Mo Hepworth Posted December 6, 2006 Share Posted December 6, 2006 Article in Jan 07 edition of G & A. Good articles about Jeff Cooper. Good articles about XD and Glock maintenance and a good article about USP for IDPA use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted December 6, 2006 Share Posted December 6, 2006 Article in Jan 07 edition of G & A. Good articles about Jeff Cooper. Good articles about XD and Glock maintenance and a good article about USP for IDPA use. The article on Jeff was very good... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdmoore Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 Article in Jan 07 edition of G & A. Good articles about Jeff Cooper. Good articles about XD and Glock maintenance and a good article about USP for IDPA use. This should be an interesting sell. I think I've seen exactly one used locally, and I believe the shooter switched after a spell. Second hand knowledge has that the triggers aren't competition worthy? I'd actually guess it's a combination between price vs popularity vs no sponsership of shooters vs no smith who specializes in competition triggers vs fewer accesories ... There was 1 of ~300 shooters who used one at the nat's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 Article in Jan 07 edition of G & A. Good articles about Jeff Cooper. Good articles about XD and Glock maintenance and a good article about USP for IDPA use. This should be an interesting sell. I think I've seen exactly one used locally, and I believe the shooter switched after a spell. Second hand knowledge has that the triggers aren't competition worthy? I'd actually guess it's a combination between price vs popularity vs no sponsership of shooters vs no smith who specializes in competition triggers vs fewer accesories ... There was 1 of ~300 shooters who used one at the nat's How does that saying go: You cannot make a silk purse from a sows ear.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
austinkroe Posted December 8, 2006 Share Posted December 8, 2006 How does that saying go: You cannot make a silk purse from a sows ear.... So you can't make silk purses out of glocks but what about HKs. couldnt resist I shoot a USP in idpa for CDP and it does quite well. Bruce Grey does work on HKs last time I checked and the factory match trigger is plenty good for me. I see no reason why a USP couldnt do well in IDPA indian arrow thingy again. I can shoot the snot out of mine. I shot my first sub2.5 all As bill drill with that gun. I think you dont see them in the sport often is that not many people buy USPs and Hk doesnt exactly market to the sport or civilians very well my $.02 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
et45 Posted December 8, 2006 Share Posted December 8, 2006 The cost of spare mags is a draw back for the USP .45 also.You can find the 10 rd mags at CDNN for $20 but the full caps will run you $50 plus shipping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mo Hepworth Posted December 8, 2006 Author Share Posted December 8, 2006 I use my stainless USP 9mm with fibre optic adjustables and match trigger with grip tape in production division for IPSC. The DA takes practice to get used to, but I hardly notice it now. The SA is around 3 lbs with the match trigger and some use. I imagine in USPSA the trigger pull is lower as some folks put the wolf hammer spring in (not allowed in IPSC). Good Sights, reliable, good trigger pull, and reliable. Did I mention reliable...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted December 8, 2006 Share Posted December 8, 2006 How does that saying go: You cannot make a silk purse from a sows ear.... So you can't make silk purses out of glocks but what about HKs. couldnt resist I shoot a USP in idpa for CDP and it does quite well. Bruce Grey does work on HKs last time I checked and the factory match trigger is plenty good for me. I see no reason why a USP couldnt do well in IDPA indian arrow thingy again. I can shoot the snot out of mine. I shot my first sub2.5 all As bill drill with that gun. I think you dont see them in the sport often is that not many people buy USPs and Hk doesnt exactly market to the sport or civilians very well my $.02 What is your draw, shoot one, reload, shoot one time with your pistol...that is what would keep me from buying one.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe D Posted December 8, 2006 Share Posted December 8, 2006 That and the high bore axis like a Sig has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
austinkroe Posted December 8, 2006 Share Posted December 8, 2006 What is your draw, shoot one, reload, shoot one time with your pistol...that is what would keep me from buying one.. Using my IDPA gear including the vest at a 7yd target. 1.5 for the draw 1.5-1.75 on the reload. Reload is that long cause I only load one in the gun so I go to slide lock a la IDPA reload rules. Times are the same with my STI ESP/Limited gun. I am not smooth enough with my technique that my equipment matters yet. I am partial to the USP mag release though. I think it is just as fast for me as my STI but safer in general because I am forced to use my trigger finger to release. I know it has a high bore axis. However, I still think it shoots softer than any SS 1911 I have ever fired. JoeD makes a point for me, Ernest Langdon won the Nats CDP a couple of years ago with a Sig. High bore axis doesnt matter as much as everyone wants it to esp. in IDPA. Buying mags is no big deal. I have paid more for STI mags but the thing is the HK mags always fun flawless. With enough practice any gun(with in reason and rules) can be seriously competative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mo Hepworth Posted December 9, 2006 Author Share Posted December 9, 2006 What is your draw, shoot one, reload, shoot one time with your pistol...that is what would keep me from buying one.. Using my IDPA gear including the vest at a 7yd target. 