40 Cal Open Gun

[Calamity Jane]

I'm trying to get into the Open game. I want to shoot open to improve skills for my limited shooting. I want to shoot the dot to learn speed, quicker transitions etc. Plus have a whole bunch of fun. I'm considering building. As you know building requires TIME and PATIENCE. I'm not very good with either.

Why can't I stick a CMore scope and a comp on the end of my STI 40 cal limited gun and call it a day???

Edited December 6, 2006 by Calamity Jane

[38supPat]

No reason at all, In fact why not just put a C-more and be done with it? Most of what you want to learn from open has to do with the sighting not recoil. If you're not worried about being competitive and are using it as a learning experience, drill for a mount and go for it.

Besides if you get a full on .38/9mm top end and C-more, you'll enjoy it so much you won't want to go back to Limited

[yoshidaex]

IMO you'll be giving up round count to the 9mm/38 super shooters. and in the long run you'll end up spending more money if you go the open 40 route and decide down the road you want to switch to .355/.356 open. just dive right in . Like Pat said, i'm sure you'll enjoy it. I'm still holding out until the bitter end............well at least till i get classified in Limited .

[ChuckS]

Jane,

Due to various reasons, I run an open .40. .40 Open has been discussed in the following threads (and probably others):

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=28666

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=28747

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=25644

As you will see the big limitations are round count in the mags and choice of projectiles. The good side is you don't have invest in all new mags and all the stuff for you reloading press. Beven Grams made master shooting .40 so, you might not win the nats but it may take a while to get to the point where the gun is the only problem.

You should also search the forums for the Docter vs. C-More discussion. The docter will allow you to zero the dot to the fitted slide and remove the whole assembly and return the gun to limited in a minute without having to re-zero the dot when you go back to open. It also puts the dot about where your iron sights are so it eases the transition back and forth.

PM me if you have any questions. I don't want to repeat all the pros and cons that are discussed in the links above.

Later,

Chuck

[Alan Meek]

Actually giveing up two rounds is not as big of a deal as some might think. I shot a .40 open for 12 years in a Caspian Hi-cap. Beven Grams also has shot a .40 open gun.

If you do the .40 open get a 170mm mag and the only time you would be at a disadvantage is in a stand and shoot 28 round stage. Oh wait we are not supposed to stand in one spot and shoot 28 rounds.

If you go with the .40 and put a comp on it WWB 165 gr .40 ammo should work just fine.

Alan

[Chris Keen]

Lots of people shoot 40 open. I have, John Fadorsan does (and made Master with it).

I dont know about just changing top ends. But I agree that you can just stick a C-More or a J-Point on and have fun. You are already making major with your 40 loads so that wont be an issue. The recoil impulse should be the same. However for full compensator benefit, lighter bullets and slower powder should be in order.

It sounds like you are ready to make the move (this coming spring?) so make the necessary changes, but get started building a new DEDICATED open gun in the mean time, and by the end of the year you should have 2 very nice guns (LTD & OPEN)

If I were you, I would just put a J-Point on so you dont have to drill your frame. You can get a dovetail mount / adapter and always return to your original Limited config. down the road.

[Carlos]

Calamity Jane - another big plus for many who want to go the "40 open" route is that you never have to reload your own ammo. Almost all commercial factory 40 makes major. There are virtually no sources of factory .38 super or equiv.

For those who are not yet ready to jump into reloading, 40 is a good option.

BTW, SJC is working on a .40 for factory ammo.

[BigDave]

Jane,

As the others have said, just slap a C-more on your blaster and go to work or a dovetail mount for a Doctor or J-Point. Acutally, if you go that route, you're shooting Modified (I think). Look here - for $300 you can have a dot and mount, and not have to drill your frame.

Either way, the point is to push yourself and use the dot as a training aid - right? Run that rig with your 140's and really push to stay with the open shooters. Will you keep up? Maybe, maybe not? But that's not really the point.

Dave

[XRe]

What happened to that .38 Super-ish gun you had, Jane??

