Starting With Gun And All Ammo In The Box.

[Flatland Shooter]

The course description includes the start position "with the gun and all ammo in the box".

Its a two magazine stage. What do I do with the 2nd magazine? Put it into a magazine pouch (seems rather slow due to my Coors Light physique)? Or try to carry the 2nd magazine in the left hand slightly altering my grip while shooting?

Tried both in dry fire this evening, but what really works in a match?

Bill

p.s. Wrapping a flexible magnet around the forearm is a neat idea but didn't seem to work. Needs a stronger magnet. (Naw, didn't really try this, but the thought crossed my mind.)

[38supPat]

Hmmm...rare earth magnet....my wife sells them, it could probably grip the mag from the other side of your arm ...maybe I'll have some surgically implanted in strategic places...lol

I have heard of magnets in pockets etc. being used, but I think I'd just carry it.

[jasmap]

It really depends on the stage. Will you be coming back by the box? How many rounds do you have to fire before you move (i.e. can you do the mag change there?)? Can you shoot as well carrying the mag? Practice putting the mag in the mag pouch every time you dry fire. Also, is it a high-cap or a Single Stack mag? I have seen GM's (Todd Jarrett for one) put a Single Stack mag in their mouth instead of wasting time on the mag pouch. Just some ideas.

[Flatland Shooter]

It looks like once you leave the box you won't be coming back unless you really screw up! And you wil be several yards from the box before your first shot.

Looks like I need to carry magazine No. 2 with me, so I'm looking for the best way to do it. And if I were to carry my Para magazine in my mouth, lets just say I really don't want anyone, even my dentist, dremeling my pearly whites.

The magnet in the shirt pocket may show promise, but for now I'll continue a little dry fire practice with the spare mag in my weak hand.

Thanks for the input.

Bill

[uscbigdawg]

Well since I primarily shoot Open division, and get 27-29 in the big stick, I doubt I'll need to worry about extra mags. That said, if I was shooting Limited (20+1) and it necessitated more than that, I'd probably go for the back pocket of my shorts or if feeling GM-ish, position the extra mag so that right hand got the pistol, left hand got the mag (index finger on the spine, etc.) and did a "reverse reload" and put the mag in my first position mag holder, and then engage the stage.

The back pocket is definitely safer for me, but then I tend to wear baggier clothes.

Whatever you do, it'll definitely be better to be smooth in the beginning rather than rushed and place it where you can still engage the stage. I do not believe holding on to the mag WHILE shooting is going to be the best plan.

If shooting L-10 or Production, I'd definitely take the time to put probably the 2 extra mags I'd 'need' into mag holders.

Rich

[shred]

Sounds like you can't do it, but in cases where you can shoot near the mags, it always seems better to shoot, reload out of the box, then carry on instead of trying to stuff a mag back into the pouch.

If you have to go somewhere first, slap one in the gun, grab the other and pouch it on the way.

If you want to take along a 'just-in-case' mag, think hard about what not-having it will cost you. In many cases it's a win to maybe possibly take one miss or poor hit somewhere instead of a sure-thing couple seconds fishing for mags. That got me at the WS-- spent two ot three seconds grabbing a mag I didn't use, and one miss was less than 2 seconds on that stage.

[Flatland Shooter]

Sounds like you can't do it, but in cases where you can shoot near the mags, it always seems better to shoot, reload out of the box, then carry on instead of trying to stuff a mag back into the pouch.

If you have to go somewhere first, slap one in the gun, grab the other and pouch it on the way.

If you want to take along a 'just-in-case' mag, think hard about what not-having it will cost you. In many cases it's a win to maybe possibly take one miss or poor hit somewhere instead of a sure-thing couple seconds fishing for mags. That got me at the WS-- spent two ot three seconds grabbing a mag I didn't use, and one miss was less than 2 seconds on that stage.

Starting the course with my big stick (25 rounds reliably.) leaves me one round short unless I do not engage one of the two twisters. Both are disappearing targets, so a miss will score as NPM.

I figure I will need to move at least 3 yards before my first shot, so I tried picking up the magazine and running from the kitchen into the living room while inserting magazine no. 2 into its pouch. Doesn't seem to cost me much time. (I run real slow!)

Once I see the actual course layout I'll better determine how I want to shoot it. But thanks to everyone's input and a little dry fire practice this evening, I have a reasonable knowledge of my limitations.

Thanks.

Bill

FYI, here is the stages we will be shooting. Stage 5 is the one we are discussing.

http://www.texassouthsection.com/IZStages_12-06.pdf

[uscbigdawg]

After seeing the stage, I'll take the NPM's.

