as close to press as you can get it. hold it in as you tighten allen screw.I use a lee crimp die in station 5 and just filed off section of die to clear wire. hope this helps

[5Shot]

Well, I have a thought on this one, but it will require someone with a mill and/or lathe. If it works, we should get positive (mechanical) ejection from the rear of the case. There may need to be change out parts for different calibers though.

I can draw up the required part and/or provide a solid model (if you have fancy CAM capabilities).

If anyone wants to try tackling this, shoot me an email and we can discuss the idea.

Finally, that degree in Mechanical Engineering has shown some promise

5Shot

Edited March 24, 2007 by 5Shot

[Sparky_NY]

Well, I have a thought on this one, but it will require someone with a mill and/or lathe. If it works, we should get positive (mechanical) ejection from the rear of the case. There may need to be change out parts for different calibers though.

I can draw up the required part and/or provide a solid model (if you have fancy CAM capabilities).

If anyone wants to try tackling this, shoot me an email and we can discuss the idea.

Finally, that degree in Mechanical Engineering has shown some promise

5Shot

I have all 3, lathe , mill and LNL press thats picky about ejecting.

[5Shot]

Well, I have a thought on this one, but it will require someone with a mill and/or lathe. If it works, we should get positive (mechanical) ejection from the rear of the case. There may need to be change out parts for different calibers though.

I can draw up the required part and/or provide a solid model (if you have fancy CAM capabilities).

If anyone wants to try tackling this, shoot me an email and we can discuss the idea.

Finally, that degree in Mechanical Engineering has shown some promise

5Shot

I have all 3, lathe , mill and LNL press thats picky about ejecting.

email on the way