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Chronic Dq's


PaulW

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JFD, Hold on their guy. When? That is not soley up to me. Also I am on only one of the boards in which these DQ's have happened. Although ALL of the safety concerns and situation will be weighed it is up to the board to decide in which direction to take. I will have my say and it will be spoken firmly, yet fairly. Do you think I want to see one of our shooters get hurt by this guy?

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We used to have a system in UK where they would track the number of DQ's I think if a shooter had three in one year then he/she had to redo the UKPSA safety course. This was a two day course.

I think we need something similar in USPSA, most people won't ever hit that number in a given year, but it backs up the MD and RO's with a process.

We've had at least 3 that would have had to retake this (hypothetically) in ECO this year, Paul. Not a bad idea, but only one of the three individuals concerned me. As to why, please refer to my earlier post.

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This guy needs to be shown the door and not allowed to return until he has his NRA Firearm Safety card, NROI Level I card, and a note from his mother. And then keep him on a very short leash.

Keep in mind though that USPSA currently has no rules for banishment. One of the "local" clubs was having a similar problem and looked to USPSA for assistance. Because there is nothing in the rules or by-laws regarding banishment it was left to the club by-laws to banish the shooter. I won't get in to how that turned into a whole other kettle of fish because it isn't salient to this discussion.

Suffice it to say that this issue ripped the club to pieces, attendance at matches dropped by half or more and they are still trying to climb out of the hole created by just one unsafe person.

This is an issue which the USPSA BoD has discussed in the past (see meeting minutes as posted online). Please contact your Area Directors and let them know how you feel on this matter and, if you feel banishment should be available, ask them to ammend the by-laws/rules to include it.

Personally, I feel that anyone that receives 3 properly documented safety DQs in any 12 month period needs to take a mandatory year off from USPSA sanctioned matches nationwide. They cannot re-enter the sport until they have completed the NROI Level I seminar.

IMHO, ALL DQs should be reported to Sedro along with the classifiers. Shooter gets a warning letter at 2 DQs. All clubs get a monthly email listing the USPSA #s of all shooters that are banned with effective dates of the ban.

The reason I feel this should be handled by USPSA is that it does little good to toss a shooter from a single club. They just take their bad behavior to the next club. Someone will eventually have to pay in a bad way for this and that just isn't good. The bad apples in the barrel need to be weeded out nationwide.

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One point here and it is one that is difficult. Do we toss the guy out? That way we are safe, but we have sent an unsafe shooter off to shoot unsupervised without the benefit of our tender teachings. Would you want him showing up next to you at the range? Or do we hold on to him and re-educate him, perhaps instill in him some safety conciousness so that while he may never be our favorite, at least is unlikely to do 360s with his gun?

Jim

This is the biggest thing that I would be worried about.

You ban this individual from any and all club competitions, so then he goes to another range to shoot or just shows his gun off to friends and family. He still does not have the basic safety rules in his head, and he still thinks he is God's gift to the gun world. What do you feel deep down in your gut is going to happen? I would probably predict someone or something will have extra holes.

I believe that we are in an unique position. Most USPSA (and/or IDPA) RO/SO's are knowledgeable, very safety conscience and are willing to go the extra mile. He will not learn without help. As much as we would like to get rid of him, it is not responsible of us to knowingly let that individual walk away without forcing the basic safety rules upon him.

I personally and professionally would have to work with this individual. I've given hours upon hours of my time at my local range working with unsafe shooters to get them on the right track. I even carry copies of the safety rules to give them.

If you do decide to ban him, I would also be very careful on how you do it. If you don't know the guy very well or his state of mind, he could be an even bigger problem. He will probably have a very negative attitude toward the RO's and other shooters. And unfortunately, in this day and age, people go off just because they have been embarrassed. Not saying that this will happen, but people with an attitude as described usually have other issues that you don't know about.

Just my .02$

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It is not any USPSA club's responsibility to provide a "non-safety conforming" individual, potential human targets.....

If he doesn't get it, he is perfectly free to impose his poor choices on others,,,,beyond any of our club's confines what an individual does is not our liability. If I AD and hurt someone at home,,,,,it isn't my club's fault. We can only protect ourselves and use the rule book and training the best we can to minimize risk.

Some folks don't realize those DQ's are your "free lessons". Free meaning, if all you get is DQ'd, nobody gets hurt, you get to pack your $hit up and go home. Most importantly,,,,,everyone else gets to go home too.

I'm in the "someday will DQ" group. Hopefully, I'll never DQ,,,,I strive hard at being safe, but due to the nature of our game, it'll probably happen someday. Whatever the situation,,,I'll learn from it and do my best to never let it happen again.

I've come close and probably should have been on a couple occasions.

Each of those situations are burned into my head and I won't make the same mistakes I did in those situations.....

H4444

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Just got around to this one Paul. My club has a simple rule. 2 DQ's in a years period and you CANNOT compete PERIOD

You must then petition the board and prove you have become competent to be allowed to compete again PERIOD

This works pretty well.

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