Rich

ETA: Finishing on one or the other disappearing target and thus running the gun dry on whatever I didn't use. Big thing is making your shots on those poppers and partial targets.

Edited December 10, 2006 by uscbigdawg

[Flatland Shooter]

After seeing the stage, I'll take the NPM's.

I think you are right. It looks like possibly a 6.5 HF stage (0.154 seconds/point). So if passing on one of the disappearing targets will save me more than 1.54 seconds (10 points x 0.154 seconds/point), my score improves.

Again, will look at the course on the ground and see just how macho I feel in the morning.

Bill

[Crusher]

Try stuffing the mag (spare) in in your waist (belt), you may have to losen your rig a bit but with a velcro 2 piece (CR or Safariland) it is fairly fast to secure a spare or two with this method as opposed to finding a specific mag pouch on the belt. This method also allows a full tilt run to the gun.

Practice it a few times with a par set for a flat out run to the gun without storing any mag and then pick up the spare and see if you can hit the par time set. I'll bet you can

[uscbigdawg]

After seeing the stage, I'll take the NPM's.

I think you are right. It looks like possibly a 6.5 HF stage (0.154 seconds/point). So if passing on one of the disappearing targets will save me more than 1.54 seconds (10 points x 0.154 seconds/point), my score improves.

Again, will look at the course on the ground and see just how macho I feel in the morning.

Bill

The deciding factor wasn't so much your round count availability as much as it was that the gun starts unloaded. So, you're going to have to load a mag and charge the gun. About the time this is done, you can be up on either the far right or left target and engaging the same array. Just makes more sense for NPM's. Shoot clean on the partials and hit the transitions HARD. You get to the last position and fully engage that swinger.

Can't remember off the top of my head if you can be hit with FTE on a disappearing target. I don't think so, but am a little tired to look it up. If so, throw one round before or after the partial on the left (if you go that way first).

Rich

[Flatland Shooter]

Can't remember off the top of my head if you can be hit with FTE on a disappearing target. I don't think so, but am a little tired to look it up.

Its covered by Rule 9.9.2. By my interpretation, if at least a portion of the highest scoring area is not visible, no failure to shoot at or miss penalties will be incurred.

Depending on the distances involved, saving one of the disappearing targets for last shells may add to my time. Twenty points for all A's on both targets x 0.154 seconds/point = 3.08 seconds.

Not grabbing and stashing a second magazine, moving forward while charging the gun and skipping a reload can easily save me that 3.08 seconds.

But like they say, looks good on paper. Now to see how it works on the ground. If nothing else, I enjoyed the strategy discussions.

Good night all.

Bill

Edited December 10, 2006 by Flatland Shooter

[uscbigdawg]

Bill,

I'd fully engage one. It'd be the target I probably finish on. I'd pass on the first one though (in the first array I engage).

Rich

[Flatland Shooter]

Bill,

I'd fully engage one. It'd be the target I probably finish on. I'd pass on the first one though (in the first array I engage).

Rich

If I'm hitting my targets and poppers, a good idea. If I'm having problems, I'll need to slow down and conserve bullets for the required hits.

Bill

[uscbigdawg]

Yeah and that little extra time of being smooth and accurate is worth more than having that extra mag.

Rich

[Flexmoney]

For me...

When faced with something you haven't practiced (a distraction from the shooting), almost always...get back into your default mode.

Here, that would likely mean stowing your spare mag in it's pouch. Which is the way you've always done it. You know how to put mags in there, and how to get them out.

You might try something else and end up being a hero...or a zero.

Skipping one of the DT's leaves you with 24 shots...and you have 25 in the gun. With 6 mini-poppers, is that a safe bet for you?

To do something "different" you need to be able to go at it with the confidence that you will nail it. (It's not sounding like you've found that yet.)

[jasmap]

And you may have seen the stage but if you haven't.......NEVER trust the stage diagram. They are always different when you get there.

[chrisa006]

At the limited nationals this year we had a stage with a similar start. most folks put three mags in the box but only took two. The easiest way I found was to put 2 mags side by side slightly staggered, bullet heads up. Grab both weak hand with index finger between them. On the way to first firing position stow the foward/closer mag in pouch than load and shoot. The 3rd mag was left just if all went wrong.

[wide45]

At the limited nationals this year we had a stage with a similar start. most folks put three mags in the box but only took two. The easiest way I found was to put 2 mags side by side slightly staggered, bullet heads up. Grab both weak hand with index finger between them. On the way to first firing position stow the foward/closer mag in pouch than load and shoot. The 3rd mag was left just if all went wrong.

That is what I did. I put 4 mags in the box, but just grabbed 2. Some of the guys I was shooting with stowed an extra mag, that they never used.