1.5 for the draw 1.5-1.75 on the reload. Reload is that long cause I only load one in the gun so I go to slide lock a la IDPA reload rules. Times are the same with my STI ESP/Limited gun. I am not smooth enough with my technique that my equipment matters yet. I am partial to the USP mag release though. I think it is just as fast for me as my STI but safer in general because I am forced to use my trigger finger to release. I know it has a high bore axis. However, I still think it shoots softer than any SS 1911 I have ever fired. JoeD makes a point for me, Ernest Langdon won the Nats CDP a couple of years ago with a Sig. High bore axis doesnt matter as much as everyone wants it to esp. in IDPA. Buying mags is no big deal. I have paid more for STI mags but the thing is the HK mags always fun flawless. With enough practice any gun(with in reason and rules) can be seriously competative. exactly,...it is not the gear, but the shooter and how much they practice. I like using my trigger finger so much to press the mag release, that I set up my STI Edge with a Mitchell right side mag release. Finger out of the trigger guard, press mag release,.....no AD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe D Posted December 9, 2006 Share Posted December 9, 2006 Not trying to be negative, but the high bore axis comes into play for the average shooter, not the super stars. The HKs and Sigs are much more difficult for the average shooter to master. Someone posted a video of one of the name brand shooters blasting away with either a Sig or HK. Lots of muzzle flip. Guess the point I am trying to make is there are more user friendly guns available.... Glock or 1911. Could be why those two "own" IDPA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mayonaise Posted December 11, 2006 Share Posted December 11, 2006 (edited) I'm with Joe. I don't like the high bore axis either. That doesn't mean I couldn't learn to adapt. I just don't really like them. I think they are great service weapons, just not my cup of tea. BTW Ernie won shooting a lightened steel 229 which is already out of production since his exit from Sig I believe. If you ever shot a steel 229 they are boat anchors. Along with Ernie's gunsmithing abilities with the trigger and his obvious shooting abilities it came as no surprise that he can drive that snot out of that gun. Joe, I see S&W making significant inroads on IDPA much faster than expected. Though I don't see myself dumping my G17 for one anytime soon. I need another platform and all that goes with it like another hole in the head. It might be worth it if I had girlie hands though. Edited December 11, 2006 by Mayonaise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Watson Posted December 11, 2006 Share Posted December 11, 2006 That article was just advertising for H&K. It does not describe anything I would want to try to shoot or expect to do well with. I have more trouble with the lugeroid grip angle and mystery trigger of a Glock than I do a high bore axis gun. I am currently working with a P226. Doubt I can beat Joe but maybe I can keep up with Audrey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted December 11, 2006 Share Posted December 11, 2006 That article was just advertising for H&K. It does not describe anything I would want to try to shoot or expect to do well with.I have more trouble with the lugeroid grip angle and mystery trigger of a Glock than I do a high bore axis gun. I am currently working with a P226. Doubt I can beat Joe but maybe I can keep up with Audrey. If the trigger is not enough, I see about 3 inches of slide with the original grip angle... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
19852 Posted December 13, 2006 Share Posted December 13, 2006 Bruce Gray speaks with regard to bore axisMy Webpage Oh well didn't work. His point was it did not as much difference as some say. He did not like USP's because of the recoil buffer, changed the timing of the slide return. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted December 13, 2006 Share Posted December 13, 2006 BTW Ernie won shooting a lightened steel 229 which is already out of production since his exit from Sig I believe. Actually, Ernie won CDP with a stainless P220 .45. I know because I interviewed him about the experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mo Hepworth Posted December 14, 2006 Author Share Posted December 14, 2006 BTW Ernie won shooting a lightened steel 229 which is already out of production since his exit from Sig I believe. Actually, Ernie won CDP with a stainless P220 .45. I know because I interviewed him about the experience. ie: it is the shooter, not the gun IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Watson Posted December 14, 2006 Share Posted December 14, 2006 I agree for the top end where practice and technique make the pro shooters worth their pay. And maybe for the low end where all the beginner needs is something reliable he can start to learn with. But for those of us in the vast middle ground, a better gun IS a help toward better times and scores. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tactical Timmy Posted December 18, 2006 Share Posted December 18, 2006 I've been shooting with my USP 9 in IDPA for the last 2 years. Ive put over 50000 rounds through the gun and it is still going strong. The only work ive had to do is change the extractor and spring ( which sucked) because it cost me 40 bucks for that but oh well. THe one thing I dont like about HK is that if you need any parts or anything from HK it will take forever and cost a fortune, but still not as expensive as my STI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooter Posted December 19, 2006 Share Posted December 19, 2006 Here's the fixed link previously posted. http://sigforum.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/430601935/m/353108186 I heard this 2nd hand, but shortly after John Flentz tried shooting for HK, he was quoted saying "Only God and Bruce Gray can shoot HK pistols well in competition." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe D Posted December 19, 2006 Share Posted December 19, 2006 (edited) Guess you guys did not have the same college professor I did. Remember him? The funny old Greek guy. He kept spouting off something about "Give me a lever long enough, a place to stand, and I can move the earth". Seems like his name was Archimedes. The bore axis is the lever. The higher it is the more the gun will flip. Edited December 19, 2006 by Joe D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe D Posted December 19, 2006 Share Posted December 19, 2006 Jim, you may be in more trouble. I plan on sending Audrey to the Universal Shooting Academy this spring or have her spend some time with Dave Sevigny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Watson Posted December 19, 2006 Share Posted December 19, 2006 Well, Joe, I am signed up for a class with Bruce Gray. He built it, I hope he can teach me how to drive it. And to think, a guy told me yesterday that selection of gun and gear according to division did not matter because he "only competes against himself" so it did not matter that he was in over his head. It was for a rifle match but comparable to shooting a single stack in IPSC Open. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted December 19, 2006 Share Posted December 19, 2006 I've seen a few shooters with those "high bore axis" guns. They seem to shoot fine with the mousefart targets loads we all use at Minor Power Factor. Joe, did you prof. add a few words there? (I think the lever was implied, not stated in the quote ? ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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