As a learning device, a dot on a limited gun isn't a bad deal... If that's your intent (shoot something w/ a dot until you get something else), I could get on board with that. Truly, learning to follow and time the dot is the biggest learning curve in getting to open...

But, frankly, for a long term solution - in terms of recoil performance and profile, capacity (and capacity per size of magazine), cost of ammo, relative safety of ammo per performing load when using appropriate cases (geez, here come the flames...), etc, the Super-ish gun is going to be superior. Is it a huge difference? Maybe not huge. Is it enough to make .40 Open something that someone does just to prove that they can, but not be a serious contender overall?? It would definitely appear to be so.

Just because people have made Master with it doesn't mean its the right solution - TGO could probably make Master with a J-frame S&W in Limited, if he wanted to...

What I've said might be unpopular with those shooting .40 Open, but... so be it. When the top dogs start shooting it, maybe I'll change my mind

[BSeevers]

It can work out but its a little more than, just sticking a comp on the end of your Limited gun. You might find a drop in comp kit but I find you still need to "Drop in on your gunsmith" to make it work right. Drilling holes for a c-more is a skilled task. After you pay for all this i'll bet for another 1K you could get a real nice used Open gun. I sold mine with a couple mags for $1500 and it was a giveaway. New barrel/comp/grip. It works 100%. They are out there all the time.

PS Shooting Open to improve really requires dedication and months of practice "before" you start to improve. Most are challenged to find the dot on a draw and dry fire will fix that but you must walk before you can run.

Some are going to chime in and say "I always fit my barrels and they work fine" Well do you?

[Alan Meek]

Dave,

Not to flame, but the top dogs did not become the top dogs solely on the caliber of their gun, but on the caliber of themselves as a competitor.

[XRe]

Not to flame, but the top dogs did not become the top dogs solely on the caliber of their gun, but on the caliber of themselves as a competitor.

Alan, that's absolutely true. And one of the hallmarks of a high caliber competitor is the removal of any potential obstructions between the competitor and winning - and that includes not saddling themselves with equipment that might prove to be less advantageous....

[Calamity Jane]

PS Shooting Open to improve really requires dedication and months of practice "before" you start to improve. Most are challenged to find the dot on a draw and dry fire will fix that but you must walk before you can run.

Precious Bill,

Ofcourse I know that shooting Open to improve requires dedication and months of practice! That is one reason why I'm so anxious to have a gun NOW!! My dry fire season started Dec 1st and I have the next 3 months planned with dry fire and live fire practices. I need a gun with a dot on it and I don't have one. GRRRRR I'm scrambling to find something that works because I'm already behind in my training plan!

I'm flattered to think that you thought I would work on my gun by myself. I have a smith

PS For those of you wondering...I had a used 38 super comp purchased....but it didn't work out.

[Cameron]

There was a frame in the classifieds still on the waiting list for Bedell!!!!

Build yourself a new gun, or possibly another used purchase, but I say leave the Limited gun as is.

You deserve a dedicated open piece!

[uscbigdawg]

Personally, I'd get a dedicated Open gun used and go from there.

Rich

[slusher]

i shot a 40 open para for a year untill mike voigt finished my super/ gun shot flat useing 135 rainier bullets and n340 as for round count there is always some place to reload as was told to me by mike v. my 2 cents

[blue edge]

Jane, I know who you are!!! I know how you are ( well a little ) !!!!!

I think you allready know the right way to do this project. You may be behind on training,but far ahead of the game.

Good Luck Kevin

[yoshidaex]

How about finding someone with the setup you want and see if its something you'd want.... I'm sure someone from here will let you take a test drive .

[Chris Keen]

Personally, I'd get a dedicated Open gun used and go from there.

Rich

Personally ................. I'd agree!

