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New Multigun Rule Proposal


Jim Norman

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Lets do this point by point.

Jim, i'm not saying I didn't ask for the rule. I was refering to your last statment, that you wanted multi gun to comply at ALL levels.

True, to a point. What I would like is for us to be able to mandate a reload. Occasionally.

When I read your initial remarks, albeit several posts earlier. I thought your intention was to get your local shooters to do reloads. My remarks were aimed at that level,(local).

Yes, but what would be so bad about ALLOWING the course designers to insert a required reload? Keep in mind, I am not asking for a reload that is mandated as after 10 rounds, or at the door. I am asking only that at some point after the start signal, but before engaging the last target. I don’t care if at eh buzzer, you drop a fully loaded mag, reload and start shooting or you reload at the last position, or anywhere in between. This is still free style. We mandate all sorts of restrictions on free style. You can’t shoot from anywhere, only from within the FFZ, you can’t load more than 10 in L10 or production, Revolver allows you to only shoot 6 regardless of the capacity.

I personally feel the current method of heads up shooting, and lack of classes works. [/

Agreed, we shoot this way, although we do pay out on a modified Lewis system.

If you're trying to get people to utilize certain skill sets (reloading) with the rifle, it seems to me that if those people want to do better at matches, then they will do that skill set on thier own. Even owning a Beta mag, doesn't mean you will use it all the time. I just shot the AMU match and never once used my Beta, because there were places that I could load to new 30 rounder, and not lose time. I recall seeing one shooter use a Beta in the match, and that was on a 20 round speed shoot, that was kinda funny to watch, but I understood his reasons.

People tend to practice the skills that they need at a match. If we don’t require a reload with a rifle, why should we practice it? People get really good reloading their shotguns, why? Because they HAVE TO!

Requiring mandatory reloads in a field course, (excuse me if thats not proper verbage) is just dumb (IMO). The place for those is in speed shoots, and thats why those are used so heavily for classifiers.

Ah, we don’t have speed shoots anymore, we have “Short Courses”. Besides, we can’t mandate a reload here either, unless it is a “Standards” course. We will have to disagree that a required reload is “Dumb” I feel it is a part of shooting and a skill that has a place in a match. True enough there are other rule sets that are available besides USPSA, but USPSA is what we are promoting here. There are some good things out there that we could use, there are fun challenging courses of fire that we cannot use because the rules we shoot under in USPSA don’t allow for them. I have shoot matches where you had a staged pistol, slide locked back, two magazines with a total of 14 rounds between them, 6 & 8 as I remember, you shot your rifle and shotgun, then recovered the pistol from a “body”, loaded and engaged 6 targets with two rounds each. You didn’t know which mag had what number of rounds, you either reloaded at 6 or 8 rounds from slidelock. Fair since everyone had to do it. Realistic in that a recovered gun might not have a full load and recovered mags might also be short. We can’t do this in USPSA 3-gun.

My opinion is that a lot of people are only interested in high speed shooting, not in their overall skill sets. I guess a good question would be; Do we agree that this type of stage might be fun? Do we agree that it would test your abilities? Same goes for my idea of a mandated reload. Would being told that at some point, your choice, in the COF, you had to reload be such a bad thing? We aren’t mandating a reload at slidelock, or with retention or reloading behind cover. All I am asking is that we be ALLOWED to require the shooter to reload at some point, again at his discretion.

Jim

Having required reloads in a standards as a skills test makes sense. Requiring a tac load behind cover can even make sense depending upon the context. Arbitrarily requiring a reload somewhere in the course of fire whether you need to or not just doesn't make sense.

I'm not sure that I buy the arguement of required reloads being needed in field courses as skills tests that might be otherwise neglected. It seems more like an excuse to limit the magazine capacity by divisions. Clearly, after all the dicussion and rule references, mandated reloads are not compatible with "freestyle", so what's the answer? Limiting the equipment avilable to different divisions. I hope I'm wrong.

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Jim, as the match director for a couple of major matches I ALLOW you to do it! See, now your good to go :lol:

In all seriousness, I say just do it, if they want to shoot they will. If they don't they won't! Don't let a few silly rules ruin a good time. Let the USPSA run thier thing and IMGA run thiers, and just enjoy. I have forced many a reload and the matches I run still do and guess what they still fill right up to the limit. Half the guys whinning here don't 3-gun, and those that do, I have seen at IMGA matches so I guess they don't care either. I have a novel idea... let's limit this to having fun and you can decide your own capacity for that! :D KURT

Kurt, basically that is what we will do. I have tried to bend USPSA 3-gun to fit the world of 3-gun as I know it, NC Recon, Klye Lamb, CTI, OBCATS. With imput from those on our team that have shot SOF and other western 3-gun matches.

We try to keep it freestyle, but also we tend to force either certain positions or skills to be used. The horse is offiaclly dead. Next year's match will run under modified rules to allow us to do it our way. Those that come already know what we do and enjoy it so I don't expect a large fall off. Also, Since there are no classifiers, we don't have a beef with USPSA shooters not getting credit.

Thank you all for a good time. I am ready to tilt my next windmill.

Jim

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Jim,

You say when and where and I'll be there. A match should be where we have to test everything. Practice is practice. Matches are where we put all that practice to work and find out what we need to work on. Reloads, position shooting, etc. (I'm for more weak hand shots with the rifle!)

Rich

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  • 6 years later...

There are no rifle classifiers.

The are no shotgun classifiers.

There are no multi-gun classifiers.

Pistol has classifiers. Even some of them wouldn't be legal under the current rules if they weren't classifiers and didn't have the exemption from Freestyle that classifiers and Standard Exercises have.

If you are shooting SG and shoot a cof that is a pistol classifier, that doesn't make that stage a classifier, it is just another stage.

If you guys are suggesting SG and Rifle classifiers, that is fine. You might be putting the cart before the horse a bit...and that certainly isn't the topic of this discussion.

Slightly off topic, but rather than starting a new thread... Can a USPSA club multi-gun match have a pistol classifier submitted for record like at a regular USPSA club handgun match?

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