9mm Bear Creek Bullets Vs Titegroup

[Harmon]

shot a small local match with my pistol shooting 147 grian bear creek bullets and titegroup powder.

problem im having with it is the leading..its horrible. Plain lead bullets lead less than the coated ones.

3.0 grains chronos at 1000+ fps...but that should be OK still...i mean the bullet is hard cast.

I thought the bullets might be undersize, they measured .356 and my old load( i ran out of the powder) was vv n330 at 3.6 grains and you could shoot 2000 through the gun w/o problems.

with titegroup 200 and you get enough lead build up to make the bullets tumble...anywho after all the trouble with gettting the lead out of the bore...i thought i would pass the word. Titegroup with 147 bear creek bullets is bad juju.

My berrys bullets will be here this week hopefully...and i can almost forget about cleaning the bore.

harmon

[ihatepickles]

That's good to know. I'm not great with powder terminology but I've read repeated statements that Titegroup has a burning characteristic that melts leads easily. I'd assume that the coating on those bullets isn't very tough and the TG melts the coating and lead.

[DougCarden]

I remember moly coating some 38 special 158 lrn and loading them with TG. Got to my 4th cylinder full and couldnt hit anything. I spent 4 hours cleaning the bbl and finally got a Lewis lead remover and got the strips of lead out....It was miserable.

It cured me of trying moly on the lead bullets alright. Sometimes fast powder isnt good for everything....

DougC

[Kenpo Joe]

I've been shooting thier bullets for three years now in my 45 with Titegroup and I never have had a problem with leading. I just do a normal cleaning with a patch and Break Free.

I also use their bullets in my 44 and 357 mag with H110 and the barrels remain lead free.

Back on mute.

[Singlestack Wonder]

I thought the bullets might be undersize, they measured .356 and my old load( i ran out of the powder) was vv n330 at 3.6 grains and you could shoot 2000 through the gun w/o problems.

If you are shooting a 9mm barrel and not a 38 super, the bullet size should be .355, not .356. That's probably why you are seeing the extensive leading, the bullet O.D. is too large in the 9mm barrel. Shooters sometimes utilize .356 diameter bullets in their almost worn out 9mm barrels to get a little more life.

I just checked the Bear Bullets site and they list their 9mm at .356 (38 super O.D.). In looking at the Master Blasters site, they list both 38 super bullets at .356 and 9mm bullets at .355. Try some of the Master Blasters (Master Blasters 9mm Bullets). I've used both and I have noticed that the Master Blasters are cleaner to handle.

Edited December 18, 2006 by Singlestack Wonder

[Scout454]

Oversized lead bullets (at least .001) will work fine in a barrel and are less prone to leading than bore size bullets. Bore sized lead bullets will cause leading due to gas-cutting. Gas cutting is caused by powder that burns hot (TiteGroup) - and bullets that are too hard to slug up and fit the bore. It wouldn't hurt to slug your bore and find out exactly what size bullet to use - and then go up .001

Harmon, try a cooler powder. N330 comes to mind. You might try Universal Clays too. And if you want to continue to shoot lead - slug your bore.

[LPatterson]

I thought the bullets might be undersize, they measured .356 and my old load( i ran out of the powder) was vv n330 at 3.6 grains and you could shoot 2000 through the gun w/o problems.

If you are shooting a 9mm barrel and not a 38 super, the bullet size should be .355, not .356. That's probably why you are seeing the extensive leading, the bullet O.D. is too large in the 9mm barrel. Shooters sometimes utilize .356 diameter bullets in their almost worn out 9mm barrels to get a little more life.

I just checked the Bear Bullets site and they list their 9mm at .356 (38 super O.D.). In looking at the Master Blasters site, they list both 38 super bullets at .356 and 9mm bullets at .355. Try some of the Master Blasters (Master Blasters 9mm Bullets). I've used both and I have noticed that the Master Blasters are cleaner to handle.

MasterBlaster recommends not using TiteGroup with their bullets.

[big_kahuna]

I had leading with moly-encapsulated bullets and TG in my 40 and 45. Cured problem by going to a cooler/slower powder. I ended up using WSF for 40 and WST for 45... also heard that PB is good, but don't have first-hand knowledge of it.

My WSF/WST loads are much cleaner. One pass with a boresnake and the barrels are spotless.

Edited December 18, 2006 by big_kahuna

[sargenv]

Something I haven't seen mention is "are you flaring the case mouth enough" so that you don't scrape off the Moly coating. If you don't flare it enough, you will scrape it off and experience leading since lead is what comes into contact with the barrel. I've used Bear creeks for years in 38 and 40 with varying weights sometimes to 1350 fps with no leading and good accuracy. Powders used are Tightgroup, 231, Ramshot Competition, Power pistol, and Red dot. Except for the Power Pistol, all are considered hot fast burning powders. I don't ever get any leading from the bear creeks.

Vince

[DougCarden]

Singlestack Wonder, FYI Lead bullets are sized .001 than their jacketed counterparts.

Ie. 9x19 .356 vs .355 jacketed, 38 spec .358 vs. .357 jacketed, etc.

Regards,

DougC

[Singlestack Wonder]

Singlestack Wonder, FYI Lead bullets are sized .001 than their jacketed counterparts.

Ie. 9x19 .356 vs .355 jacketed, 38 spec .358 vs. .357 jacketed, etc.

Regards,

DougC

Interesting, Master Blaster's web site shows 9mm's at .355

[revchuck]

I remember moly coating some 38 special 158 lrn and loading them with TG. Got to my 4th cylinder full and couldnt hit anything. I spent 4 hours cleaning the bbl and finally got a Lewis lead remover and got the strips of lead out....It was miserable.

It cured me of trying moly on the lead bullets alright. Sometimes fast powder isnt good for everything....

DougC

I had a similar problem with Masterblaster bullets with their 150 grain .358 RN using American Select. I've still got a couple hundred I might try with something slower, but I'm probably going to suck up the extra cost and go with Berry's.

[Harmon]

case is flared plenty as the same specs with VV powder is fine.. pulled bullets reflect NO scraping of the coating.

Lead bullets are supposed to be 1 thou over bore diameter.

N330 works good so does ramshot silhouette and AA7.. im out of these bullets and awaiting my berrys which i will shoot Titegroup behind.

FWIW i shoot bear creek 180s in my 40 with titegroup at identical speed without leading...must be how small the 9mm bore is vs the bullet weight and pressure...plus TG burns hot as hell.

Universal clays got nasty quick too with initial testing...seems the slower, grittier powders do best with that bullet in the 9mm...HS6 ought to work well.

harmon

[ampleworks]

I'm still trying to get the 1000+fps through my head with 3 grains under a 147.

It took 3.4 grains through a 4" XD to get that speed with TG.

Wow!

[revchuck]

Harmon - Have you slugged and miked your barrel? I'm just wondering if maybe your 9x19 barrel is way over .355". European 9mms are famous for that.

My Beretta 92 keyholes .355 lead bullets that shoot well from my CZ-75B; .356s work better so far, and I've got some Precision 147s that I had sized .358 for my .38 revolvers that are next in line for the pasta pistol to see how they do.

Another possibility is that maybe those bullets just don't like the 1-10" twist in stock 9x19 barrels. .40 S&W barrels are usually about 1-16", which may explain why coated bullets work okay in them. My Steyr likes the Precision 185s, and judging by this forum, it has a bunch of company.