[Harmon]

my opinion, a full size major 9 gun is hard to beat... dave and other like the super-comp/tj rounds and i do too.. but i enjoy the low cost of 9mm brass and will give up some powder choices to keep from having to chase the little pieces of "starline gold" around.

when i shot a supercomp gun, i also ran a club match once a month. i managed to pick up approx 500 piece of brass a month not counting mine and the regular supers which i traded to another shooter who shoots super. in the end, supercomp or major 9, the big expense is powder and bullets not brass..but the lower cost of brass helps me alot with 9mm.

Harmon

[XRe]

in the end, supercomp or major 9, the big expense is powder and bullets not brass..

And depending on the powder... the bullets are far more expensive than any other component, easily making up 2/3 the cost of my reloads...

[ipscbob]

my opinion, a full size major 9 gun is hard to beat... dave and other like the super-comp/tj rounds and i do too.. but i enjoy the low cost of 9mm brass and will give up some powder choices to keep from having to chase the little pieces of "starline gold" around.

when i shot a supercomp gun, i also ran a club match once a month. i managed to pick up approx 500 piece of brass a month not counting mine and the regular supers which i traded to another shooter who shoots super. in the end, supercomp or major 9, the big expense is powder and bullets not brass..but the lower cost of brass helps me alot with 9mm.

Harmon

I agree, go with Major 9mm if you are extremely cost constrained but stick with 38supercomp if not. Lots less effort required to keep it running 100%. Look at what the top guys ran at the nationals this year.......

[Flyin40]

I'll chime in on this one

First I'll say hey to everyone, I been lurking here now and then since nationals, not shooting or dryfiring. Making myself stay away to give myself a long mental break. I didn't feel I needed it and didn't want to but its needed.

After looking back over the last 2 yrs shooting 40cal open there really no difference in 40vs38. The biggest difference is capacity, I get 27rds vs 28-30 for a 38. Its a very, very small difference. I shot probably 13 majors this yr and maybe 3 times, 4 tops where the extra rounds would of helped out of all matches this yr. So probably out of a 200 plus stages I shot at matches this yr 3 stages, capacity would of made a difference. But if your trying to win nationals or the top 5% in this sport that extra capacity really matters. The 2nd thing is availabilty of light bullets. I shoot 135gr Rainiers and love them. I push them just under 1300 fps, around 1275 and don't have an issue. There aren't alot of companies that make 135gr bullets, probably about 5 or so. Powder is no issue and 40 brass is dirt cheap. I paid $150 for 10,000 this yr, polished. Its shoots flat, no doubt about that. Also it is really nice reloading and not having to change any dies. Also want to mention that to get 27rds the tube must be tuned, thats 26 in the mag and 1 in the chamber.

Having said that I would tell you to get a 38 super if possible. The only reason I went to 40 was lack of funds intially. I had 2 topends and just switched them. After awhile it becomes a pain because you have to zero your gun back in everytime you switch from open to limited if you use a frame mounted sight. Eventually I had another bottom end made so I have two separate guns.

So my question would be this, Are you having a seperate topend made??? or planning on turning your limited topend into a open topend. If you having a seperate topend made just have it done in 38super. 40 and 38 use the same ejector. You could switch topends and just take the c-more off and go shoot.

If your making your limited gun into a open gun you can do it pretty cheap. C-more mount, holes drilled, comp/slide gap set. Also depends of you barrel setup. You might need a 5.5 threaded barrel which will up the price quite a bit, barrel cost then barrel fit.

I went through Gans and really enjoyed his work. Best turnaround time I have seen yet also. Drop him an email and get a quote.

When it comes down to it its not the gun at all, its the shooter behind it. After thinking about it this yr I can't see spending the money for a 38super just to gain 3 rounds. $3000 for a new gun, that would be $1000 per round plus I would pay a ton more for brass. Just not enough of an advantage to make the switch. Plus guys really hate getting beat by a 40 open gun.......

Flyin40

[Chris Keen]

Good to see you back, John.

[rwmagnus]

Flyin40 what to give up your brass source cause that's a smokin deal.?I use 9's and 40's and can't even come close to